I carpooled up to a School IT People meeting (about 90 miles north of me) with a couple other school "tech people", and we rode in one of the guys brand new (got it last week) Tesla Model 3.

Let me tell ya - it's frickin' awesome!

Very comfortable (Front seat and back, I rode front on the way up, back on the way home), if a bit small in back for a largish guy like me. Plenty headroom for a 5'10" me.

300+ mile range, fit and finish was GREAT (despite what you might read). Very comfy seats. GREAT acceleration. Quiet as a thief (the road and wind were making the noise, and the insulation from that was very good). Great ride through the "slalom course" that is the road from Arcata to Crescent City.

The owner showed off the auto-drive features... it DOES warn you if you are "hands off" for more than 30 seconds to put your hands on the wheel.

The "Auto Speed Cruise Control" was worth having all by itself - set the speed at 60, and it already knows a "safe" following distance, so if the person in front of you is going 50, you'll be going 50. If you change lanes or he moves, you speed up to 60.

It comes with a "charging kit". You can plug it in to 240v (best) and it charges at a rate of 40 miles of range per hour (so, under 10 hours from dead empty to full charge). You can plug in to 120v and charge at 4 miles range per hour (that's gonna take longer... best for "topping up" at work, etc). OR, you can charge up at a Supercharger station (of which there are 600+ nationwide, with more than another 100 currently under construction or in the permitting process that should complete in the next 12 months, with hundreds more planned). On a Supercharger, from empty to 80% capacity, takes about 30 minutes. Dead full takes about an hour. There are getting to be damn few major highways or interstates that don't have Supercharger stations every 150 miles. Stop for lunch, charge up, and get another 250 miles.

One of those is probably going to be my next used car in 10 years! I'm gonna run the wheels off my '07 Prius first.

I'm also glad I have some TSLA stock. Tesla may have some production issues right now, but once they get up to speed, they're going to sell every Model 3 they can make, even if they are making them faster than projected for "full production" - they're not going to sit there unsold.

They aren't a "nice electric car"... they're a NICE CAR!

Let the whining begin!

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

I think they show HUGE promise. 4 driven wheels due this summer-ish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2018 10:28PM by Racer X.

Quote
Racer X
I think they show HUGE promise. 4 driven wheels due this summer-ish.

What I find REALLY interesting are features that are already "in hardware" that are just waiting for the software update to enable. The hardware for fully-autonomous driving is already installed in the Model 3. It lacks the software - which is being worked on and tested (and yes, there are issues with fully autonomous driving that are need addressing - it's getting there).

I don't know if the 4-driven-wheels is a hardware or software change.

I will say that it cornered pretty damn nicely (from a passengers perspective) on the windy roads, not a peep from the tires. With the battery weight being very low on the frame, there SURE weren't any worries about getting "tippy"!

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

I think it is a second powered axle, like the current sedan. cheap pocket rocket. I'm sure it will be neutered in software to not be as fast as the expensive Tesla.

Thanks for the review. I put down $1000 the day they were announced. 2 weeks ago, I received a notification that my Model 3 is ready to be ordered. However, I don't have a need for one now. I guess I'll get my $1000 back and buy some more shares of TSLA, since it is a bit depressed recently.

Quote
DavidS
Thanks for the review. I put down $1000 the day they were announced. 2 weeks ago, I received a notification that my Model 3 is ready to be ordered. However, I don't have a need for one now. I guess I'll get my $1000 back and buy some more shares of TSLA, since it is a bit depressed recently.

Buy the car, turn around and sell it for purchase price plus $3000, then put the $3,000 into TSLA. I doubt you'll have to wait long for a buyer.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Electric is where it's at, baby! The problem for Tesla is that now they have no serious competition for the 3. But soon enough (5 years) every car maker will be flush with electrics and Tesla is very likely to be odd man out. However, they seem to have a nice lead in batteries. The ICE is dead, flush your oil stocks from your IRA.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

You got lucky with the weather today — I think I heard it hit 70º in Crescent City.

There is a Tesla charging station here, behind the Redwood State and National Parks office.

---

Northern California Coast

no Tesla story but I did just buy a car with adaptive cruise control and now I can't live without it.

Quote
Speedy
But soon enough (5 years) every car maker will be flush with electrics and Tesla is very likely to be odd man out.

