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interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: decay
Date: August 28, 2012 07:24AM
[powerpcliberation.blogspot.ca]

This is even more proof that having a GPU with Core Image and Core Animation support is really what makes good Leopard performance. Without GPU hardware support for those built in can't turn off features in 10.5 you have to pay a CPU tax of up to 34%. This is because without CI/CA the OS uses the CPU to emulate the GPU. So anyone not running a Geforce 5200 or higher or a Radeon 9500 or higher under Leopard is literally slowing their CPU down as much as 34% and about 23% on average. The only way to actually disable all the GPU/GUI features in 10.5 that I have found is to have a tower and remove the video card. That means you can only remote into it.

The moral of the story is you're better off running Tiger if you have an unsupported GPU since it doesn't force the GPU features on the OS and CPU unless there is proper hardware support. If you do have GPU support then your 10.5 performance should be just as good if not better. My two daily use Sawtooth both perform slightly better in all aspects on 10.5 and much better in OpenGL related code. A fully capable GPU is literally like an extra CPU in Leopard. In Tiger it's more of a slight benefit.


the blog author is looking for a Linux expert / writer, too.



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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: August 28, 2012 07:31AM
That's why my eMacs and Powerbook are all on Tiger.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 28, 2012 07:33AM
*sigh*



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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 28, 2012 08:59AM
is this article about 5 years too late?
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: August 28, 2012 11:36AM
Explains why my 12" PB can run 10.5 okay.

Also, this is true with many versions of the OS and hardware. Apple is usually very far behind in which generation GPUs it includes. This is one of the reasons I went with a Hac.




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2012 11:37AM by M A V I C.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: silvarios
Date: August 28, 2012 01:29PM
Quote
mattkime
*sigh*

Do you disagree?

This article is still topical as it addresses the increased reliance on GPU acceleration in OS X.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: silvarios
Date: August 28, 2012 01:34PM
Quote
decay
The only way to actually disable all the GPU/GUI features in 10.5 that I have found is to have a tower and remove the video card. That means you can only remote into it.

Running any Mac mini I've ever owned in headless mode results in the acceleration disabling itself automatically. At least in Leopard and Snow Leopard. I don't remember Tiger feeling as sluggish when running headless, but that might be attributed to the decreased reliance on the GPU by the OS rather than acceleration still functioning properly.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: August 28, 2012 02:33PM
I have a G4/400 Sawtooth with 1 GB of RAM running Mac OS X 10.5.8. The system is equipped with a flashed PC version ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB video card driving a 23" Cinema HD at 1920 x 1200/32 bits. The system supports Quartz Extreme and hardware accelerated Core Image.

Performance is satisfactory for normal use (i.e. Web browsing, Mail, office applications, Finder operations, etc.) although most modern video is not playable.

Thirteen years old and 400 MHz! Amazing...
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: silvarios
Date: August 28, 2012 03:23PM
Sorry decay. When I quoted your post, I didn't mean to falsely attribute the reference quote to you.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Buzz
Date: August 28, 2012 04:54PM
Quote
Article Accelerator
I have a G4/400 Sawtooth with 1 GB of RAM running Mac OS X 10.5.8. The system is equipped with a flashed PC version ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB video card driving a 23" Cinema HD at 1920 x 1200/32 bits. The system supports Quartz Extreme and hardware accelerated Core Image.

Performance is satisfactory for normal use (i.e. Web browsing, Mail, office applications, Finder operations, etc.) although most modern video is not playable.

Thirteen years old and 400 MHz! Amazing...

That's more than ample GPU horsepower... it's CPU power that's now lacking, as well as its old age handicapping modern video performance. Keep it away from video, and it'll reach voting age and drinking age, now that it's reached its bar mitzvah. IIRC, isn't that puppy a 2X AGP? and weren't most 9800's 4X AGP, or faster? so did you upclock the Sawtooth's AGP, or downclock the flashed 9800 card? or did they make flashable 2X 9800's on the dark side?

///



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: August 28, 2012 05:09PM
Quote
Buzz
IIRC, isn't that puppy a 2X AGP? and weren't most 9800's 4X AGP, or faster? so did you upclock the Sawtooth's AGP, or downclock the flashed 9800 card? or did they make flashable 2X 9800's on the dark side?

You are correct about the Sawtooth (it's an AGP 2X) but it turns out that there's an easy fix to make that card work on a 2X system: Just tape over a couple of AGP contacts or cut the corresponding circuit traces and the card is good to go. Works like a charm.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2012 05:12PM by Article Accelerator.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 28, 2012 05:33PM
not at all. its annoying that apple doesn't handle this better. there isn't much reason why 10.8 couldn't run on G3 machines.

Quote
silvarios
Quote
mattkime
*sigh*

Do you disagree?

This article is still topical as it addresses the increased reliance on GPU acceleration in OS X.



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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Buzz
Date: August 28, 2012 05:35PM
Sounds, and looks, like you're getting some great mileage out of that old workhorse.



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 28, 2012 05:43PM
I'm still using mikebw's 350mhz Sawtooth. Works like a champ. Excellent design.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 28, 2012 05:44PM
And, as mattkime said, it should run 10.8.

Quote
p8712
I'm still using mikebw's 350mhz Sawtooth. Works like a champ. Excellent design.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 28, 2012 06:09PM
Quote
Speedy
And, as mattkime said, it should run 10.8.

Quote
p8712
I'm still using mikebw's 350mhz Sawtooth. Works like a champ. Excellent design.

I'd settle for snow leopard.
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: Buzz
Date: August 28, 2012 08:03PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
Speedy
And, as mattkime said, it should run 10.8.

Quote
p8712
I'm still using mikebw's 350mhz Sawtooth. Works like a champ. Excellent design.

I'd settle for snow leopard.

I thought the whole dealiemabob w/ going to Snow Leopard was to leave PPC's in the dust... wasn't SL just Leopard for Intel only, w/ a touch of eye candy? Wouldn't 10.6/7/8 need to be rewritten a la 10.4/5 to address whatever it is that PPC does/has that Intel doesn't? Obviously some code-head could do it, but wouldn't that piss off the code daemons and legal beagles at AAPL?

///



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: interesting article on sub-867 MHz G4s and Leopard, GPU
Posted by: silvarios
Date: August 29, 2012 04:09PM
Quote
mattkime
not at all. its annoying that apple doesn't handle this better. there isn't much reason why 10.8 couldn't run on G3 machines.

The lack of PowerPC code would probably be the largest stumbling block. To be fair, G3s won't even work with Leopard, which does target the PowerPC architecture. I'm guessing because of GPU limitations. Interesting tidbit, when Leopard was first announced, G3 machines were listed as compatible for a brief while. Guess Apple changed their minds.

I agree, I wish their was a legacy mode option for newer OSes. If nothing else, being able to keep security patches going forward on older OSes/hardware would be really nice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 04:10PM by silvarios.
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