They replaced the HD with another Seagate, some sorta newer revision. As soon as I turned it on I noticed
that the gray smudges, looks like old school CRT burn in, is still there. The new problem is they installed
Lion instead of Snow Leopard. I backed it up with TM and CCC and wiped the old HD with Zero's twice then
installed SL with the original system discs. My understanding was they were suppose to put back on it what
ever it came in with.

The gray smudges is what's really got me p!ssed. I immediately called and asked if they cleaned the screen
that it was noted on the paperwork when we dropped it and they told me on the phone this evening that
they may not be able to clean it off. They asked on the phone if I bought Applecare and I told them that
I intended too but at about 11months out my son passed away and it totally slipped our minds. Anyway
they said to take a photo of the screen and email to the Friendly Center Apple store and see if they could
determine if it was screen contamination or something else, so I did and I didn't hear anything back. I'll
call tomorrow. The tech said if they determined it was contamination they would replace the LCD no
charge even out of warranty. Everything I've read online is telling me that even if they replace the screen
it's going to come back. Personally I think this whole situation sucks. If I can get them to replace it I could
just sell it and get a Mini but that really wouldn't be fair to the buyer, knowing that this crud is going to
come back at some point. I'm so sick of this, this will probably be my last iMac and it's such a great computer.

BTW: I found a youtube video on how to remove the glass/poly carbonate screen so you can clean it
yourself but that did no good at all so it almost has to be inside the panel. It's very easy to remove the
glass/whatever with a good suction cup.

Man it's hard to take a good photo of screen, even an LCD. It's much more pronounced than what these
2 photos are showing.

---

Grateful11

I have the same problem with my machine.

---

Your experience covers several reasons why I don't want an iMac: the difficulty of replacing the HD, the fact that there is only one internal HD, and the fact that the messed up display is part of the machine, so you can't just replace it. I guess you could do all your work on a second display, but that's far from an ideal solution.

where are these gray smudges coming from, is it some outgassing inside the computer?

I just had my iMac's hard drive replaced too and was fortunate not to have any smudge problems.

Have you tried looking at it with a different desktop picture or pattern? It might be less noticeable with a differnt color or pattern.

---

Northern California Coast

Quote
space-time
where are these gray smudges coming from, is it some outgassing inside the computer?

I'm on page 55 of this thread about this problem. There's seems to many opinions as to where they are
coming from. It also seems to be a much larger problem than Apple wants to admit to freely.

[discussions.apple.com]

---

Grateful11

Like this one:

"I'm about to go in for my third replacement of the LCD. Apple Executive Customer Relations has ruled that the cause is environmental, and that the high humidity in Ohio causes water vapor to settle on the LCD panel. It was also claimed that both dehumidifiers and humidifiers can cause the issue, which besides not making sense, eliminates your only defense against this ridiculous assertion of high humidity being the cause.

They claimed that turning your machine off allows the water vaport to condense on the LCD as it cools. Of course, they told me that last time, too. Since then, I haven't turned the machine off or let it sleep enough to cool down. It made no difference.

I also explained that I no longer lived in Ohio and that it recurred in Illinois, and they said they'd have to get back to me.

The absurdity of the statement "if you use an iMac in Ohio, you're voiding the warranty" (paraphrased, obviously) boggles my mind. I am quite literally 1 city block from an Apple Store here in Illinois. I want to see what they have to say about environmental issues here.

In all fairness, they did offer to replace the LCD one last time, but after that I'm on my own. I'm selling it as soon as I get it back, maybe someone else will have better luck. I won't be buying another iMac, that's for sure."

---

Grateful11

This is pretty common and there are apps to fix it...

LCD scrub

JScreenFix

but what I understand is that rapid color change can just wipe the problem away.

Try creating two documents - one entirely white, the other entirely black

expand/create them to be FULL screen...

use CMD- ~ to switch between the two very quickly. This should make your screen go white > black > white > black etc...

wow, didn't know about this widespread problem. If this was mentioned before here on the forum I guess I missed those threads.

Quote
Grateful11

Quote
space-time
where are these gray smudges coming from, is it some outgassing inside the computer?

I'm on page 55 of this thread about this problem. There's seems to many opinions as to where they are
coming from. It also seems to be a much larger problem than Apple wants to admit to freely.

[discussions.apple.com]

Those people are having a different problem... air gets in behind the glass and eventually leaves a build up. Smoking KILLS these things, but that's not what you have... you should be just fine - deep breath...

use this google link for more reading...
[www.google.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2013 08:02PM by hal.

