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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: davester
Date: February 12, 2015 07:06PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
Rick-o
Yes, always. But not for safety. It's just so I don't give the police another reason to pull me over.

I feel it should be your own choice whether you wear a seatbelt or not. Same as with a helmet on a motorcycle, and life jacket on a boat.

Get yer government out of my face!

"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. Let me live my life the way I want to."

-Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love

Sure, as long as you sign a binding waiver that if you are disabled because of your decision, no public funds will be used for your care.

I'm all for personal choice, but at least as importantly, personal responsibility. Your bad choice, you own the result.

Ditto, but I'd like to add the stipulation that you can't sue anybody else for causing your injuries either, even if it was their fault that they ran into your car.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: davester
Date: February 12, 2015 07:10PM
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 07:11PM by davester.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: February 12, 2015 07:16PM
I do not drive without belting in, it saved my life.



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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 12, 2015 07:18PM
Yes.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: February 12, 2015 07:22PM
Usually use a seat belt. But for about a year I did not because of abdominal surgery, etc. that made using one both a bit painful and could potentially cause problems.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: rz
Date: February 12, 2015 08:08PM
If I'm driving inside my neighborhood, or I'm moving my car at work in the parking lot, I don't usually bother. Otherwise, always.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: space-time
Date: February 12, 2015 08:47PM
I forgot to mention that I wear the seat belt when I am parked I the side of the road waiting to pick up the kid for school or spouse to come out of a store. Even when my engine is off. Why? Because someone else could crash into me and I don't want to be thrown out of the car.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: lost in space
Date: February 12, 2015 09:15PM
Absolutely always. Saved my life too.

There's always going to be anecdotes like this one, My brother was in a nasty head-on years ago, hit by a drunk driver on the wrong side of the freeway in a 60s Caddy, both going over 60. My bro's car didn't have seat belts. He was thrown to the floor before the steering wheel got pushed to the ceiling. With a belt, he'd have been beheaded. Still, he wears them.



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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 12, 2015 09:22PM
Quote
davester
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.

QFE.

There are an extremely smll number of people (less than 1 in a million) who will have a dangerous adverse reaction to a vaccine as a result of something in them. That's less than 300 people in the US as an example. The rest who do not vaccinate are fools who risk the health of the rest of the population. If you're worried, you can get tested first.

For the rest, it's all about risk vs. benefit. Vaccinations have very low (but not zero) risk and enormous benefits. Do every one of these people all not drive a car (to use an on topic example) for the same reasons?
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 12, 2015 09:26PM
Ever since I was a little kid and NOBODY wore them I would make my Mother, Sister and Brother dig 'em out and wear them. My most annoying phase (of many).
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 12, 2015 09:30PM
Me and anyone else in the vehicle will wear a seatbelt 100% of the time.

Why? When I was 20 years old my cousin was in a Jeep CJ coming home from a nightclub. The driver was
wearing his seatbelt and walked away with minor cuts and bruises, my cousin was not wearing his. The
driver claimed to have hit patch of ice on the road coming out of Winston-Salem on Hwy. 52 and lost
control. The Jeep rolled approx. 3 times. My cousin was thrown from the Jeep that was outfitted with a full
roll cage. My cousin, they think, initially landed on his head and then his back. The suffered severe brain
trauma. His back is covered with scars from skidding across the pavement. Luckily he had no other broken
bones other than a skull fracture. Within 24 hours they had drill a hole in his head to relieve the pressure
on his brain. At some point they think he suffered a stroke. He was in a coma for about 3 weeks. He had
learn how walk and talk again. He was in sophomore in college with a great good future ahead of him.
To this day, his voice is completely different and still has a random uncontrollable laugh. He finally
did graduate from college about 10 years later.

From that day forward I've always worn my seatbelt.



Grateful11
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 12:07AM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
Rick-o
Yes, always. But not for safety. It's just so I don't give the police another reason to pull me over.

I feel it should be your own choice whether you wear a seatbelt or not. Same as with a helmet on a motorcycle, and life jacket on a boat.

