[autos.yahoo.com]

There, we said it. The Tesla Model S outscores every other car in our test ratings. It does so even though it’s an electric car. In fact, it does so because it is electric.

Built from the ground up as an EV, this car’s overall balance benefits from mounting the battery under the floor and in the lowest part of the body. That gives the car a rock-bottom center of gravity that enables excellent handling, a comfortable ride, and lots of room inside. Plus, it has a front trunk where other cars’ gasoline engines would be, in addition to its large rear cargo space. This big luxury hatchback even seats seven, with its optional third-row jump seat.

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

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G.D. Kittredge III

"

Quote

Even with Tesla’s optional High Power Wall Connector, it takes about five hours to charge. On a standard 240-volt electric-car charger, it would take about 12 hours.

Quote

We paid $89,650 for our Model S, with the biggest available battery, the most seats available, and the fastest available optional chargers. Then we still had to pay another $1,200 for Tesla’s High Power Wall Connector.

They get those licked, and I'd expect to see some SERIOUS dents made in internal combustion powered vehicle sales.
But until then; it's just an expensive technology demonstrator for the company, and toy for the well heeled customers who buy them.

Promising; but not "there" yet.

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Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

I'd be driving one of these if I were willing to spend that much money on a car.

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It is what it is.

If someone handed me that much money and said "Would you rather have a car or a home?" I'd take the home. I like cars too, but they're a utility. Something one uses to get around in. If it looks nice and is fun to drive then it is a bonus.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
Paul F.
They get those licked, and I'd expect to see some SERIOUS dents made in internal combustion powered vehicle sales.
But until then; it's just an expensive technology demonstrator for the company, and toy for the well heeled customers who buy them.

Promising; but not "there" yet.

I presume you're referring to the vehicle cost and the time required to recharge. I agree with you about the former but I don't see recharge time as an issue for most people. In fact, no liquid fueled vehicle is anywhere near as convenient as a pure electric like the Tesla: It's fully fuelled and ready to go every morning with no more effort on the owner's part than plugging in a cable.

For long trips, Tesla's SuperChargers provide full charges in an hour or less. Not a huge deal.

For many, maybe even most, people, the charge time is probably not USUALLY an issue... but bring it down by half (6 hours standard, 2.5 hrs on the fast charger, and now it's an issue for a whole LOT fewer people.

Here's the thing... I've been known to take trips where I drive about 600 miles in a day. Taking a five hour break to recharge, assuming I can find a quick charger someplace, really is not an option for that kind of driving.
Is it going to be a major decision factor in my buying, or not buying, the car (price aside)? Well, yeah. I don't make long road trips often, but I'll be darned if I want a car that absolutely CAN'T do it.

Much bigger fan of the plug-in hybrid... where I can fall back on a gas engine once I pass the all-electric range.
Now THERE is a feature set I can get real interested in until all-electrics evolve some more - and they are!

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Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Tesla's supercharger charges the Model S in <= 1hour. That is the selling point. You wake up with 300 miles of range. You drive for about 4-5 hours. Charge your car at a Super Charger station while you eat, poop, etc and drive for another 300 miles. It's a pretty good set up. Tesla is breaking the chicken egg cycle by pushing out their own charging stations. If Gas stations were smart, they'd start including them as well.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

I'd be driving one of these if I were willing to spend that much money on a car.

I'm glad you're not! LOL

I'd be driving one of these if I had that much money to spend on a car.

I see more and more Model Ss on the road and I always wonder what battery package that driver got.

The Hi-Power Wall Connector is a given, but I'd also want to invest in a solar powered charging station for those days when I don't use the car.

And then there's the cost of a PA system so I could play the sound of a peaky V-12 or barely streetable Hi-Po rat motor. (A safety device to warn pedestrians.)

The car's gorgeous and I'd love to drive it a few hundred miles without the sound of a gasoline engine.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Be way more fun to play a recording of a single-cylinder diesel listeroid engine....

Pock! Pock! Pock! Pock! Pock!

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

If Gas stations were smart, they'd start including them as well.

Agreed.

I stopped at a McDonald's a couple of months ago and they had three EV charging stations. I may go by there again to find somebody who knows something about them.

Is there any standardization of charging connectors?

Also, I wonder how much it costs to "fill up" the various Ss.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

My work commute is sixteen miles round-trip - PERFECT for an electric car. I rarely ever venture far from home, and we have a second car I can use for when I do.

As I said, I'd be all over the Model S, if I were willing to pay that much for a vehicle.

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It is what it is.

Quote
Article Accelerator
For long trips, Tesla's SuperChargers provide full charges in an hour or less. Not a huge deal.

Actually, it doesn't quite give a full charge in an hour. Needs more than an hour. Plus the vast majority of roads in the country aren't even close to a super charging station.

---

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Quote
RAMd®d
I'd be driving one of these if I were willing to spend that much money on a car.

I'm glad you're not! LOL

I see what you did there.

Did you see the info I posted in another thread yesterday regarding getting a great lease deal on a 2013 G37?

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It is what it is.

Quote

We paid $89,650

Uh, no, not in this lifetime.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

A lot of the comments in the article kill me. Tons of people talking about the price of the car and how much gas you can buy for the difference in price between the Tesla and something cheap.

Really? They really think someone buys a $90K car to save money on gas?

Quote
Paul F.

Quote

Even with Tesla’s optional High Power Wall Connector, it takes about five hours to charge. On a standard 240-volt electric-car charger, it would take about 12 hours.

Quote

We paid $89,650 for our Model S, with the biggest available battery, the most seats available, and the fastest available optional chargers. Then we still had to pay another $1,200 for Tesla’s High Power Wall Connector.

They get those licked, and I'd expect to see some SERIOUS dents made in internal combustion powered vehicle sales.
But until then; it's just an expensive technology demonstrator for the company, and toy for the well heeled customers who buy them.

Promising; but not "there" yet.

Both of these points are irrelevant for the target market for the car. First off, anybody who has a Tesla no doubt has a second car, which could be the long distance trip car. It's exceedingly rare for a two-car household to have both cars on such long trips. Secondly, the price is competitive with the Tesla's competition (i.e. high end Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus, etc), especially when you consider that the operating costs are going to be far lower. Also, add in that the Tesla will blow the doors off any of those luxury cars in its price range.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 04:55PM by davester.

This is interesting: [www.teslamotors.com]

I love how much logic Tesla uses. Just wish they had a 350 mile range in their SUV.

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0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Yikes!

Quote
AllGold
0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Yikes!

That's the base model, right? I think the "performance" one is under 4s.

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I think the current customer of the Tesla Model S are those that can not only pay that kind of loot for the cost of the vehicle but are interested in reducing their carbon footprint to the maximum degree that they can afford to. And they can afford to.

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
AllGold
0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Yikes!

That's the base model, right? I think the "performance" one is under 4s.

I didn't know when I posted that but in looking closer, it is the performance model that comes in a 4.2 seconds. The other models are slower.

Quote
AllGold

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
AllGold
0-60 in 4.2 seconds. Yikes!

That's the base model, right? I think the "performance" one is under 4s.

I didn't know when I posted that but in looking closer, it is the performance model that comes in a 4.2 seconds. The other models are slower.

Strange, that's different than what's posted here: [www.teslamotorsclub.com] Guess they've since changed it? The biggest issue is the tires. All of them are capable of lower than 4 seconds, but you need grippier tires which usually means more rolling resistance.

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The base Model S is advertised as having a 5.6 second 0-60 time, whereas the Model S Performance has 4.2. Various magazines have tested it and achieved slightly better times. Note that Consumer Reports tested the top of the line Model S Performance. The cheaper model costs $62.400, ($25,000 cheaper) and still has neck-snapping performance.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 06:30PM by davester.

In other words, an expensive toy... which is exactly what I said.
Swear to god, we have to work on your reading comprehension!

