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"No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rz
Date: September 17, 2015 07:56AM
It had been 15 years since I had to buy a new car, but my trusty Pathfinder was showing its age, and it was time for a new vehicle. Seems that almost all the car dealerships around here have gone to the "No Haggle" pricing model. The price on the windshield is what you pay (plus, of course, a host of fees, etc.)

We had already decided what we wanted and were trying to decide between new and used. Used prices on the vehicle we wanted were pretty close to new prices. Then we found a dealership that had a few '15 leftovers that they were slashing the prices on. They are essentially new cars (the one we test drove had 5 miles on the odometer), but the new models are coming in now so they need to get rid of them. The price on the windshield was very good. We'd seen the same model/sub-model used (a '14 with 20k miles) for more at another dealer.

This dealer proudly claims that they don't haggle and have the best prices. Their sticker price sure looked nice. So we sat down to make a deal. Then they showed us the real price. On top of some crazy-high dealer fees, they added a $2k "appearance package" which is essentially tint, pinstripe, mud guards and heavy duty floor mats. Since they'd already installed the stuff, they claimed they couldn't take it out of the price. Problem is, EVERY vehicle there has the appearance package installed. The sales guy told us that the first thing they do when the get a vehicle is to add that. In small print on the price sticker in the window, it says the price didn't include any dealer-installed options.

So the real price ended up being $6k over the sticker. We were expecting closer to $2k over, and my wife told them that was all we were willing to pay. BTW, this included our trade in. Tax alone on the vehicle was close to $2k. We knew what the Pathfinder was worth, and figured it would cover the dealer fees and tag and title. They balked. "No way we can sell it at that price, we'd be losing money!" Yeah, right. She tore apart their price sheet. $2k for the appearance package? $400 to transfer the tag? Two different types of dealer fees? And less than half the KBB trade-in value of the Pathfinder? Their "last best offer" before we walked out was still $1,500 over the price we wanted out the door. As we drove off, they came running out, and came down to within $1k. "Sorry! We're firm on our offer!" my wife sweetly said.

Next day they called 8 times. Yes, 8 times. We could sense they were starting to cave. They came within $500. Nope. Finally, after 6 calls, they said they'd meet our price, BUT they'd uninstall the appearance package. Nope. 7th call: We'll meet your price, but only take the floor mats and mud guards. Us: "we'll let you know. We're looking at another vehicle tonight". 8th call: "Did you decide yet?"

The other vehicle we looked at was nice (used) but was priced higher than we wanted. So we agreed to our price, minus the floor mats and mud guards. I had looked them up online and genuine ones were only $139. When we got there, they decided to leave the mud guards, but did take the floor mats. We figured we had to make them feel like they won part of the battle.

In the end, the final sheet says they gave us the sticker price and the appearance package, but also gave us more than twice the KBB value for the trade-in. It was actually $500 over what KBB says the retail value is. The salesman said because it was so old, they were just going to send it to the auto auction and they only get $500 for that.

So I guess, in a sense, they didn't haggle on the price of the vehicle, because the final paperwork did list it at the clearance price on the windshield. But they did haggle on everything else. We got exactly what we wanted (minus floor mats which I've already ordered) for about $4k under their "no haggle price".
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2015 08:06AM
Terrific deal!





(Your wife, of course!)



Fine deal on the car, too.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: mikebw
Date: September 17, 2015 08:21AM
Awesome! I hate negotiating (in person).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 08:21AM by mikebw.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: max
Date: September 17, 2015 08:31AM
If they called you that many times, you could have gotten that extra $500, too...
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: September 17, 2015 08:32AM
You'd want to replace the stock floor mats with some nice weather tech ones anyway.



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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rz
Date: September 17, 2015 08:38AM
Quote
mikebw
Awesome! I hate negotiating (in person).

Me too, that's why I let her do it. She actually loves it. She was actually unhappy that we didn't get the floor mats, but I finally told her to let it go because I could tell the sales manager was getting pissed off at us. I'm sure they still made money on the deal, but nowhere near what they were hoping to get. He's probably telling his friends, "yeah, she raked us over the coals. But at least they didn't get the floor mats!"
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 17, 2015 08:39AM
My husband learned a long time ago, if I get up to leave a car dealer, I am not bluffing. grinning smiley

I hate car shopping, guess that is why I keep my cars so long.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rz
Date: September 17, 2015 08:40AM
Quote
bazookaman
You'd want to replace the stock floor mats with some nice weather tech ones anyway.

