It's time for a new hot water heater. We're looking at 40-60 gallons, natural gas, energy star, power damper.

I'd really welcome any suggestions for brands or models that are particularly good, and any ways to save money.

Thanks!

If my water were hot I would not bother to heat it.

Depends on what you have available in your area for energy credits.

When I purchased this one [smile.amazon.com] several years ago I wasable to take a $1,500.00 tax credit.

It has been outstanding. We also neededthe 80 gallon for a large tub fill.

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Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

Depends on what you have available in your area for energy credits.

When I purchased this one [smile.amazon.com] several years ago I wasable to take a $1,500.00 tax credit.

It has been outstanding. We also needed the 80 gallon for a large tub fill.

---

Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

---

Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

Less than a month ago I paid $1700 for a 40 gallon, natural gas, energy star, with a power damper. It replaced a different model 40 gallon n, natural gas, energy star, with a power damper (the old damper wouldn't fit the new heater.). The price included installation and disposal of the old heater. The brand was what the plumber wanted to install. Came with a six year warranty and a $75 rebate from our gas supplier.

The old heater didn't leak, just that the control valve valve failed and a new valve cost $700+. The heater was near EOL as far as leaking so I just sprong for the whole thing.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2018 06:18PM by Speedy.

In 2014 I replaced the 15-year old natural gas water heater that was in the house when I bought the house. At the time it seemed like tankless only makes economic sense in certain circumstances, and since I'd have to make significant exhausting and feed changes to go tankless, I opted for another 'normal' water heater. As I understand it there are only a couple major manufacturers, which make most of the heaters. My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon. So far it's just worked, no issues. I drain a couple gallons out of it every couple weeks to try to keep sediment to a minimum. YMMV.

Geez, I think I paid about $800 for fully installed with disposal.

Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs.

I got an electric 40 gallon a few months ago for $299 plus $45 installation.

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Dennis S
I got an electric 40 gallon a few months ago for $299 plus $45 installation.

$45 installation???????????????? you mean only $45? there is no typo?

The plumber is my nephew's best friend.

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Bixby
My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon.

That's almost, but not quite, true. The difference between a 6-year and 12-year heater is that the 6-year has a single sacrificial anode rod and the 12-year has two of them. Each rod will last around 6 to 10 years. Once the rod has been consumed, the heater will self-destruct via corrosion in short order. To get around this it is fairly easy to install a second combo rod/dipstick into a 6-year heater. You can also replace the anode rods every 6 years (they unscrew out the top of the tank) though this can sometimes be tricky if the threads are corroded. Most people just wait until their water heater self-destructs and then buy a new one. It's much more economical to replace the rod every now and then.

---

"Man is a little germ that lives on an unimportant rock ball that revolves about a small star at the outskirts of an ordinary galaxy. ... I am absolutely amazed to discover myself on this rock ball rotating around a spherical fire. It's a very odd situation. And the more I look at things I cannot get rid of the feeling that existence is quite weird. -- Alan Watts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2018 08:39PM by davester.

then please mention details like these... most other people would pay 4-5x more or even more.

Take a look at a Takagi T-K4-OS-NG Tankless. That particular one is a direct vent, so it mounts on the outside of the house and there is no need for stainless steel exhaust vent lines. It will need the gas line to it, and a 120 electrical line. Plumbing can be 3/4" PVC.

We have had the earlier version since 2009, it has been great. I bought it from Plumbingsupply.com for about $700 and did most of the install myself. I did bring a licensed contractor in for the gas line, but that was only for homeowners insurance reasons.

While we didn't put one in, Takagi also has a remote that you can preset water temps into. You like it at 110 while the Mrs. prefers 104? you set it once and all you need to do is touch a button.

I doubt I'll ever go back to a tank heater.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

Quote
testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs.

60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.

---

The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]

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davester

Quote
Bixby
My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon.

That's almost, but not quite, true. The difference between a 6-year and 12-year heater is that the 6-year has a single sacrificial anode rod and the 12-year has two of them. Each rod will last around 6 to 10 years. Once the rod has been consumed, the heater will self-destruct via corrosion in short order. To get around this it is fairly easy to install a second combo rod/dipstick into a 6-year heater. You can also replace the anode rods every 6 years (they unscrew out the top of the tank) though this can sometimes be tricky if the threads are corroded. Most people just wait until their water heater self-destructs and then buy a new one. It's much more economical to replace the rod every now and then.

You can also go with an electric 'anode' if you want your heater to last forever. About $500 extra.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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billb

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testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs.

60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.

do you ALWAYS put 80 gallons of 130+ degree water in your tub? That's pretty darn hot.

If I were going to spend $1500+ on a water heater, it would be tankless, a la Ombligo’s recommendation. Unlimited hot water, and overall lower energy costs - you’re not paying to keep water hot all the time.

I, however, didn’t have the dollars for that when I replaced my heater a couple of years ago, so I found a new in box 50 gal NG heater on Craigslist that someone bought but didn’t use for $300. Installed myself. Has been working great.

