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Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 20, 2006 08:45PM
I'm doing some advanced planning for my next TV...
Probably a year or so, when a 36"-ish HDTV of some flat form (LCD or Plasma) drops to under $600.

But the whole HD thing has me wondering.
DirecTV has something like 5 HD stations... ( I don't count ESPN or other sports channels), and they cost an additional $9.99 a month...
I don't see spending that in the short term.
I don't get anything "over-the-air" here.
No cable available (hence the DirecTV).

How fast is HD going to be added to, or supplant, "SD" TV?
For the short term, any HDTV I buy will be hooked to my "SD"-only DirecTivo box... as an HD-DirecTivo is another $400, and that $9.99/mo.

For those that have paid more attention to the "HD revolution" than I have... What do you see as the future time-line of HD adoption?



And yes, I've tried Googling the subject... but most of the articles I found are 3-4 or more years old... I'm looking for a more recent perspective, if there is one.


Your thoughts?



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2006 08:46PM by Paul F..
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: August 20, 2006 09:19PM
It's a done deal, HD is here to stay, but the stations have a choice. one big fat HD channel, or they can cut up the big ham into thick juicy ham steaks, or whisper thin sliced ham. Guess which one is happening?
You can't get any OTA HD channels?
Avoid the Plasma sets, they suck power, about 4X the LCD's, as much as a big refrigerator. CRT's have the best power stats, strangely.
Try here to find if there are any HD OTA stations.:
[www.checkhd.com]

BGnR



"Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto! You're beautiful!"
"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 20, 2006 09:54PM
BGnR, where did you hear about CRT's having the best power stats? That's interesting, considering that I've wondered if I had made a good choice with my purchase of a Sony (CRT) a year or two back. I watch HDTV on it with the tuner from the Geeks, and admittedly the picture isn't HDTV, but it's stunning nonetheless (and of course the sound is great). One big concern to me is/was how much juice this bad boy pulls in though. (I've debated getting one of those Kill-a-Watt things to be sure.) If it matters, it's a Sony KV-27FS120... it is Energy Star compliant, for whatever that's worth (probably not much).




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: August 20, 2006 09:58PM
From this PDF PB.:
[www.nrdc.org]

Nice snippet.:
"In its testing of big-screen TVs, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) used a two-minute clip of the hit comedy "Shrek." The results showed considerable variation in power use. Even similar size TVs could consume "drastically different amounts of power" in active mode, the report says. One 50-inch plasma high-definition TV (HDTV) was estimated to use 679 kilowatt-hours of electricity per year. A 32-inch liquid-crystal display with HDTV capability was pegged at 387 kWh per year. By contrast, an older analog 34-inch CRT TV was estimated to use just 209 kWh per year, NRDC tests found."

BGnR



"Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto! You're beautiful!"
"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Don C
Date: August 20, 2006 10:05PM
I've been mostly disappointed by the High Def scene. I bought a Mitsubishi CRT a couple of years ago and find the HD offerings to be less than stellar. Of course, I'm not much of a TV fan to start with, so I guess I'm biased to start with.

PBS shows (e.g. Nova) are nice and football on HD is definitely a SUPER way to watch a game! I used to enjoy Monday Night Football on HD, but I'm not going to pay for the HD version this year, so I'll only be watching an occassional Sunday game (too much to do on Sunday afternoons to sit and watch football, although I could record games and watch them later. Which is to say that if the only thing we watched was HD I could almost trade the set in as unused!
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 20, 2006 10:16PM
Quote
BigGuynRusty
From this PDF PB.:
[www.nrdc.org]

Nice snippet.:
"In its testing of big-screen TVs, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) used a two-minute clip of the hit comedy "Shrek." The results showed considerable variation in power use. Even similar size TVs could consume "drastically different amounts of power" in active mode, the report says. One 50-inch plasma high-definition TV (HDTV) was estimated to use 679 kilowatt-hours of electricity per year. A 32-inch liquid-crystal display with HDTV capability was pegged at 387 kWh per year. By contrast, an older analog 34-inch CRT TV was estimated to use just 209 kWh per year, NRDC tests found."

