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AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Buzz
Date: January 11, 2006 12:10PM
I pushed Re-Reg guy for as much info as I could, and the best he would give me were the prior CUSA user’s initials, and the suggestion that I take everything back to CUSA and demand that they make things right, by giving me a new machine. Part of my “pushing” Re-Reg guy, included asking him how the chain of events could not be construed as fraud. After all, Apple had record of CUSA’s dealings w/ the machine that pre-date CUSA’s sale to me such that the concurrent AppleCare sale was invalid, and improper, at the time it was made. Apple even confirmed it was from the same store, so CUSA can’t claim it was transferred from another store to justify a mix up in dates and not having knowledge of prior AppleCare involvement.

Re-Reg guy clearly did not disagree with me, but did stop short of offering up his own legal opinions on CUSA’s behavior, saying only that some obvious mistakes were made, and it would clearly be in CUSA’s interests to make things right (as above), and requested that I call his department back after going back to CUSA with information he provided. The techs at MacMall, upon hearing the updated info I got from Re-Reg guy, offered up the same suggested resolution, before I was able to get to that part of the story.

So, what new machine do I ask for/politely demand? Low/Mid/High G5 tower? 15” PowerBook? 20” iMac G5? The “make things right” gene in my gut says low end G5 tower, though at this point I’d probably get more use from a PowerBook or iMac which are the economic equivalent rather than the functional equivalent as is the tower.

I also feel Apple has some ultimate responsibility by allowing CUSA, or any other “approved” reseller, to sell Apple wares to the public. I look forward to the comments and recommendations this saga is intended to elicit, and encourage and thank you for your responses. I intend to go back to CUSA either Friday or Monday, and will certainly report back with the results.

Buzz
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Pam
Date: January 11, 2006 12:24PM
I'd ask for whatever new/unopened tower they had that at least met the specs of the one you bought. I'd push the fraud aspect hard. What they did was ciminal.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: January 11, 2006 12:28PM
Wow. What a Cluster___.

You've already got a handle on this - and I assume that you've mentioned the FRAUD word @ CUSA. Don't forget the words "County Prosecutor" and "[your state] Atty General."

Big question.... after FIVE AppleCare episodes, why didn't APPLE replace the machine for the customer?

Also.... what was loose in the unit?

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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: January 11, 2006 12:30PM
Long Story...

Personally, whatever the original system was, get that position in the current line. If it was low end, go for low end G5, ect. I'd also heavily consider aiming for the next up model for the near month of trouble. Don't forget you also have memory upgrades in it that are useless to you in your new system. You should get either the equivalent amount of memory added, or use that as leverage for a higher model.

Don't be afraid to 'threaten' the local CompUSA with a call to the newpaper/TV station, or other venue which might like to broadcast the story. They clearly did you wrong, you were out time and product. (maybe money? Pay for calls? Lose some time that could have been profitable?)

If you settle for an iMac, be sure not to settle on low end. Go for high end, new intel, maxed out RAM, AND Applecare. (Just make sure you enroll it yourself)
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Buzz
Date: January 11, 2006 12:45PM
jimmypoo- a little silver cylinder thingy about a quarter inch in diameter and about three-eighths inch tall on a tiny black plastic square on the bottom with two leads coming out, markings on the top;

470
jFK
3Q5

they seem to be prevalent on video cards whatever it is...

the "customer" apparently was CUSA for the 5 AppleCare episodes; all I was given by AppleCare were the dates, the buyers intials, and the source of the calls as being CUSA. if the machine was bought even earlier by a customer and taken back to CUSA whereupon the AppleCare episodes started, I have no way of knowing, yet...
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: January 11, 2006 12:50PM
That sounds like a surface mount capacitor there. It's used to store small amounts of power for quick release. Definitely something that when missing could cause some issues. (Or even prevent it from working).

Similar to one of these? [eddie.dyec.com.tw]
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Buzz
Date: January 11, 2006 01:13PM
yep Grim, identical except for the exact lettering...

btw, in response to replies from start of saga, new PRAM batt, did try fresh user acct, etc, as part of "usual resurrection routines" referred to. machine was wonky when booted from optical.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Stavs
Date: January 11, 2006 01:31PM
Can someone post a digest version of this for those of us who dont want to open each chapeter? I want to read it, but I'm at work, and it will take forever to open each one without getting pulled away.

Stavs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2006 01:57PM by Stavs.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: MartyStickle
Date: January 11, 2006 01:43PM
Fortunatley I have a good DSL connection, so I can get it all....

it is long, but very interesting.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: January 11, 2006 02:25PM
Raise holy hell. CompUSA blatantly committed fraud, and you've got them by the short hairs.

Get Apple to send you paperwork with the machine's previous AppleCare history, and they're dead meat. Go to the store manager with copies (leave the originals at home!) and tell him he's giving you a new tower today, or you're going to the D.A. and also suing his arse.
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Should be called "CompUSA Hell"...
Posted by: endymion
Date: January 11, 2006 02:26PM
Calling this "AppleCare Hell" seems to somehow put the blame on Apple when in fact the merchant (CompUSA) seems to definitely be pulling a fast one.

Also, "experienced Mac guys" don't get their deals from CompUSA without following up on them after the fact to ensure that something exactly like this doesn't occur!

I'd pursue a case in small claims court.
g=
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: January 11, 2006 02:43PM
Small claims isn't criminal. If this guy was the manager at the time of the purchase.... he could be looking at some doodoo.

That's why I like those words "Atty General", etc.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: Buzz
Date: January 11, 2006 03:39PM
endymion- while I'm definitely an experienced Mac guy, this was the first. last, and likely only (save whatever replacement Mac is obtained) Mac that I've bought from CUSA. I'm not exactly a stranger to their stores, as I have gotten quite a few peripherals, and media when on sale there. I've suffered through delayed rebates, but this was just pretty blatant fraud. I was tipped off as to MDD availability at CUSA back at DM at the time of purchase; I just didn't wake up one day after 20 years of buy Macs elsewhere, and decide to go to CUSA for my first time Mac purchase there.

As to following up; the paper trail could not be any clearer, I certainly didn't think I had to call AppleCare prophylactically, I've always thought you were supposed to call when you discovered you had a problem an authorized service provider was unable to deal with..., which is exactly what I did.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: SKYLANE
Date: January 11, 2006 04:49PM
I, like you, would probably ask for an equivalent replacement. However, after a month of all that trouble, CUSA owes you. The manager should be jumping on "not only making things right with you" but also "being just". I believe that includes a higher end machine. Point him to this link... tell him it ends here if things are made right. Otherwise... the saga continues... for him.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: ADent
Date: January 11, 2006 06:08PM
I would just ask for a cash refund (for everything) and the directions to the Apple Store.

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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: rexrzer
Date: January 11, 2006 08:12PM
You can't sell a used Mac as a new Mac, as CUSA did to you, without knowing that you were doing it. That is *intent* per se, and CUSA is liable for civil and criminal penalties and damages for this blatant consumer fraud. You can't call it anything else. You don't have to be nice about it. That's what it is: no more, no less.

Take your paperwork trail, *all of it*, to the manager at CUSA for one last attempt at reconciliation, and give the guy holy living hell about what happened. You have been defrauded, cheated out of your time, energy and money by CUSA, pure and simple. There is nothing that will "make things right" except for some kind of unilaterally benevolent compensation, and good will.

You should demand a new PowerMac G5, not a demo or "open box" unit, AppleCare, and enough extra RAM to make things "right." Failing that, walk out and don't waste any more time with the manager, or CUSA. Go directly to your county/city District Attorney's office, division of consumer affairs (every city/county has such an entity these days), and have the matter taken care of legally. They will investigate, and charge CUSA with fraud, criminal fraud. That's what they do.

Next, go to Small Claims Court and file a lawsuit for the maximum allowed in your county/State (here in California, as I recall, it's $15,000, maybe more) against the manager, and CUSA. Have the Sheriff/Police serve the papers. Keep the machine as evidence, of course. You'll have to go through the process of court, and trial, but it's pretty easy to do. Perhaps getting charged with fraud by the District Atty, and sued by you in court, will light a fire under CUSA/manager's *ss, and you'll get that new G5, and more.

Be sure and tip off your local newspaper about what's going on. Sounds like a great consumer-issue color story. It's not what you wanted to do, it's not what you expected out of a simple computer purchase, but it's certainly newsworthy IMO.

Good luck, and hope you are successful with your efforts.

