We had some flooring installed by "Lumber Liquidators" last spring. Yes, quite possibly the high formaldehyde engineered stuff. And we've all been regularly sick since then.. flu, respiratory viruses, etc. I'm now starting to wonder if this is a related issue, if chemical exposure has beaten down our immune systems.

What sort of testing can we do ?

I have no knowledge about the topic but why should that keep me quiet?

I doubt it, but i'd check. good airflow should help.

It was a bad year for flu and colds for everyone.

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Page 9. [www.cpsc.gov]

The reliability of the air monitors is questionable but there are some listed on Amazon. I would lean towards finding a company that provides employee monitoring in industries that use/generate formaldehyde.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

Did these illnesses begin after you put in the flooring? I'd be concerned for sure.

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Do you know what flooring you bought? You should probably find out if you don't. The link below mentions Lumber Liquidators can tell you what you bought if you don't know. Ventilation and covering with rug can help but the bottom line is they are saying to rip it out if it is any of that Chinese flooring that has been mentioned.

[www.wfmynews2.com]

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JoeM

Is is POSSIBLE? Sure... And worth investigating.
It also HAS been a bad cold and flu season.
I would also expect a different symptom set from formaldehyde than getting colds/flue... but that's my take.

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Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

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Eureka, CA

[www.cbsnews.com]

[www.cbsnews.com]

First the labs tested the products for CARB (California Air Resources Board) 2 compliance. CARB's emissions standards regulate the formaldehyde emissions from composite wood products used in finished goods such as laminate flooring. The underlying medium density fiberboard, or "core" of the product must pass CARB's emissions standards in order for the product to be sold legally in California. CARB publishes its official methodology for analyzing formaldehyde emissions in finished goods - or "SOP" (Standard Operating Procedure for testing finished goods) on its website. 60 Minutes also confirmed with CARB officials that this deconstructive test method is the way they test finished goods for CARB formaldehyde emissions compliance. The labs tested Lumber Liquidators' Chinese-made laminates, using the method that CARB developed and uses. Thirty of the 31 samples tested contained levels of formaldehyde emissions that exceed the limits set by CARB. It is illegal to sell laminates in California which exceed the formaldehyde emissions limits set by CARB. The labs found that the highest-emitting Lumber Liquidators product tested released 13 times more formaldehyde than the CARB Phase 2 limits.

The second test the labs did was the CDPH (California Department of Public Health test) 01350 test, which measures the concentration of formaldehyde emissions coming off the laminates into the air of a typical home. The highest-emitting Lumber Liquidators sample that the labs tested emitted a concentration of formaldehyde into the air of a typical home that the US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has cited as "polluted indoor conditions."

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hm, yeah, the larger concern might be what would happen in the event of a fire.

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Clark Howard says...

[www.clarkhoward.com]

All the quotes from all over the wigglyweb are just quotes and don't test your environment.

Get it tested.
I'd trust a lab charging just for a test service and NOT geared towards selling you a product based on the test.
I would tend to trust someplace local too.



There could be any one or more of dozens of things off-gassing in your home.
Or not.

Anything else is fingerprinting[/u] finger pointing blindly at favorite targets.

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The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 11:10AM by billb.

If you trust the local state offices, maybe call them.
Ohio Department of Health
Phone: (614) 466-3543 ~ Contact Us
Address: 246 N. High St., Columbus, Ohio 43215

I found a company that implies they test homes. There is a choice between Philthydelphia or Ann Arbor, no office in Ohio. EMSL Analytical, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI

Vermont Department of Public Health has a page about companies that do indoor air testing which might include Formaldehyde.

New Jersey Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet on formaldehyde.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

Essentially what bilb said, and:

Quote

The 60 Minutes segment has hidden video of 3 managers in Chinese factories fessing up to the unacceptable levels of formaldehyde in laminate flooring made for Lumber Liquidators. At least one manager also admitted to falsely labelling the flooring as CARB (California Air Resources Board) Phase 2 Compliant -- meaning it follows strict standards for formaldehyde emissions in wood flooring, even though it didn't!

