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private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: space-time
Date: April 29, 2014 10:38AM
Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: April 29, 2014 10:42AM
Is this where the unrelated discovery turns out to be the wreck of an alien space ship?
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: April 29, 2014 11:01AM
So the governments of several nations have been searching for weeks and found nothing, but they disregard a possible find because it's not located where the governments have been searching for several weeks while finding nothing.
Okay.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: April 29, 2014 11:14AM
If you can't find something where it's supposed to be, it's time to start looking where it's not supposed to be.

Feel free to use this quote wherever and whenever appropriate.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: billb
Date: April 29, 2014 11:16AM
seems to me this private company is being very careful not to claim it has found the wreckage but has found something that could be consistent with wreckage.

With so many other leads and evidence pointing to where they are looking what resources can/should be spared /requisitioned to check their find out ?


Shirley someone, somewhere is considering it.
or not

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2014 11:25AM by billb.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: April 29, 2014 11:16AM
Quote
Steve G.
Is this where the unrelated discovery turns out to be the wreck of an alien space ship?

Ever read "Sphere"? (Forget the movie.)



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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: RgrF
Date: April 29, 2014 11:49AM
CNN gets to live for another day.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: 3d
Date: April 29, 2014 11:58AM
"So officials are moving on to the next phase: a more intense underwater search that will use private contractors and could cost about $56 million."

Alot of money to be made by prolonging the search.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: MikeF
Date: April 29, 2014 12:17PM
Quote
CNN
"The Joint Agency Coordination Centre, which is coordinating the multinational search, dismissed the claim."

That group recently removed "Of Foreign Flights" from their title as the acronym was seen to hit too close to home. grinning smiley
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: decay
Date: April 29, 2014 01:04PM




---
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: davester
Date: April 29, 2014 02:53PM
Take a look at their website. It sounds like pure snake oil and pseudoscientific psychobabble. [georesonance.com]

The link to how their technology works is "under construction".



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: April 29, 2014 03:08PM
Quote
davester
Take a look at their website. It sounds like pure snake oil and pseudoscientific psychobabble. [georesonance.com]

The link to how their technology works is "under construction".

Sounds kind of like this...

[en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 29, 2014 08:01PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
davester
Take a look at their website. It sounds like pure snake oil and pseudoscientific psychobabble. [georesonance.com]

The link to how their technology works is "under construction".

Sounds kind of like this...

[en.wikipedia.org]

Maybe more like this. . .

[www.e-education.psu.edu]

[www.asdi.com]

I haven't read the details, but this technology looks legit.

Isn't this close to your field, Davester?

/Mr Lynn



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Saturdays 9am - 11am Eastern
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Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
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The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

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On the river in Saxonville.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2014 08:03PM by mrlynn.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: space-time
Date: April 29, 2014 09:01PM
here are some images; if these images are genuine, they have a pretty good damn resolution, so they should just go and fish it out, no search needed.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]





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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 29, 2014 09:10PM
that is really cool science, I'd never heard of that technology before

of course if that does turn out to be 370, then there's the problem of the satellite data being wrong, and it's going to make that "cool science" look really sketchy.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 29, 2014 10:40PM
Remember the woman who said she looked out the window of a plane flying from South India to Malaysia and saw a plane in the water? She said it was near the Andamans, but she could have been off a bit.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 29, 2014 10:55PM
Quote
mrlynn
Remember the woman who said she looked out the window of a plane flying from South India to Malaysia and saw a plane in the water? She said it was near the Andamans, but she could have been off a bit.

/Mr Lynn

This company's finding is off the coast of Bangladesh? That would be 700-800 or so miles away from the Andaman Islands.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Chakravartin
Date: April 29, 2014 10:57PM
Quote
davester
Take a look at their website. It sounds like pure snake oil and pseudoscientific psychobabble. [georesonance.com]

Yeah, first thing that I did when I saw that story was hit their web site. It looks like it was made by a talented high school student with a list of buzzwords s/he had to hit on every page.

The principles that they claim to exploit do not fit the results they claim to get.