Get yer government out of my face!

"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. Let me live my life the way I want to."

-Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love

Sure, as long as you sign a binding waiver that if you are disabled because of your decision, no public funds will be used for your care.

I'm all for personal choice, but at least as importantly, personal responsibility. Your bad choice, you own the result.

100% this.



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 12:14AM
Quote
PizzaGod
I do-but here is a stupid story.

It was July 3, 2004 and I was driving a 1999 Ford F150 (a not great vehicle) towing a large Generator. Don't ask why but no seat belt on the expressway. My mind was elsewhere.

Somebody enters the expressway (I-275) and it's wet and slick and she starts swerving almost instantly. She collides with me, the generator breaks loose (a 75kw unit-probably weighed near what the truck did) I'm sent all over the road. I am not wearing a seatbelt.

I crash into a stanchion. I'm thrown from the seat to the floor. A CO2 tank that was loose in the bed of the truck comes sailing through the back window. It comes straight across the drivers seat, through the windshield.

I was a total fool to not be wearing my seatbelt. I know that, I acknowledge that, and I wear them all the time now. But if I'd had mine on that day, I would have been killed or paralyzed for life. As it was I had a lot of glass in my face and eyes.

I had my employees come pick me up, I worked the 4th of July (big day for me) and then after the fireworks, spent the night in the hospital having glass pulled out of my eyes.

Yes-I wear one now all the time. Screw the stories of being trapped or how they are somehow "unsafe" I'm just luckier than I deserve.

That's not an argument against wearing seat belts - that is an argument for securing any load being transported in the back of your truck.



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 12:16AM
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

What REASONABLE argument can you offer against vaccination?



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 12:19AM
Quote
billb
Quote
Rick-o
So why do most school busses not have them?

School busses are built to a different safety standard than cars and have an inherent size, height and weight safety advantage.

None of those factors will keep a child who isn't wearing a seatbelt from flying into the seat in front of him in the event of a front-end collision.



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 13, 2015 05:34AM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
billb
Quote
Rick-o
So why do most school busses not have them?

School busses are built to a different safety standard than cars and have an inherent size, height and weight safety advantage.

None of those factors will keep a child who isn't wearing a seatbelt from flying into the seat in front of him in the event of a front-end collision.

True. Which is why the seat backs are heavily padded. Roll-overs or a collision with a large vehicle have caused the death of children on school busses. Cost seems to be the driver of no belts. Not the cost of the belt but the cost to enforce the use of the belt. Even having a bus helper is no guaranty a kid will properly wear a belt.

This story was on our local news last evening (includes dash cam video of the school bus going into a ditch):

[minnesota.cbslocal.com]



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 06:02AM by Speedy.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: billb
Date: February 13, 2015 06:32AM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
billb
Quote
Rick-o
So why do most school busses not have them?

School busses are built to a different safety standard than cars and have an inherent size, height and weight safety advantage.

None of those factors will keep a child who isn't wearing a seatbelt from flying into the seat in front of him in the event of a front-end collision.

Statistics bear out that the seat design and compartmentalization design along with the mass of the 5+ ton bus limits the "flying". It just doesn't happen, fortunately.



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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 13, 2015 08:03AM
Yes. Feels "wrong" physically if I don't, as I've been using one ever since I first rode in a car.

My wife's uncle doesn't wear one while driving. And he likes to drive very fast. I always feel ill at ease when I am in the car with him driving.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 13, 2015 08:25AM
Late to this party.

Re school-bus seatbelts: Back in the '80s, my wife was part of a group that was campaigning to get seat belts on the school buses. It made no sense to us that we insisted on belting in our kids, but they didn't have the option on the buses. The group was at least partially successful, and belts were put on the buses. But it quickly became apparent that they weren't being used. There was no way to enforce it, short of having aggressive monitors on every bus. And worse, the kids would sometimes use them to hit each other.

AFAIK the experiment was deemed a failure, and the buses in town today don't have them.