What is missing in Clark Howard excerpt is that the Chinese manager also said "we can manufacture to CARB 2 standard if you are willing to pay for it.

Quote

The founder and chairman of Lumber Liquidators has vowed to investigate.

which is a pile of BS, he knew exactly what he was buying. Chinese will produce EXACTLY what you specify and pay for. They are very upfront with their offers, especially if you are a major cutomer. Even a CARB2 label, all by itself, carries an extra charge....

Cbel,

Try to isolate the incidence of sickness..i know you have, hence the "since then" in your post. Is that for sure? Everyone cool before that..any similarities in symptoms between the different residents of your house?

Is your house a "tight" house? Meaning..new windows that seal tightly, doors, roof..a house that doesn't "breathe" in the ways it should?

...an old house that breathes too much?

you know what i mean.

Formaldhyde outgassses at a considerable rate during (approx) the first year - after it was manufactured.

This could be a very real issue and if you are making a strong correlation between the flooring install date and these illnesses..you should push it further.

that's my feeling..

New carpet will make you sick too. Spring is coming. Ventilate. It is not radioactive. It does not need to be removed. It will get better.

You know it made you sick and an outside opinion will not change.anything.

Maybe some room air cleaners will help. The wooden floors make for better grounding than carpet for the ELECTRO sensitivity issues. The wood floors clean better than carpets for the Allergy prone.

Read on about what other "Stereotyped people" have done to deal with this.

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Staunton, Virginia

All of you see a doctor and get your symptoms documented.

I'd have it torn out and replaced, keep the receipts, and wait for the national class action settlement that surely will be coming. That will likely either pay to rip it out or reimburse your costs for ripping it out. But, it will also probably be years before that happens.

I don't want to mess with air quality issues even if it does get better over time. We live in a town with industries where the air sometimes smells funny very early in the morning on weekends. Who knows what's going on, but when we built a house, we did it over the hill to the northwest of the town. That way prevailing breezes take the stuff away from us.

From the CDC website:

Quote
CDC and ATSDR
Formaldehyde can make you feel sick if you breathe a lot of it. People can have symptoms such as:
sore throat
cough
scratchy eyes
nosebleeds
Scientists use the words “exposed” or “exposure” to talk about how people come in contact with a substance, such as formaldehyde. Some people are more sensitive than others, so an exposure that causes no problems for some people can make other people sick or uncomfortable. Some of these symptoms also happen with other upper respiratory
illnesses, such as colds/flu and seasonal allergies, so if you have these symptoms we recommend that you see a doctor or another medical professional. In general
If you are more sensitive to formaldehyde and are exposed to more of it for a longer time, you are more likely to have symptoms.
If you are exposed to less formaldehyde for a shorter time, you are less likely to have symptoms, especially if you are not sensitive to formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is known to cause cancer. The cancer of greatest concern is cancer of the nose and throat. Scientific research has not yet shown that a certain level of formaldehyde exposure causes cancer. However, the higher the level and the longer the exposure, the greater the chance of getting cancer. Exposure to formaldehyde might increase the chance of getting cancer even at levels too low to cause symptoms.

SKC currently has a relatively inexpensive sampler that takes a 1 week integrated air sample down to a fairly low detection level [www.skcltd.com]. Note that this sampler needs to be sent to a lab and analyzed. Total cost for a 2-sampler kit and 2 analyses is roughly $200 plus shipping.

I would caution you however that indoor air sampling is a very tricky business, with all sorts of interferences to worry about, plus once you get the results back you might still be scratching your head as to what they mean and whether the formaldehyde detected is from your flooring, the upholstery, the furniture, or from your collection of preserved eyeballs. Better to hire a professional industrial hygienist or get help from a public health department to do an evaluation than to go it alone.

...or, you might detect no formaldehyde (highly unlikely) and your symptoms may be a result of viruses, hypochondria, upholstery fire retardants, or any number of other things. Your best approach is probably to determine exactly which brand/model of flooring you had installed and then see if it originates from the factory involved in the scandal.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 02:44PM by davester.