It'll take more than 5 years. Tesla is thinking way differently than car companies. They won't change enough in the next 10 years. Apple or Google have a chance, but so far we've seen squat from them.

---

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Quote
Paul F.

Quote
DavidS
Thanks for the review. I put down $1000 the day they were announced. 2 weeks ago, I received a notification that my Model 3 is ready to be ordered. However, I don't have a need for one now. I guess I'll get my $1000 back and buy some more shares of TSLA, since it is a bit depressed recently.

Buy the car, turn around and sell it for purchase price plus $3000, then put the $3,000 into TSLA. I doubt you'll have to wait long for a buyer.

Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. I've seen some ads locally looking for interest in doing this (I'll buy the car for you and flip it into your name right after delivery). For me, that's a big gamble to make for less than 10% gain. I don't have $40K to put up right now.

Understandable... So, offer it up for $10,000 over purchase price!

Quote
DavidS

Quote
Paul F.

Quote
DavidS
Thanks for the review. I put down $1000 the day they were announced. 2 weeks ago, I received a notification that my Model 3 is ready to be ordered. However, I don't have a need for one now. I guess I'll get my $1000 back and buy some more shares of TSLA, since it is a bit depressed recently.

Buy the car, turn around and sell it for purchase price plus $3000, then put the $3,000 into TSLA. I doubt you'll have to wait long for a buyer.

Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. I've seen some ads locally looking for interest in doing this (I'll buy the car for you and flip it into your name right after delivery). For me, that's a big gamble to make for less than 10% gain. I don't have $40K to put up right now.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

I purchased a Model S 85D (85kW battery, dual motors (AWD)) 3 years ago. 78,000 and no issues, no oil changes, no warning codes just competent, shockingly fast great handling fun. At 11 cents per kWh the electricity is less than half the cost of gas.

The Model 3 is supposed to handle even better and get higher mileage (Wh/mi)!

This is such a great car that once I start talking about it people just roll their eyes at me.

Despite the eye rolls this is the best car I've ever owned.

If the Model 3 is anywhere near as good it'll be a mega-hit for Elon.

John

They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

I don't even care for the touchscreen radio I put in my car, I would hate to use a touchscreen for everything while driving. TBFTW! (Tactile buttons for the win!).

In reality, if I was actually in the market, I doubt the touchscreen would be a deal breaker, just a massive annoyance.

what is the cost of this Tesla? really expensive aren't they?

Here's hoping they can get the 3s off the production line without killing any of their manufacturing staff. Not looking good so far....

---

rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

thanks for the review. I would love one. But anyone looking to buy the model 3 should also probably test drive the Bolt since that is cheaper and available right now.

Quote
Paul F.
Do NOT ignore this car!

You ain't the boss of me!

Quote
Gareth
Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

Solution: No lock on the glove box. Just use a simple handle/lever mechanism like everyone else does. Don't fix what ain't broken.

...

I live in an apartment where charging is not practical and need more range than present battery tech allows. Teslas are not built for me.

...But I have a very nice hybrid.

---

Quote
samintx
what is the cost of this Tesla? really expensive aren't they?

It wasn’t cheap.

My Model S with AWD, bigger battery, winter package and tech package (autopilot, radar cruise control, etc) was $91,000.
Less the tax credit it was $83,500.

John

---

For some must watch, while some must sleep
So runs the world away

Come ON!
The forum members here split hairs over a $27k Subaru!

Quote
michaelb
thanks for the review. I would love one. But anyone looking to buy the model 3 should also probably test drive the Bolt since that is cheaper and available right now.

Yes, Bolts are just OK, maybe as a second car, but if you intend to have an electric car, an all electric car, the charging network is a very important part of the criteria you need to consider. Luckily, with my Model S, I get free supercharging when I travel, but, if that is not included, it works out to between 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 cents per mile. I live in an area where electricity is very expensive, and when I charge at night, it worked out to about 3.3¢ per mile traveled in expensive PG&E, I now have solar, so, once my solar array was paid for, I drive for free. (edited to correct my dictation on price per mile-Thanks Space-time

I speak from experience, in three years of Tesla ownership I have logged over 85,000 miles, that entire time, it has been my only car. For the solar eclipse I took a 3700 mile trip, from near Sacramento, through 10 parks in Utah, heading up to Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The finale was watching the eclipse from Eastern Idaho. Some of those days consisted of 500 mile drives, and I spent less than an hour charging, that wasn’t while I was eating a meal. Charging was convenient and easily accessible with very slight planning needed before hand.