If you have hard water, you may want to rethink a tankless heater. They tend to get plugged up.

My in-laws have an old hot water heater with a pilot light. We have a new energy-efficient water heater. Guess who had nice hot water in the last major power outage?

If I had to choose again. I would go with an older model water heater with pilot light. The little bit of comfort with taking a hot shower in the misery of a power outage is worth it to me.

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Racer X

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billb

Quote
testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs.

60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.

do you ALWAYS put 80 gallons of 130+ degree water in your tub? That's pretty darn hot.

do you ever put 30 gallons of a 40 gallon tank in a 100 gallon tub ?
in a house of teenage girls ?

---

The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2018 08:43AM by billb.

Lowes and Amazon just under a grand.

Shower while doing laundry and never run out. This is the larger of two sizes.

This is my second one. My first one was a Bosch. I lost a neutral to my house last summer and it took out a lot of stuff including the hot water heater. It was 12 years old. Parts were not available.

This is the next generation for sure.
Another hundred for vent kit. One hole for double plastic pipe that sucks in the outer part and vents the hot out the middle.

My old one had a separate inlet and the outlet vent was double walled stainless pipe. They have come a long way since I got into this.

You said GAS.

I would never suggest an electric one.

I have a couple of Portable power inverters for the power outage thing. This take little AC drain. Been there done that.
Whole house back up standby gen now.

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Staunton, Virginia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2018 09:01AM by Bernie.

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3d
My in-laws have an old hot water heater with a pilot light. We have a new energy-efficient water heater. Guess who had nice hot water in the last major power outage?

If I had to choose again. I would go with an older model water heater with pilot light. The little bit of comfort with taking a hot shower in the misery of a power outage is worth it to me.

can you hook up the water heater to a USP during outage? just to light up that flame and get it going.

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Bixby
In 2014 I replaced the 15-year old natural gas water heater that was in the house when I bought the house. At the time it seemed like tankless only makes economic sense in certain circumstances, and since I'd have to make significant exhausting and feed changes to go tankless, I opted for another 'normal' water heater. As I understand it there are only a couple major manufacturers, which make most of the heaters. My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon. So far it's just worked, no issues. I drain a couple gallons out of it every couple weeks to try to keep sediment to a minimum. YMMV.

Tankless gas water heaters do have specs that indicate you need a larger than normal gas supply, and this is usually what stops people from putting them into homes as replacements for older gas water heaters. I went thru this dance myself and finally gave up on the tankless and went with a Rheem from Home Depot. The warranty on it is fantastic as is the company. The control unit on mine went out not long after I installed it and I called Rheem. They told me my unit wasn't registered for warranty, then did it for me over the phone. Then they told me since it was under warranty they'd send me a new control unit overnight and even dispatch an installer to put it in for me if I wanted.

Now, back to tankless. I've since talked to a number of people who had tankless units installed without bothering to upgrade their gas supply lines. Not a single one of them told me of any problems. In fact, all were extremely happy with the tankless. If I ever have to replace my Rheem again, I'm going tankless.

I have a 1/2" gas line feeding my heater with 3/4" waterlines. (the other line is also a 3/4" PVC that has a 120v electric run to the heater and then on out to my shed.

The fumes vent from the slots at the top.

---

“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

Quote
Ombligo
I have a 1/2" gas line feeding my heater with 3/4" waterlines. (the other line is also a 3/4" PVC that has a 120v electric run to the heater and then on out to my shed.

The fumes vent from the slots at the top.

Hey Ombligo, this is very intriguing to me. Do I have the diagram more or less correct below?

Couple of questions:
This is outside as you said before...is it fully exposed to the elements or in a covered area?
Are you in a colder climate?
Does it need a dedicated circuit?
Any idea if the water lines can be Pex?
Is it loud at all?

Currently have a standard water heater in a closet. Would love to regain that space. Very modest 2bd/1ba house with exterior wall that is within 10-15' of the kitchen sink, bathtub and vanity. Also right next to our service panel, gas line and water line.

Last time I looked into this was a while back and hadn't realized the existence of outdoor units. This might be so much easier than I had ever thought.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2018 12:31AM by Bo.

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Staunton, Virginia

Thanks Bernie that's pretty simple!

Is that fully code compliant? Just did some cursory searches and only came up with pex needing to be 18" or more downstream of a conventionall water heater. Nothing about tankless.

No such code here but not a problem. My tub /Shower set up is a hybrid for rigidity and confidence reasons.

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Staunton, Virginia

I have a tankless water heater on my Chevy Volt. It puts out a pretty good amount of heat even when it is 16°F out (15°F and below the engine runs to provide heat). However, it does use a lot of juice. I don't know what type of hot water (coolant) line is used...

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

I just said goodbye to a 40 gal water heater from 1988 (that came with a 5 year warranty!). It was still working fine, but since I was having my whole furnace and A/C replaced, I figure might as well do that too. Upgraded to a 50 gal that was recommended by the guy doing my HVAC. He says no way will it last 30 years...hopefully 10! Whole HVAC system and water heater replaced for $5900!