Quote
davester
From the CDC website:

Quote
CDC and ATSDR
Formaldehyde can make you feel sick if you breathe a lot of it. People can have symptoms such as:
sore throat
cough
scratchy eyes
nosebleeds
Scientists use the words “exposed” or “exposure” to talk about how people come in contact with a substance, such as formaldehyde. Some people are more sensitive than others, so an exposure that causes no problems for some people can make other people sick or uncomfortable. Some of these symptoms also happen with other upper respiratory
illnesses, such as colds/flu and seasonal allergies, so if you have these symptoms we recommend that you see a doctor or another medical professional. In general
If you are more sensitive to formaldehyde and are exposed to more of it for a longer time, you are more likely to have symptoms.
If you are exposed to less formaldehyde for a shorter time, you are less likely to have symptoms, especially if you are not sensitive to formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is known to cause cancer. The cancer of greatest concern is cancer of the nose and throat. Scientific research has not yet shown that a certain level of formaldehyde exposure causes cancer. However, the higher the level and the longer the exposure, the greater the chance of getting cancer. Exposure to formaldehyde might increase the chance of getting cancer even at levels too low to cause symptoms.

THIS.

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You might want to call your attorney. I am sure he can confirm that it is what is making you sick and gladly fight to compensate you for this (minus a 33% cut + fees).

JPK

Quote
decay

Quote
davester
From the CDC website:

Quote
CDC and ATSDR
Formaldehyde can make you feel sick if you breathe a lot of it. People can have symptoms such as:
sore throat
cough
scratchy eyes
nosebleeds
Scientists use the words “exposed” or “exposure” to talk about how people come in contact with a substance, such as formaldehyde. Some people are more sensitive than others, so an exposure that causes no problems for some people can make other people sick or uncomfortable. Some of these symptoms also happen with other upper respiratory
illnesses, such as colds/flu and seasonal allergies, so if you have these symptoms we recommend that you see a doctor or another medical professional. In general
If you are more sensitive to formaldehyde and are exposed to more of it for a longer time, you are more likely to have symptoms.
If you are exposed to less formaldehyde for a shorter time, you are less likely to have symptoms, especially if you are not sensitive to formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is known to cause cancer. The cancer of greatest concern is cancer of the nose and throat. Scientific research has not yet shown that a certain level of formaldehyde exposure causes cancer. However, the higher the level and the longer the exposure, the greater the chance of getting cancer. Exposure to formaldehyde might increase the chance of getting cancer even at levels too low to cause symptoms.

THIS.

How does that address the OP's question on what sort of test to do ?

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The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]

Quote
billb
How does that address the OP's question on what sort of test to do ?

Funny, but as you were trolling my post, I was researching test methods which I then edited my post to add to. That doesn't make you any less of a troll. So are you now going to ask everybody else on this thread how their answers address the question, or were you simply implementing your usual MO of trolling my posts. You don't seem to have any other reason for visiting this thread.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 03:01PM by davester.

The timing just has me wondering if environmental causes may have contributed to the overall household level of illness. However... the flooring and carpeting was installed in early Summer, and the windows were open for a good chunk of that part of the summer, and really did not close unless it was too hot / humid for mrs. cbelt3's arthritis.

Odds are it's not a good correlation. Nobody in the family is sensitive to chemicals... both the mrs. and I have been exposed to a lot of strange stuff over our lifetimes....

Go here to find environmental allergy doctors on Ohio.

[www.aaemonline.org]

Quote
Dennis S
Go here to find environmental allergy doctors on Ohio.

[www.aaemonline.org]

Note that the primary issue with formaldehyde is its toxic effect, not allergic reaction.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

It's the fluoride in the water! (just kidding)
But I do think that anything new that outgases any chemical that I can sense, should not be in my home. From those smelly plastic shower curtains, on up.
If you find out that you have the bad flooring, get rid of it ASAP, even if it proves not to be the cause of your family's symptoms.