- - - - -

Re personal: I am old enough to remember the introduction of lap belts, back in the '60s. Before that, cars didn't have seatbelts. When we were kids, my parents drove us from Maryland to Florida in my dad's '47 Kaiser. We just rolled around in the (fortunately cavernous) back seat. I can remember installing aftermarket lap belts in one old car or two.

In our family, we always use seatbelts, and require all passengers to use them, too. That said, I don't think the lap-shoulder system is as effective as it should be. IMO, we should have full harnesses available, as stock-car drivers do. I think that would be safer (or as safe as) airbags, and maybe less problematic.

OTOH,

Quote
Acer
100%. I don't think the government should have to tell you to wear it, but I also think you are an idiot if you don't.

I tend to agree with that.

/Mr Lynn



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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 13, 2015 08:35AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Acer
100%. I don't think the government should have to tell you to wear it, but I also think you are an idiot if you don't.

I tend to agree with that.

/Mr Lynn

How about the government telling you that you have to belt your 10 month old baby into a car seat?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 13, 2015 08:36AM
my family is vaguely connected with the family of a high school girl killed in bus accident while travelling back from a sports game in New Hampshire. it was driver error, and the bus rolled over on the highway, although not badly. she was killed. no seatbelts on the bus. no one knows the outcome if belts had been present (and used), but the option should be there.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 13, 2015 09:23AM
I wouldn't be so against wearing seat belts if it didn't make it so difficult to draw my gun when I need it. devil smiley



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 13, 2015 09:30AM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
Rick-o
Yes, always. But not for safety. It's just so I don't give the police another reason to pull me over.

I feel it should be your own choice whether you wear a seatbelt or not. Same as with a helmet on a motorcycle, and life jacket on a boat.

Get yer government out of my face!

"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. Let me live my life the way I want to."

-Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love

Sure, as long as you sign a binding waiver that if you are disabled because of your decision, no public funds will be used for your care.

I'm all for personal choice, but at least as importantly, personal responsibility. Your bad choice, you own the result.

Great. I assume you feel the same way about people who cycle without helmets? Ride in a boat without life jackets? Alcoholics who drink too much? Tobacco addicts? Fatties who gorge themselves? People who race at high speeds and burning rubber with their oh so hot Muscle Buicks? smiley-shocked003

Should all those folks also sign a binding waiver?

I could go on and on.



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 13, 2015 09:31AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Acer
100%. I don't think the government should have to tell you to wear it, but I also think you are an idiot if you don't.

I tend to agree with that.

/Mr Lynn

How about the government telling you that you have to belt your 10 month old baby into a car seat?

It's not a simple question for civil libertarians. In general, I think such matters should be left to the states. It is not the business of the Federal government under the Constitution.

Here in Massachusetts, the first time a mandatory seatbelt law was proposed, the Dean of Talk Radio (as he became known), the late Jerry Williams led a campaign to defeat it, and succeeded. The second time the law was passed. On balance, I supported it, on the theory that seatbelts helped drivers maintain control in dangerous situations, which directly affects other people, both passengers and occupants of other vehicles.

I also support state laws requiring car seats, though the expense can be a problem for poor people. Then, the same people might have no problem paying for a fancy TV and cable bill. . .

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: February 13, 2015 10:20AM
Quote
Rick-o
Quote
Racer X
Quote
Rick-o
Yes, always. But not for safety. It's just so I don't give the police another reason to pull me over.

I feel it should be your own choice whether you wear a seatbelt or not. Same as with a helmet on a motorcycle, and life jacket on a boat.

Get yer government out of my face!

"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. Let me live my life the way I want to."

-Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love

Sure, as long as you sign a binding waiver that if you are disabled because of your decision, no public funds will be used for your care.

I'm all for personal choice, but at least as importantly, personal responsibility. Your bad choice, you own the result.

Great. I assume you feel the same way about people who cycle without helmets? Ride in a boat without life jackets? Alcoholics who drink too much? Tobacco addicts? Fatties who gorge themselves? People who race at high speeds and burning rubber with their oh so hot Muscle Buicks? smiley-shocked003

Should all those folks also sign a binding waiver?