They make it seem that they're talking about cutting edge nuclear/magnetic resonance imaging, like a satellite-mounted MRI machine with resolution that can detect the finest mineral deposits. (How much power would that take??)

But have a look at the size of the machine that real scientists use just to look at a few molecules:
[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't think that their "scientists" have solved the energy and scaling problems of such devices. It would take a breakthrough that would make a modern Einstein @#$%& himself and babble like an imbecile.

My guess is that they're using cheap magnetometers and liberally adjusting the results in Photoshop. Little more than modern witches with dowsing rods. (With all respect to Wiccans, whom I hope will understand that I'm not referring to them or their religious practices.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2014 10:59PM by Chakravartin.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Black
Date: April 29, 2014 11:17PM


I'm pretty sure the one on the right is going to be a boy.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 29, 2014 11:17PM
Is GeoResonance trying to get hired to go look in the Indian Ocean? Wonder what they charge? They apparently did this other research on their own dime.

I mean if they can spot a plane underwater, why not hire them? Unless they can't. Or the depth is too great. have no idea. I tried to look them up and found a few articles about the lead partner, who is Ukrainian. A number of US oil and gas companies have hired them as well as international firms, so who knows.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 29, 2014 11:18PM
Quote
Black


I'm pretty sure the one on the right is going to be a boy.

LOL
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: April 29, 2014 11:19PM
The wayback machine has just 4 archives of their website going back to 2011.

The oldest, Jan 28, 2011, maybe some other company owned the domain then.
[web.archive.org]

June 4, 2013, the current company, website under construction.
[web.archive.org]

Jan 4, 2014, still under construction
[web.archive.org]

Apr 30, 2014, (tomorrow, wayback machine seems to be bidirectional), and the archived site seems to have more info than the live version.
[web.archive.org]
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: April 29, 2014 11:53PM
Quote
space-time
here are some images; if these images are genuine, they have a pretty good damn resolution, so they should just go and fish it out, no search needed.

And a perfect direct south orientation, and the wreckage seems to be fully intact.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: April 30, 2014 03:01AM
Found one article from exactly a year ago about them.

[www.adelaidenow.com.au]

Pavel Kursa seems to be the guy running it.

Quote

Mr Kursa, who has been in and out of Australia since 1998, said he was not a scientist or physicist but had received military education and had specialised in radar technology in his now-home country Ukraine.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 30, 2014 05:29AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrlynn
Remember the woman who said she looked out the window of a plane flying from South India to Malaysia and saw a plane in the water? She said it was near the Andamans, but she could have been off a bit.

/Mr Lynn

This company's finding is off the coast of Bangladesh? That would be 700-800 or so miles away from the Andaman Islands.

True, but they were flying at c. 35k feet, and the woman might have just guessed at their location.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 30, 2014 08:59AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrlynn
Remember the woman who said she looked out the window of a plane flying from South India to Malaysia and saw a plane in the water? She said it was near the Andamans, but she could have been off a bit.

/Mr Lynn

This company's finding is off the coast of Bangladesh? That would be 700-800 or so miles away from the Andaman Islands.

True, but they were flying at c. 35k feet, and the woman might have just guessed at their location.

/Mr Lynn

Her flight was from southern India to Malaysia, right? I don't know the flight path but what would they be doing near Bangladesh?
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 30, 2014 10:19AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrlynn
Remember the woman who said she looked out the window of a plane flying from South India to Malaysia and saw a plane in the water? She said it was near the Andamans, but she could have been off a bit.

/Mr Lynn

This company's finding is off the coast of Bangladesh? That would be 700-800 or so miles away from the Andaman Islands.

True, but they were flying at c. 35k feet, and the woman might have just guessed at their location.

/Mr Lynn

Her flight was from southern India to Malaysia, right? I don't know the flight path but what would they be doing near Bangladesh?

Depends on the flight path:



Could easily have curved slightly north; depends on the standard routes, and where in South India it originated. I remember when my wife flew to Nevada from Boston, she was surprised when they went up by the Great Lakes.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 30, 2014 01:55PM
"Dalelah says she looked at the in-flight monitors in the cabin that showed the plane was over the Indian Ocean at the time. It had just passed the South Indian city of Chennai."