______________



What's the difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make some sense.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: January 11, 2006 08:43PM
Gotta go with rexrzer (and all) on this one

CUSA deserves exactly one chance to make you very very happy on this one
and then even if/when they do turn them in anyway just so they can feel all of our "love"

Even if they hand you the keys to the store and an apology of epic proportions
this was not an oops - it was out and out fraud and deserves to be dealt with as such



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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 11, 2006 08:46PM
Too funny: As I began to read this sage, what song should pop up in my iTunes random song rotation but Barbra Streisand's "Guilty" -- complete with the chorus refrain

it oughta be illegal
it oughta be illegal


Classic!

BTW: Rip 'em a new one. Seriously, go for the jugular on this one -- you are dealing from a position of extreme strength.



It is what it is.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: rexrzer
Date: January 11, 2006 09:17PM
As an addendum to what I already wrote: the ceiling for Small Claims here in Ventura County is $25,000. After that magic number, you go to Superior Court. where the amount is unlimited.

The reason I posted the $15K limit is an interesting one. I won a Small Claims civil action against my local BMW dealer in 1999, for what they did to my (then) new 525i while it was in for service. The detail boys took it out for a joy ride, over-revved the motor (7400RPM via the motronics onboard records), and blew the motor up (piston through the block). They tried to blame me for doing it *BEFORE* the service, but we proved it happened *during* the service visit. I speak fluent Spanish, and I got two of those detail boys to confess to me what they'd done by bribing them with some Tecate and chips, literally!

My judgment? $15.838.00, plus court costs, and attorney fees, expert witness fees, etc. Total was more than $23K. The dealer, a very arrogant gentleman, was so sure they were going to win that he didn't even show up for the trial (by judge). Things didn't get very far in court. The judge asked, "Where is Mr. Thomas? (the dealer, of Steve Thomas BMW)." And his counsel, blithley answered, "Your honor, we think we can win without him being here."

That was all it took. The judge raised his gavel, slammed it down on his striker, and said, "Judgment in full, for the plaintiff." We were prepared for full-blown trial and it took exactly 2 minutes of the Court's time. Yes, sometimes, things are just bound to go your way! smiling smiley

Methinks Mr. Buzz has a similar situation, perhaps, even easier than mine was.

_____________



What's the difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make some sense.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: insider
Date: January 12, 2006 01:50AM
Buzz and everyone else.

First you need to remember that it is the manager of *that* COMPUSA that committed fraud. I'm sure he was trying to get rid of old junk anyway he could and certainly against Apple's and CompUSA's policy.

In having dealt with Apple in a situation similar to this you might want to take my advice:

1. Get recorded a general statement about the unwritten 3 break lemon law AppleCare Support enforces

2. Talk to a CompUSA manager in a different city or even state and tell him about the situation. Ask him what he things.

3. Contact the BBB imediately, regardless of whether the issue is resolved or not with money, new machine etc. They will be quick to close fraud complaints through you when the BBB is already involved. Remember to site the complaint to THIS store and mention the people's name many times. My guess is that their district manager would find out about this and get it quickly in their hands.

4. Contact the local Attn General. If the computer was > $2k you have more options than if it's under $2k but at least make them aware of the misleading information and fraud. Again even a single letter from the BBB and Attn General that you *filed* a complaint is great pursiasian to have them resolve it quickly.

5. Do not shoot for the sky. Even if they make it right, you still have all the right in the world to take this to the a TV station, BBB attn general etc. In fact, it would make it more interesting for the story to have you record your conversation with the manager.

Depending on the state you are in, you may be able to record the converation legally for use in court.

States Requiring One Party Notification
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
District Of Columbia
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky Louisiana
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
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Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma Oregon
Ohio
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming
===================================
States Requiring Two Party Notification
California
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida Massachusetts
Maryland
Michigan
Montana New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington
===================================

I have fought, Apple, sears, pulte homes, compUSA, Epson, Averatec and many other companies successfully using the right tools.
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Re: AppleCare Hell; Part VI – “Time for Resolution & Restitution”
Posted by: vicrock
Date: January 12, 2006 05:37PM
If your local TV station has a consumer rip off reporter on the nightly news, that is a pretty impressive threat - free BAD publicity - just what every store fears.

With the kind of documentation you have, this is one that any consumer fraud reporter would love.
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