Yes, on longer drives, it takes a little more time to charge in route than it does to fill with gas. What needs to be taken into perspective is, with 300 miles of range, rather than stopping at a gas station twice a week, like I did before, I’m saving those 30 minutes a week, and putting "saved time" away in a “bank of time“ that I withdraw from when I make long-distance travel. The difference of spending 10 seconds plugging my car in every night, versus going out of my way and spending time at a gas station is dramatic.

I didn’t get a Tesla to be green, I’m a car guy, a gearhead, for a long time. I owned Porsches, and Saabs, without a doubt, it’s the most exciting car I’ve ever owned. From a tech aspect, it’s wonderful that it constantly get software update. Beyond that, driving with autopilot ia a joy, it’s much safer, and more relaxing. Stop and go trafffiis no longer painful, especially since in California I get to use an HOV sticker.

Here is a site that tracks Supercharger deployment. Each dot represents a Supercharger location. There is an average of 10 charging stalls er station. Two in California have 40 stalls. Elsa’s can also charge at mos public charging facilities. [supercharge.info]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2018 12:32PM by Ken Sp..

Quote
3d
Come ON!
The forum members here split hairs over a $27k Subaru!

In a few months, $35,000 Model 3s will be available, some will qualify for $7,500 in tax incentives. Virtually no maintenance, and travel at around 80% less than using gas.

Quote
DavidS

Quote
Paul F.

Quote
DavidS
Thanks for the review. I put down $1000 the day they were announced. 2 weeks ago, I received a notification that my Model 3 is ready to be ordered. However, I don't have a need for one now. I guess I'll get my $1000 back and buy some more shares of TSLA, since it is a bit depressed recently.

Buy the car, turn around and sell it for purchase price plus $3000, then put the $3,000 into TSLA. I doubt you'll have to wait long for a buyer.

Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. I've seen some ads locally looking for interest in doing this (I'll buy the car for you and flip it into your name right after delivery). For me, that's a big gamble to make for less than 10% gain. I don't have $40K to put up right now.

It isn’t easy to do the "order transfer" to a non-family member. As a first day line waiter, and current owner, I had very early availability. I did arrange to transfer my two reservations, one to my nephew, and one for significant $$$. That ship has sailed. Too many people, late to the game, are not doing this successfully.

....see any back seat action.....??

---

_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Most people hear about the 4miles/hr charge rate on 110v and immediately think that's too slow. Unless you're commuting 40+ miles each day, that isn't really an issue. I drive to/from work in my Volt and only use about 20miles/day. It is plugged in when I get home around 18:00 and it's charged by midnight. If I completely deplete the battery it will be charged by 6:30 in the morning just as I'm leaving. I was considering getting a Bolt, but I'm not sure about that yet.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

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samintx
what is the cost of this Tesla? really expensive aren't they?

The model that is currently available is probably running about $40k-$45k out the door. There's a $7500 tax break, but that only applies if you have more than $7500 in tax liabilities. But anyone who can afford a $40k car probably incurs more than $7500 in taxes. The Chevy Bolt has a bit more range and costs about $3k-$5k less. Of course...it's a Chevy so it doesn't have quite the same impact as saying "I own a Tesla"... GM and Tesla are likely to lose the $7500 tax break this year since they'll have sold too many EVs to keep it.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

I don't even care for the touchscreen radio I put in my car, I would hate to use a touchscreen for everything while driving. TBFTW! (Tactile buttons for the win!).

In reality, if I was actually in the market, I doubt the touchscreen would be a deal breaker, just a massive annoyance.

The plan is eventually to have Tesla fleet that rivals Uber in for hire travel. Most people only use their cars for about 5-10% of their waking hours. Eventually your car will drop you off at work and go earn money for you.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
ztirffritz

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

I don't even care for the touchscreen radio I put in my car, I would hate to use a touchscreen for everything while driving. TBFTW! (Tactile buttons for the win!).

In reality, if I was actually in the market, I doubt the touchscreen would be a deal breaker, just a massive annoyance.

