I've been having a progressively harder time understanding conversation in the presence of background noise. "White" noise being the worst. Both my grandfather and father developed high frequency deafness in their 40's and 50's. so I went to the 'audiologist' for a 'free hearing test' (read sales pitch for hearing aids).

After a pretty well designed test , he showed me the chart. My high frequency hearing is VERY sensitive ! My low frequency is on the high performing side of normal. Basically I have my treble turned all the way up.

I am very confused. Why the heck am I having trouble with conversations ? Is it because my hearing is so sensitive I can't tell the words from the noise ?

Guys just don't listen to women..........

You are describing exactly the problems I started experiencing about 15 years ago. These days, face to face talking is fine even though I don't lip read however if there is someone else talking in the background or other sounds going on then it becomes much more difficult and if the person talking to me moves their head too much it also is bad. Watching movies or tv shows that have music playing at the same time has become a major problem. Audiology tests have shown that my higher frequency hearing is bad however, like you, my lower frequencies are excellent. Sarah asks if I can hear the birds singing, if I'm outside I maybe can however when in the house I can't but I can hear (shades of M.A.S.H. here!) helicopters approaching or lorries going down the lane better than her and Sarah's hearing is supposedly very good. Modern hearing aids are very good at enhancing the frequency range where needed and leaving the good areas alone but don't expect to get perfect hearing back, it will just help a bit.

Paul

Voodoo-
Well, what you describe is exactly what I expected. But the test results completely wozzled me. I was expecting a high frequency deafness, not exceptional acuity !

And I can hear birdies from far, far away. I'm the fellow in the Home Depot who regularly stops and looks for the sparrow that just chirped over in the garden section.

I can only venture to guess that perhaps there's some issue regarding 'processing' the audio information your ear provides in the brain.

Maybe I will post my hearing frequency graph if I can find it! The dip is at the higher end but at the top end it's almost back to normal so although bird song can be difficult, very high sounds are still audible. The dip occurs around the typical speaking level. Your "dip" could be across a slightly lower area so voices are awkward but birds are where your hearing is still OK.

The first realisation of problems was when watching a favourite tv show at the time, Thirty Something. The first series was OK but later on I was having more and more problems. That show I believe had double the amount of script than the average, people talking over each other which made it more natural in viewing but increasingly more difficult for those with hearing problems. The West Wing also caused difficulties.

Paul

Same issues here, with the addition of great sensitivity to loud noises-construction sites, motorcycles, leaf blowers-that leaves me with muddy, muffled hearing for an hour or two. I found bone conduction headphones (Aftershokz is one brand) let me listen to and understand podcasts, appreciate music, etc, with less ear stress and hearing fatigue than open air speakers or headphones.

One thing that helped with TV was wireless headphones with compression technology that shifts signal down to lower frequencies that are more commonly functional in hearing impaired folks.

Ear congestion, unremedied by decongestants, is a compounding problem for my hearing.

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Carnos Jax
I can only venture to guess that perhaps there's some issue regarding 'processing' the audio information your ear provides in the brain.

Quite possibly. I always have to consider the knock my noggin got a decade ago whenever I consider symptoms. A traumatic brain injury tends to factor into everything with unintended consequences.

My family always joke that my hearing loss was brought about by listening to Jimi at high volume however the experts said that it was more likely that I was predisposed to the problem from birth (something to do with wearing jeans? My hearing isn't good!). My impairment is not indicative of sustained loud noise.

Paul

I remember reading that scientists have long been puzzled by how the human brain is able to filter out specific sounds from the din that is almost always around us. It is like being able zoom in with your ears. How can you pick out a conversation between two people in a room full of people conversing? I'd guess your traumatic brain injury is a good place to start when looking for causes of your issues. My guess is that it isn't year ears that are the problem, but rather your brain's ability to interpret what your ears are providing.


This might be relevant:
[scientopia.org]

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 11:18AM by ztirffritz.

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ztirffritz
My guess is that it isn't year ears that are the problem, but rather your brain.

I've always thought cbelt3's brain had problems. ;)

Paul

Voodoo-

Freely admitted on a regular basis .

Hearing is not just ear sensitivity but also brain processing. Yes, the daily din would leave us all "deaf" from confusion otherwise.

But regarding your test cbelt3, is there a dip from around 900-2000Hz and if so, how much?

Hearing aids (and the tests to design or prescribe them) are imperfect, just as stereo sound systems are.

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cbelt3
My high frequency hearing is VERY sensitive ! My low frequency is on the high performing side of normal. Basically I have my treble turned all the way up.

I am very confused. Why the heck am I having trouble with conversations ? Is it because my hearing is so sensitive I can't tell the words from the noise ?

I think you've misunderstood your test results. It's your high frequency range which is impaired; it's not "sensitive."
Degradation in the high frequency range is most usually the first to occur as people age.
Unfortunately, many important speech queues reside in that range, hence the difficulty understanding conversations.
Sounds lost are the softer consonants; "th", "s", "f" and so on.

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voodoopenguin
Modern hearing aids are very good at enhancing the frequency range where needed and leaving the good areas alone but don't expect to get perfect hearing back, it will just help a bit.