I could go on and on.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes... Oh, and Yes.
You can go on, and the answer will probably be Yes to those too.. so I'm not sure there's a point.
People SHOULD be held responsible for their own acts of stupidity, and be allowed to MAKE those acts of stupidity of their own free will, when said acts do not affect others. And others should not be forced to pay for your stupidity when it affects YOU.

Such a world will never exist, of course... but it SHOULD.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 13, 2015 10:43AM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
davester
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.

QFE.

There are an extremely smll number of people (less than 1 in a million) who will have a dangerous adverse reaction to a vaccine as a result of something in them. That's less than 300 people in the US as an example. The rest who do not vaccinate are fools who risk the health of the rest of the population. If you're worried, you can get tested first.

For the rest, it's all about risk vs. benefit. Vaccinations have very low (but not zero) risk and enormous benefits. Do every one of these people all not drive a car (to use an on topic example) for the same reasons?

How many vaccine and other shot ingredient lists and research papers have either of you gone through? Go through a few, and you'll start seeing issues. I posted in length about one of these in the past, STF if you care, or just continue calling those who do their research "stupid". The short of it is: many shots are not tested as prescribed. There are also many other reasons not to vaccinate, or to at least use an alternative schedule. Most doctors I know either do not vaccinate or use an alternate schedule.

Has my son ever received a vaccination? Sure. But was he vaccinated as a newborn with shots which contain ingredients known to cause issues (eg 30+ deaths at one hospital alone, as per the CDC), or contain vaccinations for things like HPV... no.




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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: kanesa
Date: February 13, 2015 11:45AM
The only seatbelt I had growing up was my mother's arm across my chest when she had to stop short. Always wear one now.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 13, 2015 01:15PM
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
davester
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.

QFE.

There are an extremely smll number of people (less than 1 in a million) who will have a dangerous adverse reaction to a vaccine as a result of something in them. That's less than 300 people in the US as an example. The rest who do not vaccinate are fools who risk the health of the rest of the population. If you're worried, you can get tested first.

For the rest, it's all about risk vs. benefit. Vaccinations have very low (but not zero) risk and enormous benefits. Do every one of these people all not drive a car (to use an on topic example) for the same reasons?

How many vaccine and other shot ingredient lists and research papers have either of you gone through? Go through a few, and you'll start seeing issues. I posted in length about one of these in the past, STF if you care, or just continue calling those who do their research "stupid". The short of it is: many shots are not tested as prescribed. There are also many other reasons not to vaccinate, or to at least use an alternative schedule. Most doctors I know either do not vaccinate or use an alternate schedule.

Has my son ever received a vaccination? Sure. But was he vaccinated as a newborn with shots which contain ingredients known to cause issues (eg 30+ deaths at one hospital alone, as per the CDC), or contain vaccinations for things like HPV... no.

Vaccine risks are non-zero like 100% of the rest of life. The benefits outweigh the risks by a very large margin. What are those ingredients that are known to cause issues, including 30+ deaths? Are those ingredients still in the vaccines, causing 30+ deaths every year?

Re: the doctors, are you referring to if they get vaccinations? Many adults don't get any vaccine other than for the flu on occasion, though some are required if they work with children. If those doctors don't recommend vaccination in kids then I hope I live nowhere near their patients.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 13, 2015 02:38PM
The reason that many buses are not required to have seat belts is because of their momentum advantage.

The city buses here in Sacramento run on liquified natural gas, so they get some extra mass bonus points.

I was on a city bus here that clipped a car when the driver of the car cut off the bus. I heard the accident, but I didn't feel it. I could have had an open cup of coffee, and I wouldn't have spilled a drop...
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 13, 2015 04:07PM
Quote
freeradical
The reason that many buses are not required to have seat belts is because of their momentum advantage.

The city buses here in Sacramento run on liquified natural gas, so they get some extra mass bonus points.