The plan is eventually to have Tesla fleet that rivals Uber in for hire travel. Most people only use their cars for about 5-10% of their waking hours. Eventually your car will drop you off at work and go earn money for you.

To be vandalized and destroyed on the first day, and insurance will fail to cover your roving car.
That scenario is still a good 30 years away, practically speaking.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Quote
ztirffritz
Most people hear about the 4miles/hr charge rate on 110v and immediately think that's too slow. Unless you're commuting 40+ miles each day, that isn't really an issue. I drive to/from work in my Volt and only use about 20miles/day. It is plugged in when I get home around 18:00 and it's charged by midnight. If I completely deplete the battery it will be charged by 6:30 in the morning just as I'm leaving. I was considering getting a Bolt, but I'm not sure about that yet.

Or, just run the extension cord to your 240v dryer outlet... 40 miles charge per charging hour.
Or, have an electrician run a 240v line from your breaker box to a convenient spot.
Some people way over-complicate this.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Quote
Paul F.

Quote
ztirffritz

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

I don't even care for the touchscreen radio I put in my car, I would hate to use a touchscreen for everything while driving. TBFTW! (Tactile buttons for the win!).

In reality, if I was actually in the market, I doubt the touchscreen would be a deal breaker, just a massive annoyance.

The plan is eventually to have Tesla fleet that rivals Uber in for hire travel. Most people only use their cars for about 5-10% of their waking hours. Eventually your car will drop you off at work and go earn money for you.

To be vandalized and destroyed on the first day, and insurance will fail to cover your roving car.
That scenario is still a good 30 years away, practically speaking.

Actually--if your Model 3 is enrolled and working on the Tesla Network, Tesla will split the revenue with you, pay for the electricity and provide the insurance.

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Kinda of a strange takeaway from the OP.

And if you haven never sat and touched the screen in a Tesla, you are in for a surprise -- its not some POS windows ME looking icons touch 10X to work thing.

Think iPad Pro. Which if you havent touched a newer iPad I guess that might be lost too... but its instant. No lag.

---

Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.

Quote
Paul F.
Or, just run the extension cord to your 240v dryer outlet... 40 miles charge per charging hour.
Or, have an electrician run a 240v line from your breaker box to a convenient spot.
Some people way over-complicate this.

Eh, I don't see how this differs from ZipCar or car2go.

---

Of note: BBB ratings not so good.

[www.bbb.org]

[www.cnet.com]

Tesla just got a failing grade, and not from the many folks waiting for their Model 3 to come online. No, the Better Business Bureau gave the company an "F" for not resolving customer complaints, sometimes not even responding to complaints.

According to a report in the Mercury News, the BBB received 65 official complaints about Tesla, but only 23 were resolved satisfactorily. Of the remaining complaints, Tesla responded to 10 of them but didn't offer an adequate solution and in 15 cases the company didn't respond at all. In the remaining cases, the BBB says Tesla responded to the problem but either the customer rejected the response or didn't notify the bureau that the issue had been resolved.

---

---

Quote
jdc

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Kinda of a strange takeaway from the OP.

And if you haven never sat and touched the screen in a Tesla, you are in for a surprise -- its not some POS windows ME looking icons touch 10X to work thing.

Think iPad Pro. Which if you havent touched a newer iPad I guess that might be lost too... but its instant. No lag.

I just wanted to present "another side of the coin". I have no doubt that the touchscreen is instantaneous. That's not my issue. My issue is that you have to LOOK at a touchscreen to find a "button". Old school buttons require a glance, if that to use. I think it's a weird strategy to create an interface that causes more distracted driving than the old method. You have to use the touchscreen to change the wiper speed and change the intermittent setting.

Quote
mattkime

Quote
Paul F.
Or, just run the extension cord to your 240v dryer outlet... 40 miles charge per charging hour.
Or, have an electrician run a 240v line from your breaker box to a convenient spot.
Some people way over-complicate this.

Eh, I don't see how this differs from ZipCar or car2go.

You don't go to the car. The car comes to you and drives you to your destination, then goes on to pick up another passenger. Tesla is also working on ways to automate charging so it can automatically connect to a charger and recharge without use intervention. GM is working on the same thing with a fleet of autonomous Chevy Bolts. I think that we're about 5, maybe 10 years away from having this working in certain urban environments. Mostly on the west coast I'd guess. East coast cities are too chaotic and completely disorganized with 85 year old outdated signs.

