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Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: August 28, 2006 12:48PM
I know quite a bit about how record labels work. But suddenly I find myself needing to know a lot more and figure out what my options are... like all the options.

We know a few people who have made it big, but the more info we can find on this the sooner, the better off we'll be.

I know some of you know this stuff fairly well, so any input on how you would go about negotiating with a major label if you were an unsigned and mostly unknown artist, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 28, 2006 01:09PM
I don't think you have any leverage if you're unsigned and unknown. On the up side, you do get to be a rock star.



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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: August 28, 2006 01:29PM
You need an attorney with a specialty in Entertainment Law. Right away, there are lots of little clauses that they stick in the short-form agreement that can screw you later and contrary to popular opinion, those clauses are often negotiable.

Later when you see the size of the long-form, try not to faint.

Also, if you're part of a band, it's a good idea to make an agreement for the ownership of the name of the band and the songs, as well as royalty distributions *before* you sign.

So get a lawyer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2006 01:30PM by MacMagus.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: Effin Haole
Date: August 28, 2006 01:37PM
Get a lawyer, an entertainment lawyer.



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We must train our minds to desire what the situation demands.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2006 01:38PM
echo, echo - get a lawyer!

i've only worked with a small, grassroots indie label and i wouldn't have even done that without using a lawyer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2006 01:40PM by graylocks.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: JoeM
Date: August 28, 2006 01:40PM
More info really needed. Band, duo, single artist? Writing own material? Like above - get a good entertainment lawyer.

If there's writing involved, you need to join a performance rights org like ASCAP or BMI. Self- publishing? (good idea for writers to try and keep some publishing) - need to set up a publishing company.

Pick up This Business of Music:
[www.amazon.com]



JoeM
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: August 28, 2006 01:47PM
Single artists, writes her own music and lyrics. She currently self-publishes and has setup her own publishing company.




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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: prof
Date: August 28, 2006 02:00PM
I'll give you some advice that I wish someone had imparted to me before
it was too late. Be leery of signing any record contract, especially with
Columbia . I can't tell you how many crappy records I ended up having to
buy simply because I neglected to send in the refusal card....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2006 02:03PM by prof.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: JoeBob
Date: August 28, 2006 02:01PM
This covers the subject of why you need a lawyer who specializes in entertainment law for the uninitiated:
[mitvma.mit.edu]
Bruce Hornsby's brother is an outstanding lawyer in that field, some friends have used him for some contracts.
Unfortunately, he moved to Virginia, and I don't have his contact info anymore. Google?

The "rant" has saved two people I know from getting into some pretty crappy contracts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2006 02:09PM by JoeBob.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: incognegro
Date: August 28, 2006 02:40PM
search for Albini problem music online...
[www.google.com]

[www.ram.org]
read the article. read it again.

"Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying @#$%&. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the @#$%& stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the @#$%&. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke. And he does of course."

[en.wikipedia.org]

here's a list of Albini's recording projects. he's been around.
[en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: Fritz
Date: August 28, 2006 04:07PM
get a NY or LA entertainment lawyer with an established track record.
expect to pay $300-$500/hr.



!#$@@$#!

never do yesterday or today what you can put off til tomorrow or next year.

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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: incognegro
Date: August 28, 2006 04:38PM
more from the Albini article: be VERY VERY careful what you sign.

Quote
Steve Albini
These A & R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on.

The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little memo, is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band signs it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength.

These letters never have any terms of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another laborer even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.

One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all," A & R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises [something he did with similar effect to another well-known band], and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A & R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it.

The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: August 28, 2006 05:37PM
Make sure you get a Hummer, and some bling, and leave the details up to your business manager.

This is one of the few instances where Guitarman's input would have been valuable.


















OK, maybe not.





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: August 28, 2006 07:36PM
I've been out of the business for eight years, and much has changed, doubtless. But JoeM's advice (get a copy of This Business of Music) is a good start, as are the numerous calls to "Get an entertainment lawyer."

If you can't afford a lawyer, find someone who has experience on one side or another with recording contracts, and run yours by said person for a critique.

Make sure you've covered publishing rights, synchronization rights (film and TV), mechanical rights, and in this day and age, rights to Internet streaming and downloads via sites like iTunes (not to mention goodies like 'ringtones' based on your tunes, etc., etc.).

And then make sure that the company isn't going to spend a fortune recording and promoting your band, and then deduct it all as expenses. Might be better to hire a producer and make your own album, then flog it to various labels.

If you're not a national touring act with a following, no real label is going to be very interested, but you might find indie labels which will work a deal that will let you sell CDs at gigs—or forget the labels and just self-publish your own CD.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: mikebw
Date: August 28, 2006 11:20PM
Whatever happened to Guitarman? Did New Jersey claim another victim? I sort of miss his posts.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: ArtP
Date: August 28, 2006 11:23PM
Some good advice above, especially the Albini link, but it is based on the Rock Band/"I Want to Tour Band" type deal. They got a cool Tour Bus to ride on but got screwed on the deal, par for the course. That is soooo 70's.

Nowdays the way you REALLY get screwed is on Radio Airplay and Promotion. This site covers the Tour screw scenario like above, but as you can see if you take the time scan the topics, the Tour screw is ONLY about 10-25% of how badly you can be screwed. Radio Promotion is the way to get screwed now.

Radio Promotion and Airplay takes it to a whole new level:

[www.radio-media.com]

Although it is based on Indies marketing their own music, the signing with a label is also covered, the game doesn't change.

Complete list of topics covered:

[www.radio-media.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2006 11:25PM by ArtP.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 29, 2006 12:08AM
"You were puking up your guts when you read the standard contract you just signed." - Van Morrison

You WILL get screwed. They won't offer a contract otherwise. I've read you make as much selling 25,000 on your own CDs as you do selling a million with a label.

The band I played with got screwed with a label even though we had a labelmate helping us out. It would have been much, much worse if it weren't for her.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: JoeBob
Date: August 29, 2006 07:51AM
Quote
mikebw
Whatever happened to Guitarman? Did New Jersey claim another victim? I sort of miss his posts.

He is unbanned (for the moment) at Appleswitcher.
Changed his nick to Esteban.
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: incognegro
Date: August 29, 2006 09:04AM
check out this link:
[www.musicbizacademy.com]

from the linked page:
"This month and next month you will read about websites that help you sell your music. I spent hours researching this data so that you can have one reference source for the dozen plus sites that help. Over a dozen websites will be presented to you, so you can examine which sites are best for your circumstances when it comes to getting your music to the people."

"Many of these companies offer their services for free, others ask for reasonable fees for more elaborate music marketing plans. You will find here sites that help you sell your traditional CD, as well as ways for you to promote and circulate your MP3 files."

CDbaby looks good.
[www.cdbaby.com]
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Re: Questions about signing with a record label
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 29, 2006 01:45PM
OK, maybe not.

<Whew!> I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.






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