Quote
hal
This is pretty common and there are apps to fix it...

LCD scrub

JScreenFix

...

It doesn't seem to be burn in, but more like some outgassing.

Quote
hal
This is pretty common and there are apps to fix it...

LCD scrub

JScreenFix

but what I understand is that rapid color change can just wipe the problem away.

Try creating two documents - one entirely white, the other entirely black

expand/create them to be FULL screen...

use CMD- ~ to switch between the two very quickly. This should make your screen go white > black > white > black etc...

Thanks Hal. As soon as Game of Thrones is over I've got to try this. I sure hope it works.

---

Grateful11

my understanding is that its some sort of ventilation / lcd lamination problem. tiny dust gets INSIDE the panel.

I have a late 2009 model. Hm, i should check on the applecare. Actually, i've been using my MBA (from work) quite a bit so maybe i should just get that machine fixed.

Anyway, i was hoping they'd be out of panels by the time i came in for a replacement. and, you know, need to give me something better.

---

Happened to my 2009 Imac after they replaced the Hd.
It looked like finger prints. They said they could not clean it so they replaced the display.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2013 09:49PM by bruceko.

Wow, makes me really reluctant to replace the internal hard drive with my external SSD.

Quote
sekker
Wow, makes me really reluctant to replace the internal hard drive with my external SSD.

the problem would be unaffected by the drive swap.

however, i did that swap and will need to swap back when i want the machine serviced.

---

Sorry Hal but the Black White rapid switching did nothing to the screen, how long was I suppose to do it,
had to turn my head didn't want to have a seizure or something. JScreenFix says it's for dead pixels,
they're definitely not dead pixels. I'm trying the free version of LCD Scrub, it's been running for about 10
minutes. It says the free version only runs a few minutes but it's still going. Keeping my fingers crossed.
We really don't want to have to make the hour trip to the Apple Store once again but if it means a free
LCD replacement it'll be worth it.

BTW: You don't need a suction cup to remove the glass thingy from a mid-2011 iMac, you can run fingernails
between the aluminum top edge and the glass and gently pull it away from the iMac. It seems to be held
in place by magnets and it's quite flexible. It won't slide down the front either once it's loose, it has metal
fingers that hold it from falling.

---

Grateful11




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2013 10:08PM by Grateful11.

This has happened to me a couple of times and has always just fixed itself before I got around to doing anything...

well, if you look at the bright side, it's WIN-WIN. You're getting a new hard drive AND new screen for the price of two one hour trips... New screen is MUCH more valuable...

I agree. They said a screen replacement would run $600. I'd sell it as is and show the spots before paying
for a new screen, I figure I could $900-1000 for it and then turn around a get a Mini or a refurb tower.
I have a good 24" display in the basement just sitting there. I guess one thing that gets me is that I
have an elcheapo HP 19" LCD running off the iMac as a second screen and it doesn't have a spot on it.

---

Grateful11

try rotating the image 90º in display prefs... yes... this is a desperate stab...

If I can get LCD Scrub to run all night I'm going to do that for now.

might as well...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2013 10:45PM by hal.

That isn't dead spots or anything that cleaning the outside of the glass or running a pixel program is going to fix. That is contamination inside the LCD assembly. It is between the layers inside the panel, it isn't something that happens just from servicing the computer. That was likely there before they opened it up and you just didn't notice or perhaps formed from the temp/humidity changes in transit. Could also be delamination or outgassing as previously mentioned. Only way to know would be to take apart a screen. There is no way to fix it without replacing the LCD screen.

---

C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I knew it was there before taking it in. I just assumed it was something on the inside of the glass or on the
face of the LCD panel. They saw it when they hooked it up on the Genius Bar and they said they would take
care of it, that was why I was shocked to see that it was the same when we got home with it.

My 2010 27" iMac had a large squiggle on the screen. I finally talked Applecare into sending out a serviceman to replace the screen. The last few months the new screen has developed a similar problem, almost like a drip inside the screen, which gradually expanded. It was only really noticeable on startup, with the solid-color screen. Lately it seems to have dissipated. My Applecare runs out this summer, so if it's going to return, I hope it's before that.

After watching the service guy remove the screen and perusing the ingenious but crammed insides, I'm thinking my next Mac should be a nice, open tower. I'm hoping there'll be a new, low- or mid-priced Pro, but I suppose that's unlikely.

/Mr Lynn

---

"Hillbilly at Harvard"
Honky-tonk Country and Bluegrass
Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 11am Eastern
WHRB-FM, Cambridge, MA
Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!
The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.