People who haven't used an electric vehicle yet don't comprehend how vastly superior the EV experience is to an ICE. The engineer in me appreciates the clever ways that people have made infernal combustion engines work better to squeeze out more power and efficiency...but an EV is light years ahead in almost every category. It has 1/1000th the number of moving parts, far fewer consumables (no oil changes, fewer brake changes), is WAY more efficient, just as powerful, and vastly more reliable. The switch to EVs is going to happen very quickly. Just as horses disappeared from streets almost overnight, the same will happen for diesel/gasoline powered vehicles. I'd guess that in 15-20 years most fuel stations will be closed or the price of gasoline will go up by 5-10 times current price because of the drop in demand. It's going to be interesting to see such a rapid upheaval of something that has been part of our national identity for so long. New businesses and business models will spring up in the vacuum left behind. My concern is that huge companies like Exxon are going to get caught with their pants down as their revenue plummets by 30%/year, liquidate all of their assets and walk away from MASSIVE environmental time bombs abandoned in the oceans all over the world.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
Gareth

Quote
jdc

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Kinda of a strange takeaway from the OP.

And if you haven never sat and touched the screen in a Tesla, you are in for a surprise -- its not some POS windows ME looking icons touch 10X to work thing.

Think iPad Pro. Which if you havent touched a newer iPad I guess that might be lost too... but its instant. No lag.

I just wanted to present "another side of the coin". I have no doubt that the touchscreen is instantaneous. That's not my issue. My issue is that you have to LOOK at a touchscreen to find a "button". Old school buttons require a glance, if that to use. I think it's a weird strategy to create an interface that causes more distracted driving than the old method. You have to use the touchscreen to change the wiper speed and change the intermittent setting.

First, there is no intermittent, only on or 2 levels of automatic for the wipers-utilizing one of the 3 forward facing cameras for detection. Wipers, and many controls will be controlled by a steering wheel scroll wheel, like on the Model S & X.

Currently, some controls are adjusted by voice, and they are striving to implement more. Using voice for Navigation is FAR superior to Siri (which I fully embrace)

How many total miles does one battery last for? Does quick-charge shorten the battery life?

---

Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2018 12:57PM by Ammo.

Quote
Gareth

Quote
jdc

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Kinda of a strange takeaway from the OP.

And if you haven never sat and touched the screen in a Tesla, you are in for a surprise -- its not some POS windows ME looking icons touch 10X to work thing.

Think iPad Pro. Which if you havent touched a newer iPad I guess that might be lost too... but its instant. No lag.

I just wanted to present "another side of the coin". I have no doubt that the touchscreen is instantaneous. That's not my issue. My issue is that you have to LOOK at a touchscreen to find a "button". Old school buttons require a glance, if that to use. I think it's a weird strategy to create an interface that causes more distracted driving than the old method. You have to use the touchscreen to change the wiper speed and change the intermittent setting.

I agree. I rejected a Honda on my most recent car purchase because the heat/fan/... controls were all on the touchscreen. I think the volume control was as well.

---

--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.

Quote
Ammo
How many total miles does one battery last for? Does quick-charge shorten the battery life?

I believe that the current models offer a 200mile range. A 300mile option is planned for the future. Quick charging does diminish battery life somewhat, but Tesla actually controls the charge rate to mitigate that damage, plus they have active cooling for the battery, unlike the Nissan Leaf. If you are trying to drive 1000miles in a day and you try to quick charge 3-4 times along the route the car will lower the current rate to limit damage to the batteries with every charge cycle. Nissan does the same thing with the Leaf but they have to be even more stringent because of the lack of cooling. For whatever reason, Nissan refuses to protect their batteries, instead choosing to replace them after a few years under warranty.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
ztirffritz

Quote
Ammo
How many total miles does one battery last for? Does quick-charge shorten the battery life?