Actually, these were the "all-weather" ones. We still got floor mats, but they're the carpet ones that match the interior. The ones I ordered are the heavy duty all weather ones. I also ordered an all-weather cargo liner too.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: September 17, 2015 08:41AM
Bazooka,

I was going to say the same thing. Once you've got Weathertech floor liners, you won't go back to using the factory mats. Pricey but very worthwhile.

Robert
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: robfilms
Date: September 17, 2015 08:42AM
rz-

good story, told well.

thank you for sharing.

every deal changes when one side decides they can afford to walk away.

you wife is a wise person.

if i were you, i would never walk away from her!

congrats on both winking smiley

be well.

rob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 08:43AM by robfilms.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: September 17, 2015 08:55AM
This is why I use an auction broker when I have to buy a car.

Well, that, plus saving 2-4 grand a dealer would have added on to the auction price...
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2015 09:16AM
Wow, great haggle. Can I hire your wife when I'm ready to buy my Tesla?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 09:17AM by Lizabeth.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2015 09:20AM
Quote
Lizabeth
Wow, great haggle. Can I hire your wife when I'm ready to buy my Tesla?

Haggling over spouses, nice.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 17, 2015 09:35AM
Quote
Will Collier
This is why I use an auction broker when I have to buy a car.

Well, that, plus saving 2-4 grand a dealer would have added on to the auction price...

How DO you use an auction broker ? I assume it's the sort of 'I know a guy' thing ?
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: September 17, 2015 10:05AM
Congrats! I wish I was better at negotiating. The last car I bought was already listed for $5k under bluebook, and when they told me a story about another dealer wanted it for the bottom line price they were giving me, I believed it. Still not sure if it was true or not, but it probably was.

Quote
cbelt3
Quote
Will Collier
This is why I use an auction broker when I have to buy a car.

Well, that, plus saving 2-4 grand a dealer would have added on to the auction price...

How DO you use an auction broker ? I assume it's the sort of 'I know a guy' thing ?

Same reason I use a broker, when I can. Sometimes the car I want is not common enough to get a deal at auction, if I can even be found at auction.

There are brokers that advertise as brokers but they are not. Good brokers don't need to advertise. And you want to find a good one, which is why it's often a "I know a guy" thing. Referrals are the best way to find one.

Brokers don't all work the same. Some charge a percentage of the sale, some a flat fee. It depends on the car, but dealers usually add way more than $2-4 grand on the auction price. Some cars I found and was able to get the auction price for, were selling for nearly $30k when they bought it for $20k or less. One car I got for $15.5k at auction. Down the road at a dealer, they were asking $35k for nearly the same thing. It did have slightly better paint, new tires... but nothing worth the extra $20k.




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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: blooz
Date: September 17, 2015 10:35AM
Good going.
Those dealer fees are such bullpucky. I was looking at a used car a couple weeks ago at a big dealership and the dealer wanted to add $370 in fees—NOT including the registration and plates.
I said what for and the salesman explained that they archive the information on the car and keep it for five years. Which is a totally senseless reason. I said so I'm paying 370 bucks for something i don't even get?

i bought a better car somewhere else, a small operation, and they didn't have ANY dealer fees. How about that?



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 10:36AM by blooz.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 17, 2015 11:20AM
Great job..

I used to love fighting with car dealerships but now I just want a basic no-frills car (most I have ever paid was $17k, most were sub-$14k) so the markup is pretty much nonexistent anyways. I was talking to a friend who sells cars and he told me that for what I wanted, the dealer profit is pretty much the fees. For that I no longer fight; I find the cheapest price and move on.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Pam
Date: September 17, 2015 11:46AM
I need to hire your wife when I go car shopping. I hate the experience.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: September 17, 2015 11:48AM
Yes, great job Mr. and MRS. rz! But, my blood pressure increased just reading the mess y'all had to endure! Car dealers are still, still mostly a bunch of jerks. After all these years of knowing how jerky they are, they don't care. Glad y'all stuck to your price!



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 17, 2015 11:53AM
next time you buy a car, tell them that each time they call you, you lower your offer by $100. after 8 calls your offer would have been $800 lower than the initial offer. That should make them decide really fast!
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: September 17, 2015 11:53AM
Quote
Lizabeth
Wow, great haggle. Can I hire your wife when I'm ready to buy my Tesla?

