I thought I'd see if I could find a sub-$200 dollar iPod here in the Bay Area. When I checked they were all going for close to $300 dollars. That peeved me off so I alerted the "community" that they were for sale as refurbs at the Apple Store for just $199.

[post.craigslist.org]

Now, some of those that were expensive are now $200 dollars. But I'm getting a few inquiries wondering if I have any more to sell. I included a direct link to the Apple Store, so I don't get it. Typical text down below. I'd like to respond but I think they may be trolling for my "real" email address. Think so? By the way I edited my Craiglist text but the spelling errors are still there.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
** More Info: [www.craigslist.org]

Hello Seller
Am Lizzy i saw the item you listed on craigslist for sale i think my son will be much interested in the item,But i will like to NO if the item is still available for sale.Get back to me as soon as possible.
Thanks
Lizzy

--
__________________________________________________
Now you can search for products and services
[search.mail.com]
------------------------------------------------------------------
this message was remailed to you via: sale-204816668@craigslist.org



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2006 11:25PM by vision63.

Quote
vision63
But I'm getting a few inquiries wondering if I have any more to sell. I included a direct link to the Apple Store, so I don't get it. Typical text down below. I'd like to respond but I think they may be trolling for my "real" email address. Think so?

ya think???

to quote Carlos Mencia: DUH-DUHDUH!!

---

chas_m




[crawlingfromtheusa.blogspot.com] <-- Moving to Canada blog

hmm, your link sent me to a page where I am able to edit your craigslist post, you intend to do that?

Quote
Golfer
hmm, your link sent me to a page where I am able to edit your craigslist post, you intend to do that?

I did not. Not paying enough attention. I copied the link Craigslist sent back to me. I'll delete it and put the text below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
APPLE.COM - REFURB 30GB IPOD VIDEO $199 - $199 (oakland piedmont / montclair)

Reply to: sale-204816668@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-08, 5:04PM PDT

It seems silly for people to sell them for more than that, except maybe with extras. They are just like new with a full 1 year warrantee. While the last I'm sure. Apple will undoubtedly announce new iPods next week however.

[store.apple.com]

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

204816668

Hey, doofus, get a clue--they aren't SCAMMERS just because they put a price on their products that YOU don't like, or that's higher than somewhere else.

What the f are you thinking, anyway, calling them "scammers"? Are you saying they're OBLIGATED to (a) follow the prices everywhere else, and (b) change their prices to match or better the lowest price somewhere else?

You need to look up the word "scam" and understand that the world doesn't exist for your pleasure, that you buy it if it's a good deal and you don't if it's not. Period. But a price higher than you're willing to pay or that's higher than somewhere else doesn't mean it's a "SCAM" or that the person selling it is a "SCAMMER".

Jesus f'ing Christ on a crutch. You people amaze me.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

Some buyers on CL are probably the same folks who shop on eBay and overpay for everything they buy. More $$ than brains! A guy in DC was getting $250 for G3/300 iMacs (base model) just a few months back.

Quote
chas_m
to quote Carlos Mencia: DUH-DUHDUH!!

chas_m

"Dee, Dee, Dee"

Quote
elmo3
Hey, doofus, get a clue--they aren't SCAMMERS just because they put a price on their products that YOU don't like, or that's higher than somewhere else.

What the f are you thinking, anyway, calling them "scammers"? Are you saying they're OBLIGATED to (a) follow the prices everywhere else, and (b) change their prices to match or better the lowest price somewhere else?

You need to look up the word "scam" and understand that the world doesn't exist for your pleasure, that you buy it if it's a good deal and you don't if it's not. Period. But a price higher than you're willing to pay or that's higher than somewhere else doesn't mean it's a "SCAM" or that the person selling it is a "SCAMMER".

Jesus f'ing Christ on a crutch. You people amaze me.

mmm hmm, you must be one of 'em.

I'm with elmo3 on this one.

Its capitalism at work. An item is worth what someone is willing to sell it for and someone else is willing to buy it for.

Caveat Emptor.

Spock

---

Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

Well it may be "legal," but it's not ethical or moral to purposefully screw someone out of their money. You should always price items fairly.

Ever try to buy something on CL? I'm skeptical that much of anything listed there moves.