Chennai is 1,200 miles from Bangladesh. I don't think the plane drifted underwater from off coast of Chennai to 100 miles off the coast of Bangladesh within a day or two.

Who knows maybe they should be looking off the coast of Chennai, but so far there is nothing to corroborate that lady's story.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 30, 2014 04:23PM
LD: Certainly a distance of 100 miles makes the connection less plausible. I was going on the subhead in the Mail story that read:

Quote

The site - 1000 miles from Bangladesh in the Bay of Bengal - is at the northern tip of the initial search area

to which the arrow on the map would seem to correspond. However, further down in the body of the story, I read:

Quote

Tech firm GeoResonance claims its sensor technology has found the wreckage of a plane in the Bay of Bengal, 118 miles south of Bangladesh. . .

which seems to be confirmed elsewhere, e.g. here:

[english.astroawani.com]

The distance is cited as 190 km, which is a little over 100 miles.

Whatever, the GeoResonance report is certainly worth pursuing. They claim they sent it to the relevant authorities back on March 31st, and received no replies, which could be a scandal in itself.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: April 30, 2014 08:55PM
Quote
mrlynn
Whatever, the GeoResonance report is certainly worth pursuing. They claim they sent it to the relevant authorities back on March 31st, and received no replies, which could be a scandal in itself.

/Mr Lynn

[www.cnn.com]

Quote

GeoResonance Managing Director Pavel Kursa, citing intellectual property concerns, would not explain how the imaging works.

Quote

CNN aviation expert Miles O'Brien said GeoResonance's claims are not supported by experts. "My blood is boiling," he told CNN's "New Day." "I've talked to the leading experts in satellite imaging capability at NASA, and they know of no technology that is capable of doing this. I am just horrified that a company would use this event to gain attention like this."

He called on company officials to offer "a full explanation" for their assertion, which he said appeared to be based on "magic box" technology.

Sending investigators to the Bay of Bengal would draw away from the limited resources that are focused in the southern Indian Ocean, O'Brien said.

But that won't stop them from going, he predicted. "I think they have to," he said. "It's a public relations thing now."
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370--OK, this is going to be long. Apologies beforehand.
Posted by: Diana
Date: April 30, 2014 10:01PM
This is going to be pretty long, but first I have to set up some things. I need to make sure I am explaining it to the depth and level to make my point.

According to their website, they are using “airborne imaging spectroscopy” for multispectral remote sensing. They supposedly use satellites currently in orbit to do this imaging.

Let's look at this. From an analytical instrument standpoint, the term “spectroscopy” means that you are using wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum, whether it is gamma rays, microwaves, ultraviolet rays, visible wavelengths, infrared, or whatever. I'll call this region of the electromagnetic spectrum the satellite utilizes just “radiation” because I don't know what the region really is. This kind of analysis really is long-range spectroscopy: the atoms of the elements being looked for (the analytes) have to interact WITH the radiation in question, and then the sensor can read the change, either absorption or emission, of the radiation.

An example of this would be UV/Vis (ultraviolet/visible) spectroscopy. A sample is placed in line with a beam of light, either in the ultraviolet or visible range (or both) and the absorption of the light is determined from the amount of light that is detected after going through the sample. The light is absorbed by the molecules of the analyte and this energy is dissipated in some manner by the sample. We typically will see that the energy is absorbed at certain wavelengths, but not at others, and it is from these tell-tale spectra we can make a determination as to what the sample MAY be. The spectra may not be specific enough to make a definitive determination, but it is a start.

What if the analyte doesn't respond to the radiation? It can't be detected. It is as simple as that.

How close does the radiation have to come to the analyte? It has to interact with it, so pretty damn close. How close does the detector have to come to the analyte? That depends on the nature of the testing being done. Spectroscopy as noted above can be done at a pretty far distance.