Too bad---There is no negotiating on Teslas unless you buy an "Inventory Car" Loaner/Demo that has some miles on it. Still considered "New" since never registered, so you get up to $10,000 in rebates and credits.

Tesla stores are all owned and operated by Tesla and the sales staff is not on commission. The buying process involves you using the 27" iMac in the store and configuring you custom vehicle. It takes about 10 minutes to do your order. I did my order from home last Christmas Day.

If you are serious and want a Tesla Model S before October 31, 2015 I can save you $1,500 using my referral link at www.SaveOnTesla.com

Saturn used to have the "No Haggle Price" and supposedly Lexus is starting to do this in some test dealerships.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 11:54AM by Ken Sp..
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2015 11:59AM
Quote
Ken Sp.
Quote
Lizabeth
Wow, great haggle. Can I hire your wife when I'm ready to buy my Tesla?

Too bad---There is no negotiating on Teslas unless you buy an "Inventory Car" Loaner/Demo that has some miles on it. Still considered "New" since never registered, so you get up to $10,000 in rebates and credits.

Tesla stores are all owned and operated by Tesla and the sales staff is not on commission. The buying process involves you using the 27" iMac in the store and configuring you custom vehicle. It takes about 10 minutes to do your order. I did my order from home last Christmas Day.

If you are serious and want a Tesla Model S before October 31, 2015 I can save you $1,500 using my referral link at www.SaveOnTesla.com

Saturn used to have the "No Haggle Price" and supposedly Lexus is starting to do this in some test dealerships.

Yea, I know...not ready to buy yet but the savings jar has been started! I'd love to see what Mrs. RZ could do with them tho smiling smiley
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: jh
Date: September 17, 2015 12:03PM
My financial institution which used to be a credit union has a buyer for new vehicles that will find cars at X price. Tell them what you want and how much you willing to pay and they try to find cars for you you at or close to that price.

I've found Enterprise car sales don't charge the extra fees but of course don't come down on the price of the vehicle. Been a while since I purchased used vehicles from them but it may still hold. Where I live they finance them through my financial institution which usually had the best rate I was willing to accept.

YMMV
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 17, 2015 12:49PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
Too bad---There is no negotiating on Teslas

There is always room to haggle.

If the price is non-negotiable, then there's the rate on the financing.

I always have a pre-approved check at a rate that I know is the best I can get at the time. Only once has the dealer not been able to match it. Once they actually did even better.

Dealers can cut their profit to near or less than zero on the price and then screw you on the financing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 12:49PM by Lux Interior.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: September 17, 2015 12:50PM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
Will Collier
This is why I use an auction broker when I have to buy a car.

Well, that, plus saving 2-4 grand a dealer would have added on to the auction price...

How DO you use an auction broker ? I assume it's the sort of 'I know a guy' thing ?

Sometimes. The first one we found through a classified ad for a car he was selling... he'd already sold the one we were calling about, but we worked with him to buy another car through the broker route.

Unfortunately he retired and went back home to India. For the car I just bought, I had to search out another one... actually located him through Google. It does take some work to find those guys (they're almost all guys). They tend to keep a low profile, depend on word of mouth, and for good reason... dealers hate them, and try to get their auction privileges revoked. But it's worth the search.

I've only worked with flat-fee guys. And yes, the savings depends on the car (and the year, and the condition, and...). The higher up you go the luxury route, and the less demand there is for a given model, the better the chance you'll see a really big savings. Me, I'm not enough of a car guy to get that involved with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 12:53PM by Will Collier.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: September 17, 2015 01:10PM
Oh, I should have said up front: my grump about using brokers in no way implies not being impressed with Mrs. rz's mad haggling skillz. Well done!
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rz
Date: September 17, 2015 01:28PM
Well, not only does she have mad haggling skillz, she's pretty good at the auto auction too. Four years ago we were looking for a used pickup truck, and they had a few at an auction house we frequent. They had three F-150's, and one F-250. We both agreed we'd like the F-250. It had higher mileage than the others, but was in better condition. We looked up the trade-in on it... KBB said 13k, Edmunds said 11.5k. We agreed we'd get it if we could get it under 8k. The 3 F-150s went for close to their trade-in value. Then the 250 came up. I let her do the bidding. It was her against an older guy. Bid went up to 5k. She bid 5,200. He looked at her, she smiled. Then he gave up and said "Let her have it". I'm sure if I'd been bidding, he would have kept going. With a 10% buyers premium, we got it for $5,720 total.

