Looking to help the folks redo their kitchen and adjoining dining and living rooms to create one large open room. Also might redo the bathroom. We have a few estimates and they all seem high to me. Of course it is in my nature to question the numbers as I am a deal seeker.

On a scale of skill I would rate myself as a 3 or 4 out of 10 (10 being most competent) when it comes to home improvement. I have no electrical skills. I did lay some time tile once and was part of a team that put up drywall.

This project would probably include tiling, possibly adding wooden flooring, taking down a wall or two, rewiring electrical, kitchen appliance additions, cabinet install, and plumbing. I know I do not have the skill level to do all this. Could I be the general contractor and hire people to work the trickier parts? I am being delusional or is this a good idea? Money well saved or headaches galore?

Any thoughts, warning, and help appreciated.

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if you're asking this publicly then the answer is likely 'no'.

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mattkime
if you're asking this publicly then the answer is likely 'no'.

Yep.

I will say that removing a similar wall in our older house made a HUGE difference. But we had a terrific person do this that was fair in price and excellent in quality.

I ask myself the same question sometimes.

I learned that prices vary A LOT. for example, I want to rewire 2 switches (I posted about this), and I think I could do some of the work myself, but I never cut and patched drywall, and I want to make sure I don't break any local electrical code, so I decided to hire a pro.

one guy gave us an estimate over the phone. One day eventually he came to have a look, we discussed into details what we have to do, and he committed to the original estimate of $400 + tax. But he as very busy and said he can't do it right away. Fine, we can wait.

I called him for the past few days and I could not reach him. Today an electrician showed up to do some work at my neighbor, and I asked him to come in and give me a quote. $1300. No kidding.

Luckily I was able to reach the first guy this afternoon and he comes on Thursday to do this job for $400.

Moral of the story is that you need to get more quotes, and also keep in mind that if you hire some guys to do only the smaller and trickier jobs, they might charge you more (per hour) than if you were contracting them for a larger job.

Your a deal searcher, I understand and appreciate that - but in remodeling sometimes that best deal isn't the best deal. Get a professional and learn to trust.

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Get three bids. If they all are in the same ballpark then pick the most reliable one. If one is a really low bidder be suspect. Don't give the the full $ amount until the work is to your (and the inspectors) satisfaction. They can bill you for work done (or draws in contractor lingo).

If you are getting a home improvement loan, most banks won't do it without a general contractor.

In a past life I was in this business.

I don't want to go cheap on the actual workmanship. I am leaning more toward hiring people for the parts I can't do and trying to handle the parts I can do to save money.

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As a general contractor you need to understand not only the scheduling and order of work but also how and why things need to be done, proper technique and workmanship. The finish that you can see is no more important than what lies underneath. There are right and wrong ways to do every task, with construction work there is almost every level in between. Everything from outdated methods to inferior products, the only way to know much of this is by years of experience. Some of these decisions are based on opinion, but your going to need the experience to be able to actually have one.

Some methods and products work better than others and not all contractors are willing to go the extra mile to be certain that things get done right. Others just don't care enough, they get it done, make it look right and get paid. If the underlying work is shoddy and you didn't know that, the pretty lipstick and mascara coating is not going to hold up. This is where the general must take charge, oversee and sometimes overrule his hired contractors.

Your general contractor really needs experience in most every aspect of the entire project. If you are unable to be on site every day, oversee the project start to finish and lay out how and when (and sometimes why) you want things done then you probably need a general contractor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2016 09:37PM by iamrfixit.

Absolutely, positively, definitely - DO IT!
Unless you can't live without the space for a couple months... Because when you're running the whole show, sometimes you run into delays.

Just doing the necessary 'tear out' work can save you a lot.
So can doing the drywall after the electrician and plumber are done, and before the cabinet guys come.

Planning; getting all the materials together, lining up the contractors you need for the parts you can't do, etc is the hard part.

By the way, most of the basic electrical stuff is pretty easy to do yourself. That doesn't get you "clear" when it comes to local building codes and inspection, but if you're just moving an outlet or lightswitch... Well... It's not hard to do right.

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Paul F.
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
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Eureka, CA

If you plan on changing the structure (removal of walls), I would suspect you need to have plans submitted to the local authority to be approved prior to getting a permit. Even electrical/plumbing updates would probably require a permit. And those will require inspections. In our city, if the homeowner pulls the permit, the homeowner is required to do a certain portion of the work. I wouldn't recommend removing walls unless you're absolutely certain that they are not load-bearing or the load is distributed elsewhere... Granted, a homeowner can do it, but in the long run, it's just easier to go with a contractor -- but you can opt to do certain jobs if he's willing to let you to save money (demo, finish electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc.)...

All the time I have required work to be done, the most qualified people who have given estimates (meaning the ones, that to me, seemed to know the most), have all had the lowest prices. The estimates from those contractors that didn't seem to know as much as I did were all higher...

you have to be able to schedule the whole choreography days/weeks in advance

you might actually be better off hiring a general contractor and having him pencil you in to the project with the skill sets you have as they are needed.


unless this is not a time constrained project and you can solicit mudders/tilers/flooring guys as needed and as you are ready. Some of these guys can't always just pencil somebody in.

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I've done this both ways with the house the wife and I have been in now for about 12 years.

Me as GC:
Did a complete demo of circa 1955 kitchen and attached hearth room/den -- down to studs. Also replaced subflooring and put in new [sheet] rock. Demo was easy. Also took out a wall to open up these 2 rooms (wall wasn't load bearing -- yes, always check with someone who knows their stuff here). Ended up needing to patch ceiling in a few places after we removed that wall. No biggie.

Rock was harder -- a lot of detail in mudding/sanding to get it looking good. Very dusty/dirty job, don't know if I'd want to do it again. A SKILLED buddy helped me (I'm about like you, but maybe a 6-7 on a Handy scale of 10; buddy was probably a 9) It all turned out fine. There is some detail wood work I did in the "wall" (beneath counter) of our kitchen bar that would've been better done by a pro but it doesn't bother my wife or me and unless you look very close at it, you cannot tell it isn't quite perfect.

Trim was not hard, again just detailed. I also laid tile floor mostly by myself and we get a lot of compliments on it. Tile saws and such can be bought or rented. There are also clinics at local home big boxes. Again, it is a detail job so if you're not a detail person, I'd hire it out. My buddy was good at plumbing and I learned a lot there to the point where I can do a fair amount of stuff myself now. Wiring is easy peasy for just adding an outlet or switch...make sure you read up / watch some youtube on that first though.

Don't mess with high voltage or gas. I always hire pros for that stuff.

I did pay my buddy a few grand to do all this...we did it in off hours over several months. But it saved me probably about 10-15k, maybe more.

We ordered cabs and counters and had counters installed via Lowe's which was a surprisingly good experience on all fronts, labor and materials - Kraft Maid cabs have held up very well, no issues. Installed cabs ourselves, and dishwasher. Sink was installed by a sink contractor.

Again, a lot of it is fairly easy stuff but you do need to either work with someone who's handy if you haven't done xyz before, or else I might recommend hiring it out. Hanging cabs properly is a little more involved than basic home wiring imho. There are tricks that pros/experienced people know that you simply won't.

We also installed 4 new windows. That I'd hire out if doing again. They are functional and all that, but i think a pro would've done a better job. Then again, a pro did our basement windows which I'm not overly happy with. Actually it was some guys from the window company who do side work...they were probably no more skilled than my buddy and me.

I hired the hardwood floor refinishing out. Went with cheapest outfit. Looking back, I'm pretty sure they were meth heads. They did an okay job, but not great. Spending 500-700 more would've yielded much better results I'm fairly certain. I was young, about 33 then. Live and learn.

Hiring a GC
I hired a remodeling company to do our 2 bathrooms and add a linen closet about 6 years ago. They hired out cabinetry and plumbing -- the latter involved moving a stack so was quite technical and not cheap. They did a good job overall and I'd likely hire them again; luckily I work at home and was around to ask questions and also in a few places make them do a better job than what I was seeing...there was an angled wall that involved some detail sanding/mudding and the contractor phoned it in...I got on him to do it right. He did the second time, and was good about it...it just took a little encouragement. I don't think he was a detail guy and again, rock is not easy to do right.

So that is the kind of stuff you might run into. Or if you're very lucky -- you won't. We had granite tops installed in both baths...this is a '50s house so they're small and we were able to get remnants for a lot cheaper than full slabs, so shop remnants if possible. Contractor (remodeling owner) measured wrong in mbr by 1/2 inch...so they had to "float" a wall out. Not the end of the world but not uncommon I guess.

They hired out the tile work which is extensive in both baths. These guys you have to watch over also...the guy used the wrong color grout in the tile above our hall shower and it was done before we noticed...he was kind of a dick about it too. It wasn't the end of the world, and we were kind of worn down by that point (this was about 7 weeks into it), so we let it go; we shouldn't have. We paid good money for him to use what we had selected, and he didn't. Lessons learned.

Which is better to do -- be your own GC or hire it out? Depends what you have time/money/skill for, really. I know these guys did a really nice job on the bathrooms, certainly a lot better than I would've done as that stuff is pretty technical...we had a shower with glass walls installed, blew out a wall, moved stack, new toilets/sinks, and custom cabs, I don't tackle those kinds of jobs. So hiring a company to do that for us was well worth it.

I will say that the custom cabs are nice, but we don't think they were worth the upcharge vs. the Kraft Maid kitchen cabs we have. That part we would do change if we were to do it over. The rest: all good.

Happy remodeling!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2016 12:46AM by SteveO.

Or something like this...

[www.google.com]{moz:distributionID}:{moz:locale}:{mozfficial}&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU1ojWsI3LAhXIOz4KHcTfCugQ_AUIBigA&biw=1046&bih=980&dpr=1.33

So in essence you want "us" the MRF community to be your general contractor

pRICE,

Based on how you asked the question, my advice is to hire a reputable general contractor and guide him/her as to what you exactly want when it comes to the renovations. The contractor will know the current codes, permit requirements and a slew of other things that can have a _huge_ impact on your project(s). Think expertise in several areas including project management, workflow, proper licensing, insurance, workman's comp, cleanup after demolition, you name it. If something goes wrong with the project, it's on the contractor, not you.

Key to _any_ work is making sure you're available and/or on hand for the job. People who tell the contractor what he/she wants and doesn't keep an eye on what's going on tend to have less positive results. They might come home to find dust in every part of the house because the contractor didn't close off areas properly prior to prepping a room for painting or refinishing floors. 'course, a reputable, good contractor won't let things like that happen but you don't want to chance it.

I've done the "be my own contractor" thing. I'd do it again only for a small job, i.e. refinishing a floor. Anything more than that, I'd definitely go with a general contractor and I'd make sure to do my homework about him/her. That and I'd also educate myself about the job, so when the contractor speaks, I won't be clueless about what he/she is saying to me.

Robert

SteveO, thanks!

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