---

Quote
vision63

Quote
elmo3
Hey, doofus, get a clue--they aren't SCAMMERS just because they put a price on their products that YOU don't like, or that's higher than somewhere else.

What the f are you thinking, anyway, calling them "scammers"? Are you saying they're OBLIGATED to (a) follow the prices everywhere else, and (b) change their prices to match or better the lowest price somewhere else?

You need to look up the word "scam" and understand that the world doesn't exist for your pleasure, that you buy it if it's a good deal and you don't if it's not. Period. But a price higher than you're willing to pay or that's higher than somewhere else doesn't mean it's a "SCAM" or that the person selling it is a "SCAMMER".

Jesus f'ing Christ on a crutch. You people amaze me.

mmm hmm, you must be one of 'em.

Why would you say that?

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

Quote
vision63
Well it may be "legal," but it's not ethical or moral to purposefully screw someone out of their money. You should always price items fairly.

Define "fairly".

Why is it that I can buy a shirt at Kohl's for $35 one week, then for $2.50 the next week?

It's because there are plenty of people who CHOOSE not to chase after sales, who CHOOSE not to gamble that the item will be available later.

Consider Ron Popeil and his rotisserie thingy. He sold it initially at $400, then over the course of a couple years he dropped the price to $100. Sure, he dropped a few accessories, too--that's the name of the game. But people who HAD to have it, why shouldn't he have priced it at $400 for them initially? Once he had exhausted those people, he kept dropping the price until he got as much business as he wanted.

Movie tickets: many people HAVE to see it RIGHT NOW the MOMENT it becomes available to the general public, so they happily pay $9.50 for a ticket and $8 for popcorn. Many of us CHOOSE not to do that, because it's not important to US to see it the moment it becomes available to the general public; eventually, the movie industry gets all the $9.50 tickets it can out of the public, then moves it down the pike to the second run theaters and then to the dollar theaters and then to video, where I can rent it for a couple bucks or--gasp--BORROW IT FOR FREE from the library.

Are you saying that the movie industry is SCAMMING the public because it starts out charging $9.50 for the same thing that's only 50 cents a couple of months later???

By your logic, the $9.50 isn't a "fair" price because others won't charge that same amount for it later, or because the BFE Arkansas theater charges only $6 for a ticket on the same opening day that the Tyson's Corner theater charges $9.50. Gee, is that a SCAM?

You all need to get a clue. A very, very serious clue. Because you are not going to survive in the outside world very long or very well.

Plainly, you never listened when your parents told you that life isn't fair.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

elmo,

as usual, your attitude is sooooo charming! do you lack an outlet for this anger in the real world?

yes, its perfectly okay to charge what the market will bear. at the same time, its not ethical to take advantage of people's ignorance. somewhere between these statements lies the truth in this situation.

I think we're all a bit puzzled about your defensive posture in reaction to over priced goods on CL. At best, its annoying as all hell because most of it just doesn't move.

No, CL listed ipod prices aren't like Kohl's shirts or infomercial rotisseries or even movie tickets. We're talking about the price of goods on a second hand market. Its reasonable to expect these to go for less than new when new items are easily obtainable.

---

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2006 01:22PM by mattkime.

Quote
mattkime
yes, its perfectly okay to charge what the market will bear. at the same time, its not ethical to take advantage of people's ignorance.

You are on crack.

It is not anyone's responsibility to make you, me, or anyone else knowledgeable about a product or its pricing.

If someone CHOOSES to remain ignorant and just wants one regardless, and decides that the price of the product is fair, whose responsibility is that?

It's not mine. It's not yours. It's not that of the guy selling the product. His job--I know you'll find this hard to believe--is to bring the product and a willing buyer together.

Whatever motivates the buyer to be willing is not any concern of anyone else's. But you seem to be saying that it should be the concern of the guy selling the product? It's HIS responsibility to tell the buyer, "No no, you don't want it at that price. Yeah, I got it back when they were expensive and I can't sell it to you for any less, but look--there's a guy down the street who has it for less. Go there."

Yeah, right.

And you refuse to acknowledge that there are many, many factors that go into the buyer's decision that "hey, I'll buy that piece for that price". Sometimes--many times--it has nothing to do with price at all. Ever hear of the word "service"?