BGnR

Holy cr@p! I'm really gonna have to get one of these Kill-A-Watt things. I'm still not sure how much it'll help though, because how are you supposed not to watch TV? Or use your computer? Or the AC? etc.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 20, 2006 10:22PM
This area has a total of five channels (four if you don't count PBS) over the air.
I live in a valley, strategically placed to give me the worst possible reception on every one of those channels.
So though theoretically, with enough antenna hardware, I COULD get some form of reception over the air, for practical purposes, no... I really don't.

I have no doubt that HD is here to stay... mainly I'm wondering how FAST HD is going to catch on, at least, peoples opinions on how fast.


And, for power consumption reason, I do lean more towards LCD rather than plasma.. but you never know what the technology might do in the next year.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: August 20, 2006 10:23PM
Quote
PeterB
BGnR, where did you hear about CRT's having the best power stats? That's interesting, considering that I've wondered if I had made a good choice with my purchase of a Sony (CRT) a year or two back. I watch HDTV on it with the tuner from the Geeks, and admittedly the picture isn't HDTV, but it's stunning nonetheless (and of course the sound is great). One big concern to me is/was how much juice this bad boy pulls in though. (I've debated getting one of those Kill-a-Watt things to be sure.) If it matters, it's a Sony KV-27FS120... it is Energy Star compliant, for whatever that's worth (probably not much).

If you look at page 17 of the .pdf he's giving us. You can see that DLP, LCD
Projection and CRT Projection give the most bang for the power buck unless you
want to be stuck watching a 27-32"" TV that weighs in at 200lbs. I noticed the
only LCD projection they have on the chart is like a 60". It looks to me like direct
view LCD is the most efficient, especially in the 500sq.in. zone. My 50" LCD
Projection uses 210watts. I'll tell this one week with OTA HD on a 50" widescreen
LCD Projection
and you'll be hooked.



Grateful11
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Spiff
Date: August 20, 2006 10:47PM
I seem to remember (in the dark recesses of my mind) reading somewhere (though I can't substantiate) that HD TV will be mandatory of all stations by 2010. Someone please refute or back me up. This date has been pushed back many times and I don't doubt that it will be pushed back further.
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: August 20, 2006 11:18PM
I think the latest date for the mandatory for converstion to all digital broadcast is 2009. All that means is that your normal analog OTA tuners will no longer work in 2009. Any digital tuner will be able to convert the OTA digital signal to analog and you will still be able to use your non-HD sets for many years into the future.

Now, my opinion has long been that you should wait until you actually need something before you go and buy it because if you buy it now, by the time you do need it, it will cost abot half as much as you originally paid for it when you were just out kicking the tires. So to speak.

That said, I picked up a 27" HD Samsung CRT TV about 18 months ago for 500 bucks. A great deal at the time, no doubt. I also have HD-cable (which is less than a stellar deal IMO) and an HD OTA tuner (a very good deal). The thing is that so many channels are not going to full-on 1920x1080 HD broadcasts that buying an HD TV (be it LCD/plasma/CRT) than can actually display full-on 1920x1080 resolution is not going to be worth your money.

That is of course, unless you plan on buying an Xbox 360, Playstation 3, or Blu-Ray / HD-DVD player. All these can utilize the full resolution of HD. Otherwise, you'll end up with a mash of fully digital, yet not fully HD broadcast signals. But you'll still need a digital tuner to get into the game. That could be digital cable, digital satellite, or digital OTA. Take your pick, it sounds like you only have 1, and about 3 years to figure it out.

If I were you I would wait another year or so and get a nice big OLED display. Sure to beat out the current generation in colors at least, and probably in power consumption too.
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 20, 2006 11:26PM
mikebw;

Pretty much my plan smiling smiley
I want a new TV for it's larger size, and a flat-variety to reduce the space it takes..
The HD part is only a "perk" for the other features.

I've got my "target" price in mind.. when they come down to that, I'll buy. Looks like probably about a year. Maybe by christmas if the sales get steep enough.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: August 20, 2006 11:39PM
This holiday season should be an interesting time this year for TV sales. The reatail market is really switching to flat screens big-time. I mean if you go in a Best Buy or other big name store, I bet you will have to expend some extra energy locating an 'old' CRT direct-view TV anywhere on display. They are really pushing the flat screens.
Is it because that's what people want? Sure, but I bet it's also because they can make a decent margin on every model, especially on the bigger sizes.