We took it to our mechanic who said the only thing wrong with it was the rear shocks needed replacing, and the front brakes did as well. In 4 years, besides oil changes, the only problem we've had is with the AC. We did a recharge in June, and it still seems to be doing ok.

My wife would probably love to help anyone who wanted her to negotiate for them. Come on down to Orlando!
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: 3d
Date: September 17, 2015 01:33PM
I hate car dealership sales people and all their nickel and dime tactics. They sell cars day in and day out. The typical car buyer walking into the showroom has no chance. There should be car buying proxy services. $300 flat fee for what,, an hour of their time? When ready to buy the proxy goes in with you to haggle everything by your side.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: decay
Date: September 17, 2015 01:42PM
Quote
3d
I hate car dealership sales people and all their nickel and dime tactics. They sell cars day in and day out. The typical car buyer walking into the showroom has no chance. There should be car buying proxy services. $300 flat fee for what,, an hour of their time? When ready to buy the proxy goes in with you to haggle everything by your side.

sounds fair if you save $1000 or more.



---
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: September 17, 2015 01:50PM
Mrs. rz rocks!


8 years ago when we bought our end of model year Odyssey, we just asked for internet quotes from the 6 closest dealers and they came back at full price (ha!) to $5200 below list. We asked our local dealer who was $4200 below list to match the $5200 off, they did and we bought from them. It was pretty painless, considering it's a Honda whose dealerships are mostly evil. However in SoCal I have a lot of choices and that really helps that process.

The original $5200 off dealership actually turned out to be pure evil which made our choice of local easier and in fact if we'd ended up paying only the $4200 off at the local, I'd rather have done that for being treated like an intelligent human being. I've owned Volvos before then and those dealerships are even more bloody evil so our local Honda people aren't so bad. Their service bay however is completely EVIL and we'll never be going there again.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: September 17, 2015 01:58PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
Ken Sp.
Too bad---There is no negotiating on Teslas

There is always room to haggle.

If the price is non-negotiable, then there's the rate on the financing.

I always have a pre-approved check at a rate that I know is the best I can get at the time. Only once has the dealer not been able to match it. Once they actually did even better.

Dealers can cut their profit to near or less than zero on the price and then screw you on the financing.

Tesla has a different way to buy a car. It is hard to negotiate when the order site simply has you select the options, and in the end the price is the price.
They do leases. but most of those are handled by regular banks at a fixed rate--under 3%. They do keep some leases themselves. Tesla does not do any loans themselves (for now). Many credit unions knock an additional 0.5% off for Electric and hybrids. Recently rates were around 1.5%.
Tesla also doesn't not treat the service center as a profit center. The mandate is for service (when needed) to not have any mark up-just real cost of parts and operating costs.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Don C
Date: September 17, 2015 01:58PM
I am always amazed at how long it takes. Even writing a check can take a couple of hours to get out of the showroom.

A bunch of years ago I bought a used vehicle. Was ready to write a check and was keeping the old car to sell to a friend so there was no trade in involved. Sat in the showroom for more than an hour AFTER the deal was made. When they finally brought the car around, it would not start. They'd drained the gas tank too far.

Never admitted to that, but they DID go get a gallon or two so that I could leave the lot. I have never set foot on their property again and never will.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 17, 2015 03:22PM
Car and Driver just began a 5-part series on the new-car buying experience. The first installment mostly outlined the present situation but did note how the Internet has changed things and that dealers are now trying to get the process all done in an hour (to address customers' knowledge that there's nothing inherent in the process that should take longer.) It also mentioned a few broker sites where you set it all up and get your price before you show up.

Not yet discussed is the shopping experience ... most of us still want a test drive or two. The "Amazon" way of car buying isn't here, and probably should NOT be here 100%.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 17, 2015 04:02PM
[www.npr.org]

I get a headache just looking at the headline. never bought new and probably never will, mostly because of price, but nearly equally because of the dealer.



Mischievous and Deceitful
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: dan steinberg
Date: September 17, 2015 05:23PM
We bought a 2015 Honda Odyssey this past December and due to a combination of our Hawaii location and a specific feature we wanted (Navigation), I was more at the salesman's tender mercies than I have been in a long time.

For the last car we bought, 11 years ago, plus the last 2 cars my in-laws bought, we used the same method another poster mentioned, email 4-5 dealers and compare their offers before ever setting foot in the dealership. In those emails I made sure that they formatted their offer as base price + sales tax + registration + titling fee = out the door total. All itemized and no other changes since a check would be made out to the penny.