Quote

I think we're all a bit puzzled about your defensive posture in reaction to over priced goods on CL. At best, its annoying as all hell because most of it just doesn't move.

Then the marketplace works, doesn't it?

I don't have a DEFENSIVE posture; I simply can't believe that simpletons like you and vision63 are allowed to vote. You go screaming into the streets yelling "SCAMMER! SCAMMER!" when you see something priced at a point YOU wouldn't buy it for.

Well, it's not a scam. Not by any stretch of the imagination.




[/quote]No, CL listed ipod prices aren't like Kohl's shirts or infomercial rotisseries or even movie tickets. We're talking about the price of goods on a second hand market. Its reasonable to expect these to go for less than new when new items are easily obtainable.[/quote]

If you know that new items are available, yeah. But some people don't know. And some people don't care.

And if you didn't realize it, the used market is filled with unique goods. It is WAY different than the new market. That's why used car sales is very lucrative--every piece of product is unique.

But tell me why the $9.50 movie ticket isn't a scam when the BFE Arkansas theater is showing it for $6? When it'll be in the dollar theaters in three weeks?

I am truly, truly scared that you people can vote.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

elmo -

Are you familiar with the golden rule? Treat others as you wish to be treated.

I don't have any dealings with anyone for any reason if they don't generally live by that rule.

If I'm ignorant about something I'd appreciate to be educated, not taken advantage of.

While you're so dedicated to this idea that we're not responsible to educate each other - think about the number of elderly people that get ripped off. Bring someone elderly into the picture and you'll find a lot fewer people agreeing with you.

>>But some people don't know. And some people don't care.

....and thats not the market we're talking about here, is it?
>>Ever hear of the word "service"?

We're talking about CL, there is no service!!!

>>I am truly, truly scared that you people can vote.

I'm truly impressed by your ability to twist this into something it isn't.

Sorry, but much of your free market rhetoric doesn't apply here. Now get back to cleaning your gun rack.

---

The link is still not fixed. Miraculously noone has pranked you as of this point.
I admit to skipping Elmo's rants, sorry if this is redundant--

These people are obviously buying refurbs from the Apple Store and selling them at a profit.
I wouldn't call that a scam, but it does make them kind of not nice people.
It's nice of you to warn others, but you seem to be taking the whole thing way to heart.
Time for a new hobby perhaps?

Elmo, you need a beer and a neck massage.

Quote
h'
The link is still not fixed. Miraculously noone has pranked you as of this point.
I admit to skipping Elmo's rants, sorry if this is redundant--

These people are obviously buying refurbs from the Apple Store and selling them at a profit.
I wouldn't call that a scam, but it does make them kind of not nice people.
It's nice of you to warn others, but you seem to be taking the whole thing way to heart.
Time for a new hobby perhaps?

I'd not done it before. Do people actually make a hobby of warning others on craigslist?

Quote
vision63
Well it may be "legal," but it's not ethical or moral to purposefully screw someone out of their money. You should always price items fairly.

Forget CL, you should start with Micro$oft.

Spock

---

Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

Quote
vision63

Quote
h'
The link is still not fixed. Miraculously noone has pranked you as of this point.
I admit to skipping Elmo's rants, sorry if this is redundant--

These people are obviously buying refurbs from the Apple Store and selling them at a profit.
I wouldn't call that a scam, but it does make them kind of not nice people.
It's nice of you to warn others, but you seem to be taking the whole thing way to heart.
Time for a new hobby perhaps?

I'd not done it before. Do people actually make a hobby of warning others on craigslist?

I wasn't suggesting this was your hobby, only that you might be in need of one.

---

I suffer from the same sensitivity that you do. A few nuggets of wisdom were shared with me and I'm "trying" to incorporate them into my life. First, remember that nobody can hurt your feelings unless you let them. You can always reject what is being forced on you emotionally.
Second, nothing changes unless you change it. If you don't want the behavior to be repeated then you need to take action. Otherwise the kid has learned that his behavior is the way to get things done, because everyone lets him get away with it.
In the meantime I sympathize because I've been there.
-beerman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2006 03:49PM by h'.