The PS3 should also drive sales of any 1080p models, that is any HD model capable of displaying a full 1920x1080 pixels at 30fps. Progressive- no interlacing here.

I don't think we will ever really see 1080p OTA though, or via Cable. Too much bandwidth and not enough demand. Sure it'll be the best thing you've ever seen, but it's not gonna happen. Even Blu-Ray and HD-DVD won't do it.

Be sure though, that whatever you buy will probably be waaay better than your current setup, as long as you have an HD source. Beware, if you intend to view plain OTA analog signals on a fixed resolution LCD/plasma, or even an 'HD' direct-view CRT you will be dissapointed. Any non HD or analog source will probably look like crap, even if you thought it looked fine on your old set. This is because the signal gets mangled and processed to show up on the new set, and despite these efforts you can probably still see the fact that it sucks.

So, do yourself a favor (and it sounds like you will) and wait until you can get a good HD source AND display to show it off.
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 21, 2006 09:59AM
Here's some more data about power usage of diffrent kinds of sets:

[72.14.203.104]

* Plasma TV (50”) 400 W
* Rear Projection TV (60”) 200 W
* Large CRT (34”) 200 W
* LCD (32”) 100 W


I have a Samsung 56 in. rear projection LCD/DLP HDTV (720p). Some analog TV shows do look pretty bad, but if the original video was good quality and the signal is a good one - like you might see in typical network first run shows - the picture is quite acceptable. I also have a Sony DVD player that upconverts its output to 720p. Some DVD's don't look so hot, but most well made DVD's look pretty good. I think it might have to do with how much compression and what type of compression algorithm they use when making the DVD. With large screen HD it seems like the quality of the compression used has a big impact on how good the picture looks.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2006 10:04AM by Ted King.
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: jdc
Date: August 21, 2006 10:40AM
lol -- i have a sony 27" CRT, have had it for years. i really have no desire to even replace it

but, recently we thought about upgrading to a larger tv, but spending anything more than say, $400, or less, seems silly to me?





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 21, 2006 10:59AM
jdc;
Generally, I agree with you... I don't jump on audio/video bandwagons easily.. and don't keep chasing bigger and bigger TV's...
Friend of mine just got his 4th TV in 5 years... a 60-something inch projection TV. Damn think takes up his ENTIRE living room!

One reason I'm thinking flat-screen (LCD/Plasma) is to take up LESS space!
Screen size, I'd be gaining 2-3 inches over my old TV, which has served me well for 5-ish years for the $300 I spent. It just takes up too much space.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: August 21, 2006 03:50PM
I spent $2500 on a new Mac Computer once, now that was silly. I doubt if I ever do
that again. We're huge movie buffs and spending $2K on a 50" TV didn't seem silly
at all. Like they to each his own. I suspect that everyone on here has something in
their life that they are willing to spend more on than someone else, whether it be
fine food, motorcycles, vacations, TV's, etc.



Grateful11
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: August 21, 2006 03:51PM
Quote
Ted King
Here's some more data about power usage of diffrent kinds of sets:

[72.14.203.104]

* Plasma TV (50”) 400 W
* Rear Projection TV (60”) 200 W
* Large CRT (34”) 200 W
* LCD (32”) 100 W


I have a Samsung 56 in. rear projection LCD/DLP HDTV (720p). Some analog TV shows do look pretty bad, but if the original video was good quality and the signal is a good one - like you might see in typical network first run shows - the picture is quite acceptable. I also have a Sony DVD player that upconverts its output to 720p. Some DVD's don't look so hot, but most well made DVD's look pretty good. I think it might have to do with how much compression and what type of compression algorithm they use when making the DVD. With large screen HD it seems like the quality of the compression used has a big impact on how good the picture looks.

Hi Ted that linked page is horrible but useful winking smiley



Grateful11
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Re: Whats the future of HDTV? Where should a guy start "going HD"?
Posted by: pixelzombie
Date: August 22, 2006 09:24AM
Quote
mikebw
This holiday season should be an interesting time this year for TV sales. The reatail market is really switching to flat screens big-time. I mean if you go in a Best Buy or other big name store, I bet you will have to expend some extra energy locating an 'old' CRT direct-view TV anywhere on display. They are really pushing the flat screens.

the profit margin is quite nice on the 32" lcd's, ao i can imagine what it's like on a 42" plasma...
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