Always got a very wide range of offers, and some dealers would even write back and say "come on down and we'll figure out a great deal for you". Uh no, that's why I'm emailing smiling smiley

This approach worked well every time, we ended up getting right at invoice every time or even a bit below and all negotiation was done through email on our schedule. No games, no wasted time.

For the latest minivan purchase things were very different because:

1-We recently moved to the island of Oahu in Hawaii, there are only 3 Honda dealerships on the island if you don't want to buy on the mainland and spend a bunch to get it shipped. Not like a big metro area where you could email 10+ different dealers. I also tried the different car buying services (costco, usaa, tracer, etc) and always got back the result that none of the three local Honda dealers participated in the programs.

2-We knew we wanted a built in navigation system, a very important feature to us. For all three dealers, they had tons of stock of either

a) the same trim level but without nav (otherwise identical)

b) The top trim level that had nav but also made you pay a few thousand more for really silly, over the top features that were totally meaningless to us (dvd player, extra window shades, shiny wheels, etc)

If we were willing to give up built in navigation (which we were not) I could have emailed three different dealers in the last week of December 2015, and all have them fight over selling a Honda Odyssey when they had a dozen on each lot, AND needed to make their numbers for not only the month, but also the quarter, and finally the entire calendar year. I have a feeling they would have been very flexible on price

Instead, only one of the three dealers had the nav model coming in on a boat, the other two did not have that model in stock nor coming in, had no plans to order one with nav, and said if I wanted to do a factory order it would cost full sticker (they were all very firm about this).

So, the one dealer knew they had me where they wanted me (even though I tried to play it cool), and I had to work with a normal salesman instead of the fleet dealer and email. Worse yet, since they didn't get credit for the sale until it arrived in January, they had an entire 2015 sales quarter to sell it to someone else who wanted a nav model, if I didn't take it.

I ended up doing the whole chip away at the price thing little by little, sitting in the sales cubicle with my one year old on my lap, for almost 2 hours. The problem was I really did want that one model they had coming in (and I verified on that one third party website that all three dealers did not have any nav models in stock or on the way).

In the end the best I was able to do was only halfway between invoice and their starting point of sticker (the final base price was $1500 over invoice and $1500 under sticker). Maybe an OK deal for a high demand model in Hawaii, but a terrible deal by my standards. But I know that no one put a gun to my head smiling smiley

Of that two hours, I only lasted 5 minutes with the salesman they assigned me, he was very young and hot-headed, getting angry the moment I asked for any discount off sticker and saying stuff like "I guess you don't really want to buy a car today". I immediately switched to working with the sales manager instead, who was very polite and professional even if he didn't get me the deal I was hoping for.

So I may just win the award for most expensive built in nav option ever, it not only cost the difference between that model and the same non-nav trim level, but it also cost the difference between the deal I could have gotten on the non-nav models sitting on the lot, and the deal I got.

First world problems smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 05:27PM by dan steinberg.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 17, 2015 05:46PM
Why do you want the navigation built in when iPhone can do that better since the map is up to date? How is the process of updating the maps on a car with built-in navigation?
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: September 17, 2015 06:23PM
Space,

The navigation built into my '09 Mazda CX-7 is easier to use than any system I've tried on an iPhone or an iPad. The system shows up on the built-in display, guides speak with the cars audio system. No special connections or anything required. I'd take it over an iPhone or an iPad without hesitation.

If I remember correctly, the maps are on a DVD, which is swapped out for a replacement during the update process. FWIW, I haven't updated the map in my car yet. No need. Streets and such don't change often at all. But, the current DVD is at least 6 years old. It's probably worth updating the disc. Mazda may stop releasing update discs at some point and I should probably have the most current one in the vehicle.

Robert
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 17, 2015 06:37PM
You'd want to replace the stock floor mats with some nice weather tech ones anyway.

Yes.

And I can't believe what dealers want for factory floor mats. I've never paid for them. At least directly.

I too hate buying a car. I've owned two in the last 35 years, I hate the process so much.

I have a friend who's wife is also a tenacious rz. I told them the next time I buy a car, she'e coming with me. She too, thinks The Haggle is fun.