So far, so good. Now for the rest of it. They claim they use these technologies:

1. Earth Remote Sensing: This I'll believe, but only to a certain point. If remote sensing was able to get you information about where oil and gas reserves are located, then the drilling companies wouldn't have any excuse to come up dry would they? All these companies involved with prospecting for oil/gas/minerals/what-have-you would be using them, wouldn't they?

2. Multispectral imaging: again, so far so good. See above.

3. Gamma radiation: ditto. This should be good as well. All of these are easily attained by what they first claim they are using.

4. Radiation chemistry. Whoa. For them to use this, they have to be a lot closer than several thousand meters to the analyte (or object). There are three kinds of radiation used in “radiation chemistry:” alpha, beta, and gamma. Alpha and beta particles are easily blocked. A sheet of paper can do it for alpha, and clothing is usually considered good for beta. Gamma rays require the lead shields, six feet of earth, that kind of thing. So for a remote standpoint, only gamma rays would be applicable. Most people using “radiation chemistry” use alpha/beta emitters in trace amounts to determine such things as mechanisms of chemical reactions or where specific antibodies/antigens/drugs or whatever are taken up in living systems or metabolic byproducts from the administration of the compound. So, this one seems to amount to #3 above. Uh...right. Uh...no.

5. NMR spectroscopy. REALLY!!!???? Nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy depends on the spin of the nuclei of the elemental isotope being examined. Some isotopes will have integral spins, and some will have fractional spins. Some isotopes have no spin at all. If we look at elements with spin of 1/2, we will find that when the element is in the presence of an external magnetic field, two spin states will exist: +1/2 and –1/2: They spin in opposite directions, but the energy related to the two spins is not the same. The -1/2 state is higher in energy than the +1/2 state. Thus is a difference in energy associated with the two spin states, and the amount of the difference depends on the strength of the external magnetic field: the stronger the magnetic field, the greater the difference in energy. For NMR spectroscopy to be viable, the analyte must first have a spin, and secondly it must be subjected to strong magnetic fields.

The earth's magnetic field is not constant, but is approximately 0.0001 T (tesla) at ground level. Modern NMR spectrometers use magnetic fields of 1 to 20 T, and typically get a difference in energy between the two spins of less than 0.1 cal/mol. [“cal” here is calorie, a unit of energy, and is 0.0001 Calories, meaning the kind you measure for your food intake. One thousand calories (chemical energy) is one Calorie (food energy). A “mol” is a mole of a substance, 6.022 times 10 to the power of 23 (6.022 x 10^23) atoms of the substance. A mole is just a number, like a dozen is a number. If you want to know the mass of a mole of a substance, look on a periodic table. A mole of aluminum weighs 26.98 grams; a mole of titanium has a mass of 47.87 grams.]

Now that we have set this up, the fun can start. You hit the analyte with radio frequency (rf) energy at right angles to the magnetic field. If rf energy corresponds EXACTLY to the energy difference in the spin state separation of given set of nuclei, the nuclei will excite from the lower +1/2 state to the higher -1/2 state. For elements with spin 1/2, the difference between these two states at a given magnetic field strength is proportional to their magnetic moments, and thus the NMR instrument will have to be tuned to the specific elements being investigated. To give you a perspective of how many nuclei we are talking about, at room temperature the two states are nearly equally populated. In a magnetic field of 2.34 T the excess population in the lower energy state is only six nuclei per million nuclei present. Even at this small numbers, it is enough to measure.

However, this jump to the higher energy state is unsustainable over the long term, and the nuclei will relax back down to their previous energy states, giving off rf energy. This rf energy can be easily absorbed (as it is weak indeed) and thus the detector must be close to the sample. If radio waves were not affected by atmospheric conditions or by water, then it wouldn't attenuate so badly with distance and obstructions! The range of frequencies used fall within the radio/television region of the electromagnetic spectrum, and I don't think that the FCC would allow a company to use strong sources of such at great distances. Too much rf energy and you get saturation at the higher spin state and useful signals disappear. Too little rf energy and you get no flip.

