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OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 07, 2012 06:42PM
Discussions with the neighbor and the owner of the rental have not proven fruitful. The dogs are still being left outside, neglected, and bark at anyone they can. This makes my backyard unusable.

After a long search of the internet I came to the conclusion that no commercially available bark deterrent has enough volume to work. I did buy a small handheld unit that works but only if I am within a few feet of the dog. So I decided to get creative.

I had an old Advent 300 amplifier in my garage, a pair of weather proof radio shack speakers, and an old ipod nano that hasn't been used in years. I downloaded a sound file that is supposed to be annoying to dogs and put it all together on my back patio. Result...dogs and small children REALLY don't like the sound even at half volume.

In my initial thread I stated it wasn't my goal to hurt the dogs. It isn't their fault their owners are neglecting them. So I am not using this to cause any kind of damage to the dogs. It took three short bursts to convince them the other side of their yard was the best place to be and then I turned it off. So far I call that success. We will see if it continues to work in the long run or if they get used to the sound.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 07, 2012 06:50PM
I think I might have to do something similar.

What was the frequency of the tone that you used?
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Psurfer
Date: November 07, 2012 07:19PM
You deserve your peace and quiet. You may want to condition the dogs barking behavior for a week or so using your system regularly, perhaps whenever you go out into your yard. I'd have someone trigger the sound burst -Loudly, for an unambiguous negative reinforcement- while I went out into the yard and waved my arms (or your choice of hand/finger sign...) at the hounds at the same time. The idea being ideally, that you would eventually be able to replace the sound + arm wave, w/ only the arm wave.
Be consistent. Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2012 07:19PM by Psurfer.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 07, 2012 07:42PM
Here is a link to the file I found. I do not know how to test for frequency. I can barely hear it myself but my 8 year old daughter can hear it VERY well.

[dl.dropbox.com]
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 07, 2012 07:55PM
Hmm, Amadeus says that it's a 14 KHz tone.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Michael
Date: November 07, 2012 07:56PM
I can't hear a thing. But, the moment I played it, the cat jumped off the couch and went under the bed.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 07, 2012 08:12PM
It's my understanding that the 20-25 KHz range is ideal for bothering dogs but not humans. Perhaps a better sound file would be even more effective. I might run into trouble with my speakers though if they are not capable of producing that high of sound.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: November 07, 2012 09:52PM
That sound is painful to my ears. It sounds like the ringing after a loud concert.



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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Black
Date: November 07, 2012 10:24PM
Quote
freeradical
Hmm, Amadeus says that it's a 14 KHz tone.

It's a kind of random sequence of tones or tone combinations in the 13-14-15 khz range.




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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: graylocks
Date: November 07, 2012 10:45PM
Quote
lazydays
Here is a link to the file I found. I do not know how to test for frequency. I can barely hear it myself but my 8 year old daughter can hear it VERY well.

[dl.dropbox.com]

interesting. i hear it loud and clear and i have significant hearing loss in my left ear. the loss must not be in that range. i do hear more than one tone, though. don't know if it bothers my pooch as he's asleep in another room.



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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Gilbert
Date: November 07, 2012 10:56PM
This reminds me of one of my favorite podcast episodes - The Portable Dog Killer. It was on a computer security podcast called Security Now a couple of years ago. The device didn't really kill dogs but did drive dogs and birds crazy. It's a long show but great for a good laugh and learning.

[twit.tv]
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Carm
Date: November 07, 2012 11:13PM
Played it a few times and the wife did not like it. I heard it loud and clear. Sleeping dog wasnt affected by it.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 08, 2012 12:19AM
It might depend on how much power is behind it and what the speakers used are capable of. The Advent 300 has 15 watts per channel. Not sure of the specs on the Radio Shack speakers. This setup might produce a profoundly louder sound than playing it through a set of computer speakers though. Perhaps it was the volume rather than the frequency that drove the dogs away. I'll post more later as I'm able to try it more.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: DP
Date: November 08, 2012 07:16AM
Wait a minute-what about contacting the police and animal control in your community? I'm sure there are noise ordinances in your community and if the owners don't respond to violation citations, animal control can remove the dogs.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: November 08, 2012 08:18AM
Wait a minute-what about contacting the police and animal control in your community? I'm sure there are noise ordinances in your community and if the owners don't respond to violation citations, animal control can remove the dogs.

That can be a long and arduous process.

lf the noise can be used to condition the dogs, it might accomplish more than just moving them to the other side of the yard- they just might quite down.

Volume is definitely a factor. Enough volume and the dogs would even hate Moon River.

All of this reminds me of vaguely related things-- kids who were using high pitched Mosquito ringtones because teachers could hear the "Vibrate" mode of cellphones in class but not the Mosquitos.