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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: dan steinberg
Date: September 17, 2015 07:51PM
Quote
Robert M
Space,

The navigation built into my '09 Mazda CX-7 is easier to use than any system I've tried on an iPhone or an iPad. The system shows up on the built-in display, guides speak with the cars audio system. No special connections or anything required. I'd take it over an iPhone or an iPad without hesitation.

If I remember correctly, the maps are on a DVD, which is swapped out for a replacement during the update process. FWIW, I haven't updated the map in my car yet. No need. Streets and such don't change often at all. But, the current DVD is at least 6 years old. It's probably worth updating the disc. Mazda may stop releasing update discs at some point and I should probably have the most current one in the vehicle.

Robert

Exactly all of those reasons. And for me the biggest one is that with a phone, you would constantly be mounting/unmounting the phone from a dash holder, plugging and unplugging the car charger every time you get in and out of the car at each errand, etc. Then you have a mount and writes cluttering up your dashboard, it's just not as elegant.

I know this makes me a brat but if you're paying what a modern minivan costs these days you should get to have an elegant solution.

One thing phone navs do better, and something I would like to see built in nav systems do better with, is to integrate better with maps people use on their home computer such as google maps. Right now when on a road trip I plan and bookmark (star) my different destinations on my computer and my android phone google maps has them all ready and waiting, but I still have to retype/re-search each one in the car's built in nav.

To me what would be the most obvious feature in the world would be for the car nav to have your google account login, and then when the car starts, it:

-makes a bluetooth data connection with your phone
-goes into the cloud/your google account and updates itself with your saved bookmarks

Then in your car nav you could tap a button for "recent entries" or "entries within x miles of my location" and have a nice list of all the saved map bookmarks you spent time entering.

I think I read the latest Kias had some sort of google maps integration but I would be impressed/surprised if they had it work that way.

Car infotainment systems always seem to miss the mark in a million different ways, and drop the ball on the most obvious of daily customer use cases. For example, my Honda Odyssey has iPod integration and while I love the feature and sue it all the time, within 5 minutes of using it for the first time I saw literally a dozen ways they made the music display ugly and confusing, and the music navigation options much more annoying than they need to be.

The most frustrating thing is that all of the things that could be done to improve it would not cost them any extra in parts, and probably not much/any more of the software engineer's time when designing it, they just needed someone to design a good user interface that thought of the things a normal user would often want to do when using the thing. This never seems to happen.

sorry about getting off topic.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 08:09PM by dan steinberg.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 17, 2015 08:11PM
Quote
dan steinberg
...

The most frustrating thing is that all of the things that could be done to improve it would not cost them any extra in parts, and probably not much/any more of the software engineer's time when designing it, they just needed someone to design a good user interface that thought of the things a normal user would often want to do when using the thing. This never seems to happen.
...

maybe they should hire Johnny Ive. LOL.

OK, I understand, yes, it is an elegant solution. I am not sure if you have real time traffic though, as you have on a cell phone. Maybe some cars can download this info from cell phone, or maybe even some more fancy cars can have their own cellular connection?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2015 08:11PM by space-time.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 17, 2015 09:05PM
Quote
dan steinberg
We bought a 2015 Honda Odyssey this past December and due to a combination of our Hawaii location and a specific feature we wanted (Navigation), I was more at the salesman's tender mercies than I have been in a long time.

Navigation? On Oahu?

You can basically only drive in a circle until you reach Kaena point. And if you get lost, the locals drive so slow that you can get out the map and read it!

Just kidding! I lived on Oahu for four years and I they didn't even have H3 yet!
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: September 17, 2015 10:15PM
$400 bucks for the plates?!!

Prices have gone up fast!

I paid $50 for the dealer to order my last new plates and $25 for my last transfer 4 years ago.



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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 17, 2015 10:16PM
my dad would only buy a car with nav, and I didn't get it, either.

one could always buy a gps unit to sit outside the console or (not my choice) on the windshield. and now, these things have audio out and plug right into the audio system on the car.

sorry, just looking for why nav would be so much better than a standalone gps.



Mischievous and Deceitful
Chicanerous and Deplorable
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: dan steinberg
Date: September 18, 2015 05:37AM
To address some of the other posts:

Needing navigation on Oahu: It is true that on this small island we don't need it too much at the moment (and the dealers explained thats why they don't order models that have it).

However, we'll be back on the mainland in 2 years (military billet) and then it will get used for longer reaching road trips. We plan to keep the minivan for a very long time, our child is only 1.5 years old.