I was on a city bus here that clipped a car when the driver of the car cut off the bus. I heard the accident, but I didn't feel it. I could have had an open cup of coffee, and I wouldn't have spilled a drop...

there are much heavier loads travelling the roads. you would feel a tri-axle dump if it came into contact with the bus.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: February 13, 2015 04:37PM
I wouldn't be so against wearing seat belts if it didn't make it so difficult to draw my gun when I need it.

Then you've got a badly design holster or using the belt wrong.

It would be great if we didn't need Govt (or a Colt Govt) to do the Right Thing, whatever that was.

Balancing personal freedom against risk and impact (nip) on society isn't easy or perfect and nobody will every be 100% happy, let alone 100% of people being happy.

As far as safety equipment goes, I'm all for federal standards and requirements. Leaving it up to individual states is a mess. For many years, and it might still be so, there were CA compliant cars and 49-state cars, regarding emissions.

It could be/could have been much worse without some national standardization.





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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 13, 2015 05:06PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
freeradical
The reason that many buses are not required to have seat belts is because of their momentum advantage.

The city buses here in Sacramento run on liquified natural gas, so they get some extra mass bonus points.

I was on a city bus here that clipped a car when the driver of the car cut off the bus. I heard the accident, but I didn't feel it. I could have had an open cup of coffee, and I wouldn't have spilled a drop...

there are much heavier loads travelling the roads. you would feel a tri-axle dump if it came into contact with the bus.


True, but it's about probabilities. Most of the time a bus is going to win.

Also, school buses spend a lot of their time on neighborhood roads where they will never encounter any vehicle bigger than the bus.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 13, 2015 05:49PM
And not at particularly high speeds, either. School buses on highways are of more concern especially sans seatbelts.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 07:24PM
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Paul F.
Quote
Rick-o
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Racer X
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Rick-o
Yes, always. But not for safety. It's just so I don't give the police another reason to pull me over.

I feel it should be your own choice whether you wear a seatbelt or not. Same as with a helmet on a motorcycle, and life jacket on a boat.

Get yer government out of my face!

"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die. Let me live my life the way I want to."

-Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love

Sure, as long as you sign a binding waiver that if you are disabled because of your decision, no public funds will be used for your care.

I'm all for personal choice, but at least as importantly, personal responsibility. Your bad choice, you own the result.

Great. I assume you feel the same way about people who cycle without helmets? Ride in a boat without life jackets? Alcoholics who drink too much? Tobacco addicts? Fatties who gorge themselves? People who race at high speeds and burning rubber with their oh so hot Muscle Buicks? smiley-shocked003

Should all those folks also sign a binding waiver?

I could go on and on.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes... Oh, and Yes.
You can go on, and the answer will probably be Yes to those too.. so I'm not sure there's a point.
People SHOULD be held responsible for their own acts of stupidity, and be allowed to MAKE those acts of stupidity of their own free will, when said acts do not affect others. And others should not be forced to pay for your stupidity when it affects YOU.

Such a world will never exist, of course... but it SHOULD.

Actually, such a world existed in this nation as recently as 150 or so years ago.



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 13, 2015 07:26PM
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M A V I C
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Lew Zealand
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davester
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M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.

QFE.

There are an extremely smll number of people (less than 1 in a million) who will have a dangerous adverse reaction to a vaccine as a result of something in them. That's less than 300 people in the US as an example. The rest who do not vaccinate are fools who risk the health of the rest of the population. If you're worried, you can get tested first.

For the rest, it's all about risk vs. benefit. Vaccinations have very low (but not zero) risk and enormous benefits. Do every one of these people all not drive a car (to use an on topic example) for the same reasons?

How many vaccine and other shot ingredient lists and research papers have either of you gone through? Go through a few, and you'll start seeing issues. I posted in length about one of these in the past, STF if you care, or just continue calling those who do their research "stupid". The short of it is: many shots are not tested as prescribed. There are also many other reasons not to vaccinate, or to at least use an alternative schedule. Most doctors I know either do not vaccinate or use an alternate schedule.

Has my son ever received a vaccination? Sure. But was he vaccinated as a newborn with shots which contain ingredients known to cause issues (eg 30+ deaths at one hospital alone, as per the CDC), or contain vaccinations for things like HPV... no.