I believe that the current models offer a 200mile range. A 300mile option is planned for the future. Quick charging does diminish battery life somewhat, but Tesla actually controls the charge rate to mitigate that damage, plus they have active cooling for the battery, unlike the Nissan Leaf. If you are trying to drive 1000miles in a day and you try to quick charge 3-4 times along the route the car will lower the current rate to limit damage to the batteries with every charge cycle. Nissan does the same thing with the Leaf but they have to be even more stringent because of the lack of cooling. For whatever reason, Nissan refuses to protect their batteries, instead choosing to replace them after a few years under warranty.

ztirffritz is correct. Except-the Model S 100D is rated at 335 miles of range, the currently offered Model 3 is 310 miles range. Remember, since the Teslas have 250-300+ range, Supercharging is rarely needed. In my nearly 90,000 miles, I have Supercharged less than 50 times in over 3 years.
Lifetime battery degradation in the Tesla is almost negligible. Recent reports directly form owners has charted around 6-8% degradation at around 200,000 miles. At higher mileage the degradation curve flattens dramatically. 3-5% degradation happens in the first 50,000 miles, then the curve lessens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2018 01:21PM by Ken Sp..

Quote
Paul F.

Quote
ztirffritz

Quote
Gareth
They lost me at "touchscreen for everything". A guy got into an accident in his Model 3 and couldn't get to his insurance and registration since they were in the glove box, and the touchscreen was broken, thus the glove box was locked closed.

Solution? Software update to automatically unlock the glove box if an accident is detected.

I don't even care for the touchscreen radio I put in my car, I would hate to use a touchscreen for everything while driving. TBFTW! (Tactile buttons for the win!).

In reality, if I was actually in the market, I doubt the touchscreen would be a deal breaker, just a massive annoyance.

The plan is eventually to have Tesla fleet that rivals Uber in for hire travel. Most people only use their cars for about 5-10% of their waking hours. Eventually your car will drop you off at work and go earn money for you.

To be vandalized and destroyed on the first day, and insurance will fail to cover your roving car.
That scenario is still a good 30 years away, practically speaking.

Yeah, @#$%& that @#$%&.

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It is what it is.

Battery duration on the Tesla Model 3 I rode in yesterday was 300 miles. At least, it was reporting "285 miles remaining" on the display when we started out.

The touchscreen was large and very easy to navigate with peripheral vision. It didn't require staring at the screen. Plus, hit "auto pilot" which is a lever on the steering wheel, while you use the tablet controls... the car will keep lane, keep speed, keep following distance, etc.

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Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
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Eureka, CA

This Chevy Volt has >400k miles on it, with 155k EV miles. The owner has reported that he's experienced only a slight bit of battery degradation.

[www.voltstats.net]

Active battery cooling and charge management preserves the batteries significantly. GM found that keeping the batteries from fully depleting and fully charging preserved the batteries significantly. So in the Volt, and presumably in the Bolt, they only allow access to about 80% of the actually battery capacity. It doesn't charge over 85% capacity and doesn't go below 10% capacity, but on the charge display in the car it shows 0-100%. That buffer at top and bottom preserves the life of the battery. As the battery ages they can open up more of the battery to preserve the range. Eventually it will start to display perceivable loss of range but so far that has taken almost 10 years/ >150k miles. As the $/kwh plummets, the price of a replacement battery will drop significantly by the time it's due.

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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
ztirffritz

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Ammo
How many total miles does one battery last for? Does quick-charge shorten the battery life?

I believe that the current models offer a 200mile range. A 300mile option is planned for the future. Quick charging does diminish battery life somewhat, but Tesla actually controls the charge rate to mitigate that damage, plus they have active cooling for the battery, unlike the Nissan Leaf. If you are trying to drive 1000miles in a day and you try to quick charge 3-4 times along the route the car will lower the current rate to limit damage to the batteries with every charge cycle. Nissan does the same thing with the Leaf but they have to be even more stringent because of the lack of cooling. For whatever reason, Nissan refuses to protect their batteries, instead choosing to replace them after a few years under warranty.

Assuming Ammo’s question was about the OP Tesla Model 3, ztirffritz has it backwards. The currently shipping Model 3 has the “LR” (long range) 300+ mile battery. The “SR” (standard range) 200+ mile battery will not begin build/shipping for many months.

We reserved a Model 3 online just before Elon's live presentation announcement and received our invitation to order about two weeks ago just like DavidS did.