Another complication is the temperature of the sample: the molecules in contact with the sample can induce local fluctuating electromagnetic fields that possibly match the frequency of the nucleus being studied. This is necessary, since the spinning nucleus does not spontaneously change its spin state without something nudging it. The efficiency of this mechanism depends on temperature and viscosity of the solution, and thus, NMR spectroscopy is normally done in the liquid phase, either as a solution or as a neat solution. This is not the only mechanism involved in relaxation, but I won't get into it here. The upshot here is that the deeper you go the colder and more viscous the water, and thus the relaxation time can change. Longer relaxation times are less efficient, and thus the signals become weaker.

Samples submitted for NMR analysis are typically small and put in sealed glass tubes. The sample itself is spun to average any magnetic field variations and also to average any aberrant signal due to any imperfections in the tube. The tube is placed between the poles of two powerful magnets. The rf pulse is delivered, and the relaxation emission signal is monitored by a receiver coil that surrounds the sample. You can vary the magnetic field over a small range while observing the rf emitted, or vary the rf pulse within a fixed magnetic field and observe the rf emitted.

High resolution continuous wave (CW) NMR takes time, (as much as 10 minutes or more) as it takes a while to sweep the region of interest. Conditions MUST remain constant during this entire time.

Lower resolution NMR can be faster: you it it with a very short relatively strong burst of rf energy to excite all the nuclei simultaneously, and it takes just a few seconds. However, you get overlapping relaxation signals because each nuclei will emit as it relaxes. Such signals are analyzed using Fourier transform mathematical analysis, and it is repeated three times and the results are combined.

High resolution NMR is not feasible on copper, as the peaks are too broad and the energy shift too wide. For nickel, NMR may not be feasible at all; it appears that it depends on the nickel complex being studied. Paramagnetic NMR is apparently possible, but resolution and detail is not there. It will take a LOT more scans to get it (10,000 anyone?), and the sweep window will have to be correspondingly enlarged.

There is such a thing as solid state NMR, but it appears that the line broadening is worse with it than you would see with liquid NMR.

Somehow, long-distance NMR just doesn't seem feasible to me.

6. The last “technology” is proprietary know-how. Let's wave the hands and proclaim ourselves to be experts, but we can't tell you because it's proprietary. If we told you, it's assimilation or death. Maybe. And anyone stating that he cannot tell you the technique he used to determine the result he got because it is "proprietary" is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. He doesn't have to tell me in painful detail everything about his instrumentation, but he better be able to explain it to my satisfaction. Where are his satisfied customers? I'm not seeing any.

If I'm wrong, tell me. I can always learn something new. NMR was not my specialty in graduate school, but as it was on the curriculum, I had to learn it.

My take on this guy? Run away. Run far away.
Diana
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: April 30, 2014 10:04PM
I don't understand the reference in the CNN article to "satellite imaging capability at NASA." My impression was that the GeoResonance data was from airborne instruments. When I read "airborne" I think airplanes.

The CNN article says,

Quote

The Adelaide-based firm GeoResonance has said that electromagnetic fields captured by airborne multispectral images some 118 miles (190 kilometers) off the coast of Bangladesh in the Bay of Bengal showed evidence of aluminum, titanium, copper and other elements that could have been part of the Boeing 777-200ER, which disappeared from radar on March 8 while en route from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing
.

Edit: Just read Diana's exposition above. Good stuff. Need to re-read, but sounds like she is saying that some spectroscopic techniques can conceivably work from a distance (even from orbit?), but not NMR. That makes sense. Do we know if they're using aircraft or satellites? If the latter, would this company have had the resources to launch their own satellite(s)?

I haven't seen any discussion of the company's techniques. Do they claim they're using all the ones that Diana mentions? Link?

/Mr Lynn



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2014 10:24PM by mrlynn.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 30, 2014 11:16PM
Diana, thanks.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Diana
Date: April 30, 2014 11:26PM
Such long distance techniques would work just as well from satellite as from plane. Some spectroscopic techniques are readily used in astronomy, where the distances are not in miles but light years.