You so crazy, M A V I C!



It is what it is.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 13, 2015 09:57PM
Quote
RAMd®d
As far as safety equipment goes, I'm all for federal standards and requirements. Leaving it up to individual states is a mess. For many years, and it might still be so, there were CA compliant cars and 49-state cars, regarding emissions.

It could be/could have been much worse without some national standardization.

Taking us far away from the realm of seatbelts. Yes, there are still different emissions standards in CA, even for lawnmowers. They are welcome to them. As it is, I miss the throttle on mine.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 13, 2015 10:01PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
davester
Quote
M A V I C
Wow. Couldn't be more wrong. Most people I know who choose not to vaccinate, do so after much more thorough research digestion of propaganda produced by know-nothings than those who do vaccinate. It has nothing everything to do with being a poor decision or stupidity.

There, fixed that for you.

QFE.

There are an extremely smll number of people (less than 1 in a million) who will have a dangerous adverse reaction to a vaccine as a result of something in them. That's less than 300 people in the US as an example. The rest who do not vaccinate are fools who risk the health of the rest of the population. If you're worried, you can get tested first.

For the rest, it's all about risk vs. benefit. Vaccinations have very low (but not zero) risk and enormous benefits. Do every one of these people all not drive a car (to use an on topic example) for the same reasons?

How many vaccine and other shot ingredient lists and research papers have either of you gone through? Go through a few, and you'll start seeing issues. I posted in length about one of these in the past, STF if you care, or just continue calling those who do their research "stupid". The short of it is: many shots are not tested as prescribed. There are also many other reasons not to vaccinate, or to at least use an alternative schedule. Most doctors I know either do not vaccinate or use an alternate schedule.

Has my son ever received a vaccination? Sure. But was he vaccinated as a newborn with shots which contain ingredients known to cause issues (eg 30+ deaths at one hospital alone, as per the CDC), or contain vaccinations for things like HPV... no.

You so crazy, M A V I C!

It's sad when someone who does the research, then picks the versions of shots that have the least known issues is called "crazy".




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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 13, 2015 10:10PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Vaccine risks are non-zero like 100% of the rest of life. The benefits outweigh the risks by a very large margin. What are those ingredients that are known to cause issues, including 30+ deaths? Are those ingredients still in the vaccines, causing 30+ deaths every year?

There are certainly parts of life that are riskier than others. Yes, to my knowledge, those ingredients are still used. In that case, it's a preservative so they can store the shot for a long period of time. The same shot is available without the preservative, but it has to be refrigerated and costs more. They're both different than the version used in Europe and Asia, and that one has undergone a fair amount of testing. I was unable to, and no doctor I spoke with, was able to find any test results for the US version. It is still largely considered safe on its own. But, again, not all places will provide that version.

Quote

Re: the doctors, are you referring to if they get vaccinations? Many adults don't get any vaccine other than for the flu on occasion, though some are required if they work with children. If those doctors don't recommend vaccination in kids then I hope I live nowhere near their patients.

They don't vaccinate their own kids.




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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 14, 2015 06:21AM
Quote
kanesa
The only seatbelt I had growing up was my mother's arm across my chest when she had to stop short. Always wear one now.

Me, too. And I never was involved in an accident as a babe in arms.

The first person I saw die on the highway was about 45 years ago when an infant came through the windshield of a car. The car ahead of me, driven by a drunk driver, hit the car with the infant head-on. The mother of the infant came running out of the remains of the car she was a passenger in running towards a bundle of white cloth some 75 feet ahead of the car. She was bleeding from below the waist and above the legs <forum nanny>. The baby was dead, probably before hitting the ground (wasn't bleeding) thanks to going through the windshield.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Do you always (as in 100% of the time) wear a seatbelt while in a car?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 14, 2015 06:22AM
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M A V I C
Quote
Lew Zealand
If those doctors don't recommend vaccination in kids then I hope I live nowhere near their patients.

They don't vaccinate their own kids.

Doctors can be fools, too.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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