Quote
mattkime
elmo -

Are you familiar with the golden rule? Treat others as you wish to be treated.

Very familiar with it. Are you familiar with the idea of caveat emptor? Of taking responsibilty for yourself and your own actions? Of the fact that life isn't fair, and it's no one else's job to take care of yourself but you?

It's a cruel world out there, and no one else cares about you but you. Deal with it.

Quote

If I'm ignorant about something I'd appreciate to be educated, not taken advantage of.

So give your business to someone who cares enough to educate you. Here's a tidbit: he charges you for that privilege, one way or the other. Is that taking advantage of you, or is that simply good business?

You can buy from a quick and dirty wholesaler/internet business, or you can go to a brick and mortar store and talk with someone live, meet the owner, and take their time up having them educate you and make you feel good. You don't expect that to be free, do you? You don't expect him to charge you the same as the internet guy in his basement who's simply brokering goods from Hong Kong, do you?

Quote

While you're so dedicated to this idea that we're not responsible to educate each other - think about the number of elderly people that get ripped off. Bring someone elderly into the picture and you'll find a lot fewer people agreeing with you.

This has nothing to do with elderly people (by the way, the way you talk about "elderly people" is discriminatory--as if by definition, they can't take care of themselves. Bulloney. My father is 80 years old and takes care of himself as well as he did when he was 40. Nobody rips him off, and he shouldn't deserve special treatment just because of his age).

Quote

We're talking about CL, there is no service!!!

Doesn't matter. We're talking about how someone should charge a "fair" price no matter what. Now you're changing the rules--somehow craigslist sellers are held to a different standard? There's a different definition of "fair" for them to follow??

The fact is, a fair price is what a seller and a buyer can agree on. Period. No one is obligated to offer a price that YOU think is appropriate.

In fact, by claiming that YOU are the arbiter of what's "fair," what does that make you?




btw, I don't own a gun. Never have. The last time I shot a gun was a .22 in summer camp, long long ago.

Gee, does that scare you that suddenly you can't fit me into your little predetermined mold anymore?

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

To answer the dude who asked if anyone ever bought stuff on Craigs...for sure here...lots of stuff all local. excellent experiences every time.

elmo wrote:

"Plainly, you never listened when your parents told you that life isn't fair."


Oh, I listened when I was told that. I also listened when they told me that it was no excuse to treat others unfairly. You plainly did not. Go sink back into your pit of loathing your fellow inhabitants of this world, you aren't contributing anything useful here or there.

---

Quote
JoeH
elmo wrote:

"Plainly, you never listened when your parents told you that life isn't fair."


Oh, I listened when I was told that. I also listened when they told me that it was no excuse to treat others unfairly. You plainly did not.

What about anything I've done indicates that I treat people unfairly?

You don't even know me, yet you make the accusation. Physician, heal thyself.

But a warning that life isn't fair, and caveat emptor? That's only common sense. To expect otherwise is at the very least to set yourself up for huge disappointment, and more likely to set yourself up for being left dead in a ditch.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

No elmo, I don't know you. But I have read your $^#$ quite enough to get a pretty good idea of your mindset. You reveal a lot through your writing here and elsewhere. If it is not a good representation of who and what you are in real life, that's on you. Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself.

---

Quote
JoeH
No elmo, I don't know you. But I have read your $^#$ quite enough to get a pretty good idea of your mindset. You reveal a lot through your writing here and elsewhere.

Really. Is that right.

How does any of that indicate that I "treat people unfairly"? And who defines "fair"? Apparently, vision63 defines "fair". Or is it your turn this week?

Well--then, you reveal quite a bit about yourself. And frankly, I have nothing to be ashamed about. You, on the other hand, should be worried every time you leave the house.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

I agree that just because the guy charges too much doesn't make him a scammer. That's
like something selling for twice what it should on an auction, it's worth whatever someone is
willing to pay for it. Everyone chill. It's Saturday night and all's well. Don't worry be happy!

What is the point of all this nastiness? How could something so benign, cause someone to literally expess such intolerance and rudeness? Not to mention the unprovoked snarkiness of some others?

It gets to a point where it's not about the subject that is at hand, but the manner in which it is being communicated.

