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Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: October 13, 2016 08:03PM
[jalopnik.com]

For years now carmakers have been avoiding addressing the Trolley Problem. In the event of an imminent crash, who does your car protect: you, the occupant, or a pedestrian?

There’s a good reason for that: there’s no good answer for the Trolley Problem.

Option one is you get bad PR that your future self-driving car wants to kill you.

Option two is you get bad PR that your future self-driving car wants to mercilessly kill whomever makes the mistake of standing in your way. You can see that neither is a great choice.

Mercedes, for some reason, decided to go all in on that second option.

...All of Mercedes-Benz’s future Level 4 and Level 5 autonomous cars will prioritize saving the people they carry, according to Christoph von Hugo, the automaker’s manager of driver assistance systems and active safety.

...a Mercedes S-Class or whatever, driving down the road, will happily if not gleefully run over a child if it guaranteed saving the caviar-guzzling millionaire inside. Not just a child. An orphan. A group of orphans. A group of sick, orphans with leprosy.




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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 13, 2016 08:08PM
I can see why they do that. Who would buy a car if you knew that YOUR CAR would risk your life to save someone else's life?
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 13, 2016 08:22PM
Quote
space-time
I can see why they do that. Who would buy a car if you knew that YOUR CAR would risk your life to save someone else's life?

It is an obvious decision. Why would I kill myself to save a stranger in the case of an accident where neither one of us is at fault.



C(-)ris
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: bik
Date: October 13, 2016 08:42PM
Quote
Onamuji
...a Mercedes S-Class or whatever, driving down the road, will happily if not gleefully run over a child if it guaranteed saving the caviar-guzzling millionaire inside. Not just a child. An orphan. A group of orphans. A group of sick, orphans with leprosy.

Well, honestly... what kind of life was that anyway?
Let's just keep the caviar flowing.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: October 13, 2016 09:35PM
Quote
bik
Quote
Onamuji
...a Mercedes S-Class or whatever, driving down the road, will happily if not gleefully run over a child if it guaranteed saving the caviar-guzzling millionaire inside. Not just a child. An orphan. A group of orphans. A group of sick, orphans with leprosy.

Well, honestly... what kind of life was that anyway?

We can cure leprosy these days.



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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: max
Date: October 13, 2016 10:35PM
Quote
bik
Let's just keep the caviar flowing.

Caviar flowing?
That must be really some cheap stuff you got there.......
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 13, 2016 11:12PM
I pointed out that we'd have a LOT of questions to answer about how autonomous cars would prioritize whose life gets saved a week or two ago...
I don't know what the "right" moral choice is... I just know it's going to be a painful process getting our software, our laws, and our morals aligned with each other... And thats going to hold up,self driving cars more than the technology is.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: October 13, 2016 11:59PM
In the same vein, never send a PR person to do an engineer's job.



It is what it is.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 14, 2016 12:22AM
"Three laws safe"
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: October 14, 2016 01:56AM
Everybody relax! Google has it covered and no sick, orphaned leppers need to die!


Now everyone can find out what it feels like to be a hood ornament!



- Jack D.




New tasteless sig coming soon!
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 14, 2016 07:34AM
Seems like the correct stance to me...but, then again, I'm an engineer.



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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: mikebw
Date: October 14, 2016 08:48AM
The question presented is a moral dilemma, something that will be extremely challenging for a computer to handle for a long time. Do you place a higher value on the life of a person who is younger, more law abiding, educated, more philanthropic, creative, healthier, or potentially has a high level job? What if it were Steve Jobs 20 years ago, or The President? (I know they would not be allowed to drive themselves). I think it is nearly impossible to make that kind of decision even after considering all these factors which would be undefined in the few seconds before an accident.

I agree with Mr. Hugo. Everyone I know who is concerned about safety features when they are car shopping is doing so because they want to ensure their own well-being first, secondarily so for the rest of the world. We do not see cars with airbags on the outside for a reason.

I would be very hesitant to buy a car knowing that it would not prioritize my safety with so many other unknowns.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: October 14, 2016 09:43AM
A false dilemma.

An autonomous vehicle can't distinguish between a child and a trashcan in the road.

They're all the same to the computer - just obstacles.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 14, 2016 10:08AM
Quote
Bill in NC
A false dilemma.

An autonomous vehicle can't distinguish between a child and a trashcan in the road.

They're all the same to the computer - just obstacles.

Yet...



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: October 14, 2016 11:55AM
Probably never, just for cost reasons - make it as cheaply as possible.

So, do you really want your car to send itself over a cliff (with you inside) because it assumes debris that has been blown by the wind or been thrown in front of your vehicle is really a child running out into the street?

Quote
Paul F.
Quote
Bill in NC
A false dilemma.

An autonomous vehicle can't distinguish between a child and a trashcan in the road.

They're all the same to the computer - just obstacles.

Yet...
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: bik
Date: October 14, 2016 12:09PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
bik
Quote
Onamuji
...a Mercedes S-Class or whatever, driving down the road, will happily if not gleefully run over a child if it guaranteed saving the caviar-guzzling millionaire inside. Not just a child. An orphan. A group of orphans. A group of sick, orphans with leprosy.

Well, honestly... what kind of life was that anyway?

We can cure leprosy these days.

Well, once they're cured, Mercedes will have to work that into their algorithm.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: bik
Date: October 14, 2016 12:11PM
Quote
max
Quote
bik
Let's just keep the caviar flowing.

Caviar flowing?
That must be really some cheap stuff you got there.......

Hey, I'm not the Mercedes S owner who's guzzling it.
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Re: Never Send An Engineer To Do A PR Person's Job
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: October 14, 2016 06:01PM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
Bill in NC
A false dilemma.

An autonomous vehicle can't distinguish between a child and a trashcan in the road.

They're all the same to the computer - just obstacles.

Yet...

Facial recognition can take care of that in all but the most extreme edge-cases.





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