I have seen tons of them driving around here but hadn't been in one so this thread motivated me to stop by the Tesla store today and check the Model 3 out. Must say it seemed incredibly nice and I was duly impressed along the lines (without having ridden in one) of what Paul's comments were. Of course the showroom model was impeccable and may not represent a typical vehicle of the production line. Back seat was just a little small for my 6' frame but with a shorter person up front wouldn't be an issue. And no hump in the middle rear is nice. Door panels, hood and trunk all felt slightly on the lighter side but certainly in line with what I'd expect for the price.

Our reservation offered us the option to "hold our place" in line for the base version that would be available later this year so at this point I went that route and we can decide later this year as I don't really know if we are going to go through with the purchase or not but I think it would be a perfect car for our family and that the base model with maybe one or two options would suit us best.

My business is based at home and I don't drive much at all typically putting on only about 6-8k miles per year on my car. Road trips are typically camping or mountain biking and I take the truck for that. Wife has a company car (Ford Escape) at her disposal for work and personal use. We already have a 220 outlet in the garage. Have a hard time imagining I would be driving further than 200 miles in it to an area that doesn't have a supercharger.

The factor that remains to be sorted for us is the tax incentive and when that will run out. The Tesla rep said that the federal $7500 would be applicable for the quarter that the car delivered to us even if they production numbers were to hit their mark early in the quarter. And furthermore that the incentive would even apply for the following quarter but then the quarter after that the incentive would be cut in half. Looks like this link explains it pretty well: [www.fool.com]

Now I just need to find a way to drive one!

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Ken Sp.
<snip>
I live in an area where electricity is very expensive, and when I charge at night, it worked out to about 3.3¢ per mile traveled in expensive PG&E, I now have solar, so, once my solar array was paid for, I drive for free. (edited to correct my dictation on price per mile-Thanks Space-time

Ken...this is very helpful to have real world info! I haven't really sat down and crunched the numbers for cost per mile so this is handy. Do you know what number you used for your cost per kWh? We're down in Marin with PG&E as well and our tier 2 usage is running 28¢/kWh right now. Assuming your is the same or very similar

Looking at the maps, there seems to be a dearth of chargers here in Marin so I'm assuming that if we do order the 3, most of our charging will be here at the house.

I wish Tesla had an average size SUV - at least as far as cargo space goes. They don't offer anything big enough for my family.

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Most charging is done at home so don't worry too much about lack of chargers around you. You can also look on PlugShare.com to see if there are any chargers near where you want to go.

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Quote
Bo

Quote
Ken Sp.
<snip>
I live in an area where electricity is very expensive, and when I charge at night, it worked out to about 3.3¢ per mile traveled in expensive PG&E, I now have solar, so, once my solar array was paid for, I drive for free. (edited to correct my dictation on price per mile-Thanks Space-time

Ken...this is very helpful to have real world info! I haven't really sat down and crunched the numbers for cost per mile so this is handy. Do you know what number you used for your cost per kWh? We're down in Marin with PG&E as well and our tier 2 usage is running 28¢/kWh right now. Assuming your is the same or very similar

Looking at the maps, there seems to be a dearth of chargers here in Marin so I'm assuming that if we do order the 3, most of our charging will be here at the house.

You would likely want to ditch the tiered plan and look at a TOU plan. You will be looking at one in the future, even if you don't want to - everyone will be on TOU within the next 5-7 years. But what that can do is to push your charge costs down further, though you would be on the hook for higher priced peak use. However, if you manage your use and avoid use during peak hours (here it's 4PM-9PM year-round - though the price shoots up in the 'summer') you can still come out ahead. Add solar array and a battery and you can game the system even further.

We have a Model S, and after sitting in a new 3, we decided we wouldn't trade - but the 3 was still OK. And at about 1/2 -2/3 the price of a Model S, the 3 is not giving up too much. The 3 is going to be this century's Model T if Elon can ever get the bugs out of the assembly line and really start cranking them out. When they finally come out with the "$35,000" model 3 at almost unlimited quantities, it will be a game changer in the auto business. But you won't be able to get near a supercharger by then. LOL

Quote
M A V I C
I wish Tesla had an average size SUV - at least as far as cargo space goes. They don't offer anything big enough for my family.

Give ‘em a couple years... first priority is getting Model 3 production up to speed. Then they can start setting up lines for other newer products.

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Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

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Eureka, CA