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One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: June 30, 2018 06:02PM
just a thought...
Five to Sixty (plus) Ton critters generate a lot of "greenhouse gasses";
along with a myriad of biologically dangerous waste.
dunno smiley



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: saintyohann
Date: June 30, 2018 06:13PM
I'm sorry, are we talking about the Kardashians?
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 30, 2018 06:22PM
There was supposedly a lot more oxygen back then in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. If they could live long enough to grow big, they'd be practically comatose by that point.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2018 06:23PM by Sarcany.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: June 30, 2018 07:13PM
Insects got really huge when there was more oxygen in the atmosphere. 3-foot centipedes would probably startle me a bit.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 30, 2018 10:03PM
No, it's all the poop.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: max
Date: June 30, 2018 10:49PM
Quote
Sarcany
If they could live long enough to grow big, they'd be practically comatose by that point.


Are we still discussing Kardashians?....
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: saintyohann
Date: June 30, 2018 10:51PM
Quote
max
Are we still discussing Kardashians?....

thumbs up
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: July 01, 2018 02:37AM
Quote
MrNoBody
just a thought...
Five to Sixty (plus) Ton critters generate a lot of "greenhouse gasses";
along with a myriad of biologically dangerous waste.
dunno smiley

Which is why Jurassic Park was located on a private island leased from a South American country where such trivialities are of no concern.

Quote
Sarcany
There was supposedly a lot more oxygen back then in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. If they could live long enough to grow big, they'd be practically comatose by that point.

Yep, the dinosaurs would probably have to be fitted with oxygen tanks.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: July 01, 2018 07:42AM
I mean, besides the giant monsters that inevitably wind up eating lots of people...?
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: gabester
Date: July 01, 2018 08:18AM
Quote
Sarcany
There was supposedly a lot more oxygen back then in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. If they could live long enough to grow big, they'd be practically comatose by that point.

I think it harkens back even more to the Paleozoic, at one point there was so much oxygen in the atmosphere it lead to global wildfires due to lightning strikes.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 01, 2018 08:44AM
Quote
ka jowct
Insects got really huge when there was more oxygen in the atmosphere. 3-foot centipedes would probably startle me a bit.

Sorry to say we still have them, or close enough. They eat birds and rodents.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 01, 2018 03:43PM
Quote
Sarcany
There was supposedly a lot more oxygen back then in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. If they could live long enough to grow big, they'd be practically comatose by that point.

You are thinking of an earlier geological epoch, the high levels of atmospheric oxygen date to the Carboniferous and Permian periods. That was well before the period of the dinosaurs in the Triassic and Jurassic. Oxygen levels appear to actually have been lower during those two periods compared to modern times - [www.researchgate.net]. The Cretaceous was a period of increasing levels leading up to the present.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 03:44PM by JoeH.
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Freakin' dinosaurs.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 01, 2018 04:55PM
QED.






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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 01, 2018 06:54PM
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere).

Insects don't have lungs; they breathe through their skin and that is why they are size-limited by the amount of oxygen. It's not as efficient and when their mass gets too large, the proportion of surface area to body mass gets out of whack and they can't get enough oxygen.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 01, 2018 07:14PM
Quote
AllGold
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere)...

Depending upon the dinosaur/epoch.

Many of them would have evolved with about 10% richer O2 in the atmosphere.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 02, 2018 01:08AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
AllGold
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere)...

Depending upon the dinosaur/epoch.

Many of them would have evolved with about 10% richer O2 in the atmosphere.

No they wouldn't have. See my post and the linked article with charts above. They evolved during a period where the oxygen level was actually lower than now. You are thinking of the wrong period, it occurred about 100 million years or more earlier than the dinosaurs.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 02, 2018 06:54AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
AllGold
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere)...

Depending upon the dinosaur/epoch.

Many of them would have evolved with about 10% richer O2 in the atmosphere.

No they wouldn't have. See my post and the linked article with charts above. They evolved during a period where the oxygen level was actually lower than now. You are thinking of the wrong period, it occurred about 100 million years or more earlier than the dinosaurs.

They FIRST evolved during a period of low oxygen, but they exploded in population during a series of oxygen peaks, the last one during the Jurassic age at 31% O2, about 10% higher than today. The hollow bones that allowed them to store oxygen efficiently turned out to be useful for growing big when oxygen got ramped up. The dinosaurs that lacked hollow bones and grew big did so where they could spend their adult lives in the sea.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: m.paris
Date: July 02, 2018 08:24AM
Be careful here: there is a big difference between 10% higher and 10 percentage points higher. 10% higher than 20% is only 22%.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 02, 2018 09:37AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
AllGold
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere)...

Depending upon the dinosaur/epoch.

Many of them would have evolved with about 10% richer O2 in the atmosphere.

No they wouldn't have. See my post and the linked article with charts above. They evolved during a period where the oxygen level was actually lower than now. You are thinking of the wrong period, it occurred about 100 million years or more earlier than the dinosaurs.

They FIRST evolved during a period of low oxygen, but they exploded in population during a series of oxygen peaks, the last one during the Jurassic age at 31% O2, about 10% higher than today. The hollow bones that allowed them to store oxygen efficiently turned out to be useful for growing big when oxygen got ramped up. The dinosaurs that lacked hollow bones and grew big did so where they could spend their adult lives in the sea.

You have a source for that 31% figure in the Jurassic? The graph included in the article I linked to shows no such peak, nothing even close. There is a peak at around 31% in the Carboniferous/Permian, later when dinosaurs first show in the geologic record during the Triassic the oxygen level was down to about 15-16%. There is a peak in the Triassic of around 18-19%, then it dips down to the 15% range for most of the Jurassic and starts rising in the early Cretaceous about 100 million years ago. By the end of the Cretaceous the level had risen to about 20%, just 1% less than now.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 02, 2018 03:39PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
AllGold
Dinosaurs would have been fine in terms of oxygen because they have lungs (and the size of their lungs would have evolved to match the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere)...

Depending upon the dinosaur/epoch.

Many of them would have evolved with about 10% richer O2 in the atmosphere.

No they wouldn't have. See my post and the linked article with charts above. They evolved during a period where the oxygen level was actually lower than now. You are thinking of the wrong period, it occurred about 100 million years or more earlier than the dinosaurs.

They FIRST evolved during a period of low oxygen, but they exploded in population during a series of oxygen peaks, the last one during the Jurassic age at 31% O2, about 10% higher than today. The hollow bones that allowed them to store oxygen efficiently turned out to be useful for growing big when oxygen got ramped up. The dinosaurs that lacked hollow bones and grew big did so where they could spend their adult lives in the sea.

You have a source for that 31% figure in the Jurassic? The graph included in the article I linked to shows no such peak, nothing even close. There is a peak at around 31% in the Carboniferous/Permian, later when dinosaurs first show in the geologic record during the Triassic the oxygen level was down to about 15-16%. There is a peak in the Triassic of around 18-19%, then it dips down to the 15% range for most of the Jurassic and starts rising in the early Cretaceous about 100 million years ago. By the end of the Cretaceous the level had risen to about 20%, just 1% less than now.

I don't have a source for 31% in front of me. I learned the number in college, based on charcoal-testing.

As for your graph, I can't see it. That site wont load for me. but what I usually see with such things is that someone who likes smooth curves rounds things to the nearest 10