Quote
vision63
What is the point of all this nastiness? How could something so benign, cause someone to literally expess such intolerance and rudeness?

That was actually my initial question regarding the original claim of "SCAMMERS!".

How could something so benign as a price that you don't like cause you to literally express such intolerance and rudeness and accusations of "SCAMMERS!?

Quote

It gets to a point where it's not about the subject that is at hand, but the manner in which it is being communicated.

This has EVERYTHING to do with the subject at hand--that is, you screaming "SCAMMERS!" when someone prices something at a point YOU don't like.

So it's Sunday now; does the job of defining what's "fair" change from you to someone else, or do you continue on for another week?

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2006 09:06AM by elmo3.

So do you email buyers on ebay and tell them that they are paying too much? Do you tell your high bidder to send you less money if the price seems too high to you?

The way I see it:

1) You are a nice guy who did something nice for strangers because it makes you feel good.

2) There are scams on CL. A seller asking for more money than what you think something is worth is not a scam.

Quote
elmo3

Quote
vision63
What is the point of all this nastiness? How could something so benign, cause someone to literally expess such intolerance and rudeness?

That was actually my initial question regarding the original claim of "SCAMMERS!".

How could something so benign as a price that you don't like cause you to literally express such intolerance and rudeness and accusations of "SCAMMERS!?

Quote

It gets to a point where it's not about the subject that is at hand, but the manner in which it is being communicated.

This has EVERYTHING to do with the subject at hand--that is, you screaming "SCAMMERS!" when someone prices something at a point YOU don't like.

So it's Sunday now; does the job of defining what's "fair" change from you to someone else, or do you continue on for another week?

The people I accuse of being scammers can speak for themselves. I believe that they are. You don't. That's the end of that. Why would you feel a need to defend them? The people you call names (unprovoked) are right here. What justification would you have to initiate calling someone that you are actively communicating with a name?

I didn't call you a name. I didn't say anything negative about you. I never have. Baby Tats just expressed him/herself with the exact same message you did without any disparagement, discourtesy or hostility.

Quote
vision63
The people I accuse of being scammers can speak for themselves. I believe that they are. You don't. That's the end of that. Why would you feel a need to defend them?

I'm not defending them so much as educating you as to what a scam is and when to lob the accusation. Just because YOU think a price is too high doesn't make it a "scam".

See what Baby Tats had to say on the subject.

I'll ask again: is it still your week to define what's "fair", or have you turned that over to someone else?

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

elmo, regardless of what you say, I'm still going to believe that many, if not most of them are. I respect your feelings regarding how you feel about that. You have a right to your perspective. Hopefully, we can agree to dissagree.

If a car is on a lot that is really high demand and they put a premium on of say $4k does that
make them a scammer, not in my book. I've seen this happen on several occasions. If I'm
shopping somewhere that I feel most people are scammers I would not go back and look
anymore there's no need.

Gratefull11, if a car is on a lot that is in apparant high demand, but it available everywhere you look and some-places for much much less, and despite that fact they put a $4k premium on the vehicle, then I'd call them a scammer. It's not illegal, but it's unsavory. Based on the scenario you presented, I agree with you.

I wasn't initially aware of this, but they are also selling refurbished iPods and selling them as new. After I placed the alert, the scammers adjusted their prices.

Quote
vision63
Gratefull11, if a car is on a lot that is in apparant high demand, but it available everywhere you look and some-places for much much less, and despite that fact they put a $4k premium on the vehicle, then I'd call them a scammer.

Then you have absolutely no idea what a scam actually is.

And by diluting the word, you take away an important tool used for communicating important information to people.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

Have we come to the conclusion that elmo is the scammer/capitalist?

---

******************************

******************************

Quote
SteveJobs
Have we come to the conclusion that elmo is the scammer/capitalist?

Yeah, it must be me. That's why I'm so vocal about it, right?

As opposed to the op, who was not only vocal here BUT also went in and interfered with the businesses of the people who had listings up. Of course, it's OK for HIM to be vocal about it, right? But no one else, right? Because after all, he's RIGHT, right? I mean, if the price is higher than another guy, by definition it's a scam, right?

See my .sig below.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson