besides the MRSP you see on the website, dealers charged around $800 "destination fee". Suppose they give me a quote of $22,000 for a car that is $25,000 MRSP, and they said that does not include destination fee of $800.

When I look at truecar.com, I see mentioned:

Documentation Fee ($499), Prep Fee ($795) and Accessories ($0)

WTF are these fees?

What is "Documentation" fee? how can I avoid it?

What is "Prep Fee", is that the same as "destination"? something else?

And can I expect the dealer to find me a car without any "Accessories"?

Oh man, I hate car shopping.

EDIT: I fully understand there is tax (7%), there is registration and plates fee, and of course I need to prove that I have insurance. Anything else?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2016 08:19PM by space-time.

The "Fees" don't matter. Negotiate the out the door price(the amount you are giving them a check for, or financing) after all that crap, including sales tax.

Make it clear that you are asking for quotes on the total price after everything is added in. If you get a quote online that is total and then they try and add something after that walk right out the door.

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C(-)ris
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Throwback Thursday Signature:

Don't forget to preemptively negotiate about door mats and dealer-installed beauty packages, or they will magically show up on the car they finally give you no matter if you wanted them or not and then be added to the bill.

Use the Costco car buying service, no surprises, the price the participating dealer quotes you is the price you pay.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2016 10:30PM by Yoyodyne ArtWorks.

Are your buying or Leasing? If you are buying the Destination charge is a real fixed cost. All other Fees are Bs. Get as much cost information you can get on the car and work from there.
I usually walk off the lot when I see cars with a msrp then an additional dealer mark up or detailing charges like pin stripes, window tinting, lojack or wheels
If you hate dealing with car dealers try using costco or another buying service. You won't get the best deal but you will get a fair or good deal.
You timing when you buy can make a difference. End of the month better. Dealer rebates or incentives will increase later in the model year.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2016 10:33PM by bruceko.

New car? Just hand over the wallet to the salesman. I've bought two new cars in my life. The lessons learned taught me never to do that again.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

It's all negotiable. Just be prepared to walk away. Walking out the door saved me a surprise "document fee". When the salesman follows you out, you know you won.

Better yet, DO NOT BUY NEW.
Unless you can afford it, which means writing a check for the total.

[www.daveramsey.com]

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Buck
Better yet, DO NOT BUY NEW.
Unless you can afford it, which means writing a check for the total.

[www.daveramsey.com]

meh. his math is off.

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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.

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jdc

Quote
Buck
Better yet, DO NOT BUY NEW.
Unless you can afford it, which means writing a check for the total.

[www.daveramsey.com]

meh. his math is off.

I think Dave Ramsey is a bit of a charlatan, but in this instance he is correct. Don't ever have a new car payment...loser's game!

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

We will have to agree to disagree then. His math is off. And there are about a billion variables he doesnt account for.

Even his initial premise in that video linked to is flawed.

Ive owned plenty of new cars -- never have I had a payment as much as $475. not even close. Then he talks about a car worth $1500... and you wait 10 months and save that $475 -- for a total of $7,000 to buy a newer car with.

Couple of issues -- a car thats $1500 now wont be worth $1500 10 months from now. If you are already driving a car thats only worth $1500, Im assuming that you are on the way low end of the pay scale. Cause a $1500 car is 30 years old. If you havent bought a new car by now, it cause you cant afford it. So theres no magic $475 car payment.
And not sure who would actually want to *buy* a $1500 car? Maybe scrap?

OK, I found a 1993 geo prizm with 209K for $1,995.

I suppose its oversimplified, but its also flawed.

Our Mazda 3, is 6 years old with a payment of $295, and at the end of its 6 year life its worth $10,000.

And I dont want to drive an 11 year old car...

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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.

Ask the dealer not to attach its name to the rear of your car unless the dealer is willing to pay you for the advertising space.

My new (in '04) car did not, at my request, have the dealer's name affixed. But later another dealer that did some work on my car affixed their name to my car. Fortunately it was just a sticker and I immediately peeled it off before it permanently adhered to my car's paint.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Some good info above. Definitely negotiate an "out the door" price. I think I PM'd you about my experience. Dealer tried to add about $6K of fees on top of their "best price". Another dealer selling the same vehicle had a higher base price, but only $2K of fees. So they can vary all over the map. One fee they tried to add was the "appearance package". $2K for window tinting, pin stripe, mud guard and floor mats. The salesman told me that the first thing they do when the vehicles are delivered was to add this package. So there was no way to not get it. We got them to take that fee off, but they kept the floor mats. I was able to get the exact same ones online for $140.

Also, definitely be prepared to walk away. Don't be rude about it. Just say that you don't think they'll be able to meet your price and thank them and walk out. They will follow you out the door and offer to drop their price. We told them what we were willing to pay, and didn't budge from what was a fair offer. It took a day of them calling several times before they finally met our price.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 09:09AM by rz.

Destination fee is real, it's a flat fee to deliver the car from the point of manufacturer, or import to the dealer . It's the same fee to any dealer, any location in the 48 states.

Prep fee is another term for an ADP fee. (Additional Dealer Profit). This fee is often pre printed on the contract to make it seem like it cannot be negotiated.

Documentation fee is another ADP that is explained to be the cost of preparing your title work and other paperwork.

here is a registration fee, which in most states cannot be marked up. Often a dealer will charge a flat fee, $100 or $200 and when your title comes in a refund for any overage paid, or a bill for any shortage will be paid when you get your registration.

Other fees, such as tire and battery fees are small and fixed by the state or federal government for environmental impacts.

There you go again, Dave Ramsey critics.
Let me tell you, his program is great, and it works. I can't say a lot now because I'm in the middle of it. Already I have changed my "broke thinking". And I thought I had finances under control.
When I complete his "baby step 2", I will post back here.

About the car payment, in his example he talks about the average payment in this country, and it's now over $500. I know 2 people who have already followed his car buying steps, and it works. Hopefully I won't have to buy one for years. I'll keep them running, and I don't care about the Jones's and what they drive. The Jones's are broke too, so I don't take their financial advice.

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Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Use the Costco car buying service, no surprises, the price the participating dealer quotes you is the price you pay.

Be very careful of Costco car buying service, they are not always the best deal, it depends on your location and local dealers. We ended up getting a much better price from a non participating Costco dealer on our own by hard negotiations than what the Costco recommended dealer offered. This was for a Toyota Prius for our daughter. As someone else above mentioned always ask for out the door costs so you are always comparing apples to apples so to speak.

Another thing I noticed about the Costco program is that it doesn't cover all models, in particular the base trim minivan of the brand I wanted was not an option.