The six "techniques" I found was from their website. Linky: linky

Further down the page they give depths at which they are able to sense various materials, such as hydrocarbons at less than 5,000 meters. 5K is about 3 miles. That's quite some distance--through rock and all. But they can only sense minerals at 1500 meters, about 0.9 miles (or less). All with a "sensitivity" of 1 to 1.5 grams/ton. "Grams of what? Ton of what?" you ask. That is not stated. "English ton? Metric ton?" Again, that is not stated.

They also state:

"We combine all techniques in one proprietary patented methodology. Some of our patents are: 86496-UA, 35122-UA, 2007A000247-EU."

I haven't looked up the patents. If you find anything of interest, let us know.

Diana
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: Diana
Date: April 30, 2014 11:28PM
Speedy, you're welcome.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 01, 2014 12:53AM
If they do convince someone to do an underwater search at the location they specified, I think there is a good chance that "something" will be found. It won't be a Boeing 777, and it most likely was there for longer than a month, and it's probably some sunken wreck (ship or aircraft) that GeoResonance knows about, which is why they picked that exact location.

But it will serve their purpose of claiming that their technology works in a very public way, when in reality it's all a con and there was no technology involved.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: May 01, 2014 08:21AM
Well, I fear Diana and GGD are right: the company and its 'technology' seem to be fraudulent. There's a lot of interesting discussion at this 'debunk' forum:

[www.metabunk.org]

The principal in this GeoResonance company, Vitaly Gokh, has his own website:

[www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru]

which will lead you into quite astonishing directions. He claims, for instance, that there is a system of 'pyramids' around the Earth that are transmitting 'energy' to and from distant stars. And he maintains that the center of the Earth holds a fusion reactor! Not nuclear fission, which has been speculated, but fusion!

[www.nampyramids.narod.ru]

That page will give you a headache, both visually and mentally.

However, someone on the Metabunked forum links to a company in Scotland that does do underground imagining with technology they actually describe:

[adrokgroup.com]

They claim to be using 'Atomic Dielectric Resonance', described here:

[adrokgroup.com]

The ADR technology is described in this paper in the International Journal of Remote Sensing:

"Ground penetrating abilities of a new coherent radio wave and microwave imaging spectrometer"
[www.tandfonline.com]

This certainly sounds legit, so I suppose it's conceivable Vitaly Gokh and friends have latched onto similar equipment. But their history suggests otherwise.

/Mr Lynn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2014 08:24AM by mrlynn.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: davester
Date: May 01, 2014 09:00AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
GGD
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davester
Take a look at their website. It sounds like pure snake oil and pseudoscientific psychobabble. [georesonance.com]

The link to how their technology works is "under construction".

Sounds kind of like this...

[en.wikipedia.org]

Maybe more like this. . .

[www.e-education.psu.edu]

[www.asdi.com]

I haven't read the details, but this technology looks legit.

Isn't this close to your field, Davester?

/Mr Lynn

Yes Mr Lynn, I've done a lot of work in the past obtaining,interpreting and modeling satellite and airborne remote sensIng data, including multispectral scanner and geophysical data. I came back to this thread to explain why GeoResonance's pseudoscience nonsense got my skeptical spidey senses tingling. However, Diana has ably done that already.They are not the first company to make broad and indefensible claims regarding a proprietary ability to sniff out resources from beneath the earth's surface using magic boxes and they will not be the last. It's one thing to try to convince unsuspecting rich oil men to give you money for your magic box results, but it's far more despicable to raise the hopes of those searching for their loved ones just so that you can make a buck.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2014 09:00AM by davester.
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: May 01, 2014 12:35PM
Davester, how about that Adrok company? Is theirs just a 'magic box' too?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: private company claims that it found wreckage of MH 370
Posted by: davester
Date: May 01, 2014 08:47PM
Quote
mrlynn
Davester, how about that Adrok company? Is theirs just a 'magic box' too?

/Mr Lynn

I'm not as 100% certain as with GeoResonance, but it seems unlikely that EM energy can penetrate earth materials to the depths they claim so they may just be another "magic box" company. They do appear to have one peer-reviewed paper to their name, but that might just have been because they managed to game the peer review system at that one journal. Again, their website does not inspire confidence since it shows nothing of their technology other than a standard. My BS detector as at "9".



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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