Quote
davester

Quote
Paul F.

Quote

Even with Tesla’s optional High Power Wall Connector, it takes about five hours to charge. On a standard 240-volt electric-car charger, it would take about 12 hours.

Quote

We paid $89,650 for our Model S, with the biggest available battery, the most seats available, and the fastest available optional chargers. Then we still had to pay another $1,200 for Tesla’s High Power Wall Connector.

They get those licked, and I'd expect to see some SERIOUS dents made in internal combustion powered vehicle sales.
But until then; it's just an expensive technology demonstrator for the company, and toy for the well heeled customers who buy them.

Promising; but not "there" yet.

Both of these points are irrelevant for the target market for the car. First off, anybody who has a Tesla no doubt has a second car, which could be the long distance trip car. It's exceedingly rare for a two-car household to have both cars on such long trips. Secondly, the price is competitive with the Tesla's competition (i.e. high end Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus, etc), especially when you consider that the operating costs are going to be far lower. Also, add in that the Tesla will blow the doors off any of those luxury cars in its price range.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Quote
Paul F.
In other words, an expensive toy... which is exactly what I said.
Swear to god, we have to work on your reading comprehension!

I suppose you're right, if you view anything over $50k as an expensive toy. However, that $62k model is right in there with many mid-level luxury vehicles, including the most popular models of Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Acura, etc. Those cars are quite common, and are purchased by plenty of those in the upper middle class as their regular rides. Heck, many minivans and SUVs these days are pushing $50k. When you factor in the gas savings, the cost of the Tesla is fairly mainstream. No, it's not a Kia or a Hyundai econobox, but neither is it a rich person's plaything like a Bugatti or Ferrari, and it isn't remotely close to such playthings in price, where entry starts way north of $100k.

Perhaps this explains why so many people are buying them. I see at least one on the road every day, usually more.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I drive very little on a given day. An electric car would work very well for me. I don't find the Tesla to be a very "sexy" car though. If I'm going to put out more than $30k it needs to be sexy.

I do need to drive to Seattle occasionally, which is 240 miles round trip, so I would probably need the 85kw version at $72k. So what I need is about double the price I'm willing to pay plus it isn't convertible.

Here's my current drive.

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Ukulele music I couldn't find anywhere else.
[colquhoun.info]

The Prius Plug In gets you about 12-15 miles of EV. The ICE is a bit better than 55mpg. And it costs less than half the price of the Tesla.

Also, in So Cal, you must consider the cost of electricity. Unless you're on a pretty restrictive TOU, you're already going to be in the highest tier by the third day of your billing cycle.

Still a nice car, though.

Even at high tier CA rates, the cost to "fuel an EV is about 30% of a gas car. However, CA has very good TOU rates for EV owners that reduce the cost of nighttime recharging to about 10% of these rates. We're seriously looking at getting my wife a Chevy Volt for this reason. The fuel cost savings alone will almost pay the cost of the lease and the business writeoff will cover the rest.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Supposedly, a full charge will net you 265 miles, but it'd be interesting to see live data across a year's time (to allow for the variability in seasonal differences). Getting in on a sale before the rebates and tax credits run out is key to making it a good deal. California scores fairly high on producing clean"er" electricity, too.

Problems may occur in 8 years when the battery is finally dead. And although it's certainly not nuclear, it's still pretty toxic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 07:56PM by bfd.

Quote
Paul F.
Be way more fun to play a recording of a single-cylinder diesel listeroid engine....

Pock! Pock! Pock! Pock! Pock!

we had a few of those when I was in Sea Scouts. Used to power old surplus lifeboats.

What kind of mileage would I expect to get with an electric car in Sacramento when it's 110 outside, and I'm cranking the car's air conditioning?

actually the bigger worry is cold weather.

unless plugged in a lot of capacity can be lost overnight in cold weather, as that nyt reporter found.

just make sure you've got at least a 110VAC connection available in that circumstance.