GPS Unit on Dash or Windshield: Yes this is another option. But I guess I'm a little OCD, I just don't really want extra junk and wires hanging out in the cars' interior. The interior is meant for other elegant things like ten zillion baby toys and half drank bottles of formula smiling smiley

Also, it means every time you park you either have to put it away every single time, or wonder if someone is going to see it through the glass and want to try and take it.

Real Time Traffic: The nav in our 2015 Odyssey we have does have real time traffic, it gets it through some sort of sub-carrier signal that comes through the FM airwaves, there's no charge for it or anything. More info here

[automobiles.honda.com]

and it looks like Honolulu is one of the covered cities.

It's not as elegant as google maps (since they acquired waze) where it shows multiple routes with the whole (this route is 5 minutes faster right now" stuff.

Thanks!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2015 05:42AM by dan steinberg.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 18, 2015 07:08AM
Having an integrated nav or audio solution is significant to me as well. In my last vehicle I couldn't afford the aftermarket radios that had nav, so I hashed together an aftermarket aux-in and USB charger behind the dash that came together with just one cable going to the iPhone's dock. It worked great. (And if anyone with a 2003-up Mazda is interested in it, PM me.)

Our new-to-us 2006 Accord has factory nav but I won't pay the $100-$150 to update the DVD maps ... that's how archaic OEM nav systems have been and still are, mostly. And all for a screen with 256 colors and maps that resemble etch-a-sketch drawings. Yeah new systems look better. And I didn't buy an aftermarket radio because the necessary dash kits replace the HVAC controls and ... wow.

So I got a GROM box that mostly integrates with it and a nifty phone holder that (and here's the key, for me) integrates the Lightning cable in its base. So even though I still have to insert and remove the phone I don't have to connect a dangling cord.

**********

Dan, your Odyssey odyssey is so familiar. If it's not on the lot or a nearby lot they treat you like you're asking for a free Ferrari in the deal. Other dealers, the maker's own inventory ... none of it exists in their sheltered and politically-protected fiefdom. If it wasn't nav it could have been anything, different color or whatever else you might have cared about.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: rz
Date: September 18, 2015 08:45AM
Funny that two people mentioned the Honda Odyssey, since that's the vehicle we bought. I was just afraid of getting teased about buying a minivan. But I'll tell you, it's pretty dang nice. We got the one just below the Touring model (the EX-L) so it has pretty much everything except navigation and rear-entertainment (i.e. DVD player). My son watches movies on his iPad, and we have a Tom-Tom. So it was easy to decide what to get. Biggest feature we wanted was the power side doors. They are so convenient with a little one.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 18, 2015 08:53AM
I know it's a bit older, but my parents had a '98 Chrysler Town and Country stretch that was originally a dealer demo. Loaded with everything, including powered leather seats, power ports in the back and bigger brakes than were standard. NICE RIDE!
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 18, 2015 10:47AM
Teased?! Dude, a minvan's THE party wagon. (Having kids is just an excuse to get one. Well, that and to have little minds to infect, er I mean mold in own image, heh.)

We had two, an '03 Odyssey for a short time and are selling the '04 MPV now that daddy's mid life crisis has manifested in an equally old truck. '04-- last of the "little Tacomas."
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: September 18, 2015 03:27PM
Quote
rz
Funny that two people mentioned the Honda Odyssey, since that's the vehicle we bought. I was just afraid of getting teased about buying a minivan. But I'll tell you, it's pretty dang nice. We got the one just below the Touring model (the EX-L) so it has pretty much everything except navigation and rear-entertainment (i.e. DVD player). My son watches movies on his iPad, and we have a Tom-Tom. So it was easy to decide what to get. Biggest feature we wanted was the power side doors. They are so convenient with a little one.

So Mrs. rz stuck it to Honda? Double kudos to her! They deserve it every time. Honda makes mostly good stuff with a good repair record so they know they have us over a barrel and they're rarely nice about it.

Our local dealership is OK but the one that quoted us full price for a model that was being updated in less than 2 weeks is well known locally for being a huge pack of bastards (biggest dealer in the area). I didn't even want to waste the quote on them but Mrs. Zealand was curious and there were no surprises from them when they came out high bidder.
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Re: "No Haggle" car dealership? Meet my wife...
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: September 18, 2015 03:29PM
BTW, you made the same decisions on the car that we did. A previous Odyssey owner friend recommended the leather as it's way easier to clean up after the kiddos spill something. Sage advice.
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