There was some convenience store that had a problem with kids hanging out so they played Polka music via an outdoor speaker. Problem solved.


It's my understanding that the 20-25 KHz range is ideal for bothering dogs but not humans.

That's just outside the hearing range of most older adults, particularly males. The high end begins to decline in male at about age 25. Women tend to have better hearing longer than men. Even people who can hear that high usually don't hear it as loud/well. So pump it!

Mileage varies greatly, though.




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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 08, 2012 08:53AM
DP, normally I would love to go through animal control but they have no real authority. My mother lived next to a home were the entire back yard had been destroyed by two dogs and only dirt remained. The dogs would throw themselves at the common fence anytime my mother was outside while making noises like a crazed animal. There was feces all over the yard creating a terrible stink. All animal control would do is leave a note on the owners door despite repeated reports from my mother. In the end she was forced to sell her home and move.

I think it is very sad that people will purchase a dog and then abuse it in this way. Nobody wins in this situation.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: November 08, 2012 10:19AM
Interesting. I didn't hear anything from my iMac speakers. Running it through my Kenwood amp and BA speakers, I had to turn up the volume a lot, then heard a faint high pitch to about half way through, then I much louder, lower tone thereafter.

BTW, the iMac generates a grounding hum in my system that my MBP doesn't. Wonder why.

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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: what4
Date: November 08, 2012 10:41AM
We were lucky with the most recent barking dogs. I got the neighbor to introduce us to the dogs, so we befriended them. After that, they came to the fence and wagged their tails instead of barking.

I invested a few bags of dog treats into the befriending.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Psurfer
Date: November 08, 2012 11:09AM
Quote
what4
I invested a few bags of dog treats into the befriending.

-that,s also a good idea I was going to add, but assumed lazydays already determined the dogs to be too territorial for the old treat bribe...
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 08, 2012 11:24AM
My last neighbor had a dog and I tried the befriending method. Unfortunately dogs often have to be on a strict diet or they get the runs and owners don't appreciate that for obvious reasons. My own dog is the same way. So although I was on very good terms with my last neighbor he did ask me not to give his dog treats.

So I shy away from giving the dogs food. We have petted them through the fence but yet they still bark every darn time we go outside.

Update, I tried the sound file again this morning and enjoyed a blissfully quiet time in my back yard as the dogs retreated to the other side of their own yard. I would like to get a sound file in a higher range though as I don't want to bother anyone who has better hearing than myself.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 08, 2012 11:26AM
Btw, my pug can definitely hear the sound and I think it annoys her but doesn't seem to impede normal activities. I think the sound is just "annoying" and the other dogs choose to distance themselves.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 08, 2012 11:28AM
Just get an audio oscillator, and find the best frequency.

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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: norse
Date: November 08, 2012 11:52AM
Quote
freeradical
Just get an audio oscillator, and find the best frequency.

[www.ebay.com]

Find the best frequency for the dog owners!!!!
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: kap
Date: November 08, 2012 11:59AM
At what ranges the sound can damage dogs' hearing?



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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: DRR
Date: November 08, 2012 12:38PM
Quote
kap
At what ranges the sound can damage dogs' hearing?

At all ranges - it's volume, not frequency, that can damage hearing (human and canine.)

According to this, I can't hear anything above 17KHz:

[www.youtube.com]

I'm 37.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: lazydays
Date: November 08, 2012 01:06PM
kap, that is why i was careful to note i only used short bursts. i have no desire to hurt anyone. sustained i am sure it would cause hearing damage.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Michael
Date: November 08, 2012 02:27PM
Quote
DRR
Quote
kap
At what ranges the sound can damage dogs' hearing?

At all ranges - it's volume, not frequency, that can damage hearing (human and canine.)

According to this, I can't hear anything above 17KHz:

[www.youtube.com]

I'm 37.

I couldn't hear any of the lower ones until 200Hz and I peaked out at 12KHz. My poor wife, however, was grimacing at the higher ones until it got to 16KHz and then she couldn't hear any more.

I'm 59 and she's 57.
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Re: OT: barking dog followup
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: November 08, 2012 05:08PM
WRT using those speakers in the yard to ward off the dogs but not annoying everyone else, high frequencies do not spread much, having a narrow dispersion.. This is especially the case if those speakers are single driver, full range units (many outdoor speakers are). This means that the sound is only going in the direction you are pointing them and not spreading out much to the rest of the neighborhood. Same goes for computer speakers (or any speakers). The spreading of sound is inversely proportional to the frequency of the tones and additionally inversely proportional to the size of the driver.

Of course the neighbor behind the dogs in the line of fire can probably hear it too, unless there are some good trees or bushes in the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 05:11PM by Lew Zealand.
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