UPDATE: I was wrong; the splotchy defects have not disappeared; they show up well on a restart (but not on a solid-color desktop) or re-login. In addition to a ragged field, there are two vertical columns of rectangles, like film sprocket holes. Weird.

/Mr Lynn

I'm about 5 minutes from Friendly Center. You want I should go over there and bust some heads?

---

Quote
bazookaman
I'm about 5 minutes from Friendly Center. You want I should go over there and bust some heads?

That wouldn't be very friendly now, would it?

---

Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Quote
C(-)ris
That isn't dead spots or anything that cleaning the outside of the glass or running a pixel program is going to fix. That is contamination inside the LCD assembly. It is between the layers inside the panel, it isn't something that happens just from servicing the computer. That was likely there before they opened it up and you just didn't notice or perhaps formed from the temp/humidity changes in transit. Could also be delamination or outgassing as previously mentioned. Only way to know would be to take apart a screen. There is no way to fix it without replacing the LCD screen.

This is 100% correct. I have replaced a few LCDs with this exact problem. They have all been in warranty. They were all in office settings with controlled humidity & no smoking. There's no way it was the fault of the clients. In one case, it was 1 iMac out of 6 identical models purchased at the same time.

---

---

Does this happen with Apple displays as well as AIO iMacs? If not, maybe it's got something to do with the additional electronics and drives in close proximity to the LCD screen. But I'm just speculating, of course.

/Mr Lynn

I haven't seen it in Thunderbolt displays, but I have seen it in the old aluminum style Cinema Displays - but rarely.

---

---

Quote
bazookaman
I'm about 5 minutes from Friendly Center. You want I should go over there and bust some heads?

I was thinking you were in Greensboro. Years ago I thought Friendly Center would go down the tubes like
most strip malls but man has that place ever grown. You name it and I believe they have it.

We have another appointment for 1pm tomorrow if you want to drop by for moral support. I like my 27" iMac
but after reading through most the 68 page thread at Apple about how many people are having issues with
2009 - the next to last iMac revision I'm having thoughts of once, if I get it replaced, dumping it. Apple seems
to be giving out every excuse they can from smoking in your house, to living in a too humid part of the
country to your house is too dusty, etc. There's a problem with these iMacs and I don't think they really
know what to do other than keep replacing panels. I seriously doubt they'll ever make an offer to let folks
trade them in on a new one or replace them with a new one but that would sure look good in my book.

[www.friendlycenter.com]

BazookaMan, ever eat at Mimis Cafe? The place seemed to be packed both times we were over there.

Well just got a phone call and it's good news. They received the photos I sent via email and they're replacing
the LCD panel, no charge. Can't beat that for service.

Now to try and figure if there's anything I can do to prevent it from happening again. I read about cranking
up the fan speed to keep it cooler and also putting thin filtering media over the air inlets. I really would
like to try and prevent it so I can continue using it. Some say there's nothing you can do to prevent it, that
it's either going to happen or not regardless of what you do.

---

Grateful11

Quote
Grateful11
Well just got a phone call and it's good news. They received the photos I sent via email and they're replacing
the LCD panel, no charge. Can't beat that for service.

Now to try and figure if there's anything I can do to prevent it from happening again. I read about cranking
up the fan speed to keep it cooler and also putting thin filtering media over the air inlets. I really would
like to try and prevent it so I can continue using it. Some say there's nothing you can do to prevent it, that
it's either going to happen or not regardless of what you do.

I really doubt there is anything you can do. Like decay noted, I've seen it on one or two machines in a 30 machine lab in a school. Those machines all got exactly the same use.

---

C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's one guys history with his iMac, it's pretty sad:

"I've had my LCD panel replaced twice and had the entire iMac replaced once. Today I noticed the problem has returned. Here is a summary of what I've gone through with this problem:

- I originally purchased a 27" iMac in February, 2010. I included an 8 GB RAM upgrade and an Apple Care plan.
- In mid 2010 I noticed a "watermark-like stain, almost a wet smudge" appear on the screen. Apple of Albuquerque replaced the LCD panel immediately.
- Around September of 2010 the problem returned. Apple of Albuquerque again replaced the LCD panel.
- In June of 2011 the problem returned for the third time. I had moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and the local Apple store replaced the entire system...reluctantly...with much accusation, insinuation, snide remarks and condescension.
- In addition, when I asked them to make sure they included the 8 GB of RAM in the system they lied. Upon returning home I noticed the new iMac only had 4 GB of RAM. When I called them the person on the phone insisted he personally put the 8 GB in my system and that it probably wasn't seated correctly. The problem with this very dumb lie is that I own a screwdriver (perhaps you've heard of the tool?) and it takes less than 30 seconds to verify this Apple employee's claim. What did I find? 2 sticks of 2 GB RAM.
- I informed Apple's Mayfair Mall store of this "error" and they agreed to resolve the problem. I also insisted they upgrade me to 16 GB of RAM for having inconvenienced me. They balked so I repeated all the above events. I said "I paid for a premium product and so far I've had a lousy experience with it. Lying to me was the anvil that broke the camel's back." They agreed to the 16 GB upgrade.
- This week the problem reappeared. I'm now preparing myself for the onslaught of nastiness I'll experience when I walk into the Mayfair Mall Apple Store.

I've lost roughly 2 work weeks because of this problem. That's real money to me. I'm a graphic designer & photographer. I cannot afford to be without a computer. Apple, I hope you are listening...I bought the iMac because I needed something that was reliable. I paid a premium for that promise. I've been a customer of yours since the Apple IIe. And all you've done in the last two years is treat me like a customer of Dell.

I'll replace the LCD panel again...but what is the point? Clearly, you do not care to actually solve the problem. In 4-6 months the smudges will reappear. At that point my Apple Care will expire. And I'll be stuck with the world's most expensive stain.

I want a permanent solution to this problem, Apple. I've been a customer of yours since the Apple IIe. Right now I feel like the foolish fanboy PC users describe. You've burned me and you've severely damaged my relationship with your company."

---

Grateful11

Here's another quote from the same thread:

"I spent an hour discussing this problem with an engineer who has experience with LCD panels. Here was his conclusion:

ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS IRRELEVANT WITH LCD PANELS
1.) The individual cells of an LCD are sealed.
2.) Dust does not effect LCD cells.
3.) Moisture/Vapor/Humidity/Water do not effect LCD cells. Since the cells are sealed there is no way for water of any kind to enter the cell. In fact, he's submerged LCD panels in water for 4-5 hours (to remove various protective layers from the panels) and then turned them on after they've dried.

SMEARING/SMUDGES ARE CLEARLY CAUSED BY EXCESSIVE HEAT
The engineer looked at the various photos on this thread as well as my iMac and without skipping a beat he said "Your LCD panel is too hot." I asked him if he'd ever seen this before. He responded "Oh, yeah. I've accidentally exposed LCD panels to a heat source 4-5 times and caused this exact problem. The individual cells contain liquid crystals. If they're exposed to excess heat and begin to boil these smudges are the result. It gets worse over time because the panel is consistently being subjected to overheating causing more cells to boil and leak. This stuff is really simple; dead cells are black, working cells emit a full range of colors and cells that have boiled off some of their fluid are grey. What you have is clear, obvious, scientific proof that the LCD is being overheated, that the cells are boiling off some of that fluid, the cells are bursting and the fluid is staining the inside of your panel. The only way to fix this is to redesign the iMac."

QUALIFICATIONS OF ENGINEER
My engineering partner has worked professionally with LCD panels for over 5 years. He's personally assembled over 500 units that required custom LCD panel installation. He is a professional engineer who previously worked for Bell Labs as well as private firms with military contracts. He has experience in electrical engineering, electronics, optics, IR and projection.

CONCLUSION
I'm now convinced that the iMac has serious overheating issues and that it is cooking the LCD panel.

Anyone who has ever been told their environment is to blame has been deceived. Smoking, dust, a clean room, humidity...none of these are factors when dealing with a technology sealed from the outside world. Heat and heat alone is the culprit to this issue. This is a design flaw in the iMac. It deserves a recall and a redesign."

---

Grateful11

Quote
Grateful11
BazookaMan, ever eat at Mimis Cafe? The place seemed to be packed both times we were over there.

Yep. We like to have Sunday breakfast/brunch there sometimes. And yes. It does always seem to be packed.

---

Grateful, thanks for posting that quote from an engineer. The first thing I noticed about my iMac when it was new was that it seemed to be running quite hot. I got rid of the—what was it called? BOINC?—that was running SETI at Home, and that help calm things down, but the computer has always been hot to the touch at the fan openings on top.

It makes sense that all the heat being generated could affect the LCD screen adversely. Of course, just because it sounds plausible to me doesn't mean it's true, but that quote at least gives the hypothesis more credence.

I'd better get my second screen replaced, too.

/Mr Lynn