Paul

Don't expect modern hearing aids to be like prescription glasses; that is that they're so unobtrusive that you forget you're wearing them. They WILL add an artificiality to what's heard.

Deus,

Seems to me, from the stories I hear of people fighting with loved ones over them refusing to get a hearing aid of any kind, people prefer being unable to hear over hearing with a sense of artificiality. 'course, denial plays a huge role but there is a point where it should be obvious to someone that he/she needs a hearing aid or other form of assistive device.

Robert

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Robert M
Deus,

... people prefer being unable to hear over hearing with a sense of artificiality. 'course, denial plays a huge role but there is a point where it should be obvious to someone that he/she needs a hearing aid or other form of assistive device.
Robert

Correct.
The artificiality of the hearing aids' sound is far more desirable than living with the isolation of not being able to hear what's being said around you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 01:06PM by DeusxMac.

Deck & Deus- no dips in the chart... Actually a sustained increase in my ability to hear signals from low freq to high.. low freq is in the middle the normal range. High freq is way above normal range.

It's just freaky. I'm showing CLASSIC high freq deafness symptoms, but diagnostic tests show otherwise.

I'd love to find a test that is more like a 'colorblindness' test... fill the sound channel with white or patterned noise and have me try to understand conversation set at various frequencies. I think that would work better diagnostically.

FWIW I'm a classically trained control systems engineer with a lot of time on spectrum analyzers and signal generators. I used to speak Fourier fluently. So I get all the concepts.

I'm also surprised at the explanation of how hearing aids work.. they don't 'amplify' the frequencies where you have problems.. they take the speech frequencies and shift them to those freqs where you have hearing capability. So the gals sound like dudes and the little birds sound like ducks. That's gotta be very confusing.

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cbelt3
I'm also surprised at the explanation of how hearing aids work.. they don't 'amplify' the frequencies where you have problems.. they take the speech frequencies and shift them to those freqs where you have hearing capability. So the gals sound like dudes and the little birds sound like ducks. That's gotta be very confusing.

Definitely sounds confusing and definitely not how my hearing aids work! I don't wear them all the time so will know if the same sounds appear different whether wearing or not.

Paul

I have the same problem.
About 10 years ago I ruptured both ear drums from a bad sinus infection.
It took about 6 months to get most of my hearing back.
At that point my Family consisted of my wife, 3 daughters, Mother and Mother in Law.
The doctors said my hearing returned to normal for someone who had worked in an Industrial envirment which I had not.
the doctor also said that my left ear had more hearing loss in the 3k to 3k range, the range of a womans voice.
I looked at him and asked "can you make my right ear the same?

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cbelt3
Deck & Deus- no dips in the chart... Actually a sustained increase in my ability to hear signals from low freq to high.. low freq is in the middle the normal range. High freq is way above normal range.

It's just freaky. I'm showing CLASSIC high freq deafness symptoms, but diagnostic tests show otherwise.

I'd love to find a test that is more like a 'colorblindness' test... fill the sound channel with white or patterned noise and have me try to understand conversation set at various frequencies. I think that would work better diagnostically.

FWIW I'm a classically trained control systems engineer with a lot of time on spectrum analyzers and signal generators. I used to speak Fourier fluently. So I get all the concepts.

I'm also surprised at the explanation of how hearing aids work.. they don't 'amplify' the frequencies where you have problems.. they take the speech frequencies and shift them to those freqs where you have hearing capability. So the gals sound like dudes and the little birds sound like ducks. That's gotta be very confusing.

Every hearing test results print out I've seen is a graph which plots the frequency of the hearing LOSS.
If the plot rises above (vertical axis) the horizontal base line of full, normal hearing, it shows the degree of degradation for each sound frequency (horizontal axis.)

This, and your statement that you're experiencing "classic high frequency hearing" problems lead my to propose you were misreading your test results (or perhaps the person you spoke to didn't read them correctly.)

Perhaps you should get a second test done somewhere else that's not solely dedicated to selling you something; like the audiology department at a university or a hospital.

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DeusxMac
Perhaps you should get a second test done somewhere else that's not solely dedicated to selling you something; like the audiology department at a university or a hospital.

I had not realised that cbelt3 had been talking to sales people. My first hearing aids were the old style amplify-everything type and were useless. I returned to the audiology department and was in luck as they had just been asked to do the initial tests for the latest digital hearing aids to evaluate them before the NHS started prescribing them nationally. Because of this I was given very thorough tests over a period of time and plenty of explanations along the way about my particular problems and hearing loss in general. A year or so later I did wonder if the "invisible" in the ear aids would be suitable for me. The NHS do not prescribe them and when I mentioned this to the audiology department they said that all tests they had done showed that the only benefit was cosmetic and invariably this compromised the efficiency of the aid. They had no objection to me checking out the private companies but gave me an excellent primer about questions to ask, what some of the claims might be made and how to test them. I came away from the private company's appointment with the knowledge that they were definitely bending the facts and on a couple of times I had got them to admit that. I was not impressed but without that primer I could well see people falling for the pitch.

Our Consumer Association came to much the same conclusions.

Paul

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Carnos Jax
I can only venture to guess that perhaps there's some issue regarding 'processing' the audio information your ear provides in the brain.

I think this is something I have. I can hear someone speaking just fine - plenty loud and clear - but, when they're through speaking I think, "Wait. What?"

It seems consistent with old age problems like slowed reactions and forgetfulness - all because the brain is not functioning like it used to.

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DeusxMac

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cbelt3
Deck & Deus- no dips in the chart... Actually a sustained increase in my ability to hear signals from low freq to high.. low freq is in the middle the normal range. High freq is way above normal range.

It's just freaky. I'm showing CLASSIC high freq deafness symptoms, but diagnostic tests show otherwise.

Every hearing test results print out I've seen is a graph which plots the frequency of the hearing LOSS.
If the plot rises above (vertical axis) the horizontal base line of full, normal hearing, it shows the degree of degradation for each sound frequency (horizontal axis.)

This, and your statement that you're experiencing "classic high frequency hearing" problems lead my to propose you were misreading your test results (or perhaps the person you spoke to didn't read them correctly.)

So turn the chart upside down and look at it in the mirror and it will make sense.

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DeusxMac

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cbelt3
Deck & Deus- no dips in the chart... Actually a sustained increase in my ability to hear signals from low freq to high.. low freq is in the middle the normal range. High freq is way above normal range.

It's just freaky. I'm showing CLASSIC high freq deafness symptoms, but diagnostic tests show otherwise.

I'd love to find a test that is more like a 'colorblindness' test... fill the sound channel with white or patterned noise and have me try to understand conversation set at various frequencies. I think that would work better diagnostically.

FWIW I'm a classically trained control systems engineer with a lot of time on spectrum analyzers and signal generators. I used to speak Fourier fluently. So I get all the concepts.

I'm also surprised at the explanation of how hearing aids work.. they don't 'amplify' the frequencies where you have problems.. they take the speech frequencies and shift them to those freqs where you have hearing capability. So the gals sound like dudes and the little birds sound like ducks. That's gotta be very confusing.

Every hearing test results print out I've seen is a graph which plots the frequency of the hearing LOSS.
If the plot rises above (vertical axis) the horizontal base line of full, normal hearing, it shows the degree of degradation for each sound frequency (horizontal axis.)

This, and your statement that you're experiencing "classic high frequency hearing" problems lead my to propose you were misreading your test results (or perhaps the person you spoke to didn't read them correctly.)

Perhaps you should get a second test done somewhere else that's not solely dedicated to selling you something; like the audiology department at a university or a hospital.

Mine was not as described above, mine was a standard frequency response graph. When I had an ear infection a couple of years ago, I ruptured my eardrum. I had a hearing test from the audiologist at my Ear Nose Throat doctor's office before an operation to fix the rupture, then again months after, when the ear had healed. Both times the results that were given to me were plotted as a frequency response graph. It looked just like any other frequency response graph that one would see when evaluating speakers or microphones. After healing, hearing was quite good, according to my doc, as good, if not better than other people my age.

However, I have the same symptoms as cbelt3, in crowded situations I cannot make out conversations. I've had this condition for, it seems, most of my life. I hated going to parties, I always ended up being a wallflower as trying to have a conversation with any cute girl turned out to be an embarrassment due to not being able to pick up what she was saying. I suffer from tinnitis as well, all the time I hear a whistling noise. It became worse in my affected ear. I originally blamed it on being in the front rows by the speaker wall at a Kinks concert. I couldn't hear for three days afterward.

Interestingly enough, my wife also complained about the same thing as cbelt3, she had a hearing test done and the results also came back positive, she has none to minimal hearing loss.

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Sam3
I suffer from tinnitis as well, all the time I hear a whistling noise. It became worse in my affected ear. I originally blamed it on being in the front rows by the speaker wall at a Kinks concert. I couldn't hear for three days afterward.

Have you been professionally tested for tinnitus; to determine the extent of the hearing degradation and frequency ranges affected?
And why do you no longer consider exposure to the loud noise to be related to the tinnitus? Such exposure is the leading cause.

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DeusxMac

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Sam3
I suffer from tinnitus as well, all the time I hear a whistling noise. It became worse in my affected ear. I originally blamed it on being in the front rows by the speaker wall at a Kinks concert. I couldn't hear for three days afterward.

Have you been professionally tested for tinnitus; to determine the extent of the hearing degradation and frequency ranges affected?
And why do you no longer consider exposure to the loud noise to be related to the tinnitus? Such exposure is the leading cause.

Oh, I still do blame that, it's just that other concerts and parties also most likely contributed to the tinnitus.

My ENT doc didn't mention it. I assume that he'd know. Also, I'm not sure that insurance would cover it.

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Sam3
My ENT doc didn't mention it. I assume that he'd know. Also, I'm not sure that insurance would cover it.

Sounds like (no pun intended) like you should get that tinnitus checked; an ENT wouldn't do that.
And the only way to determine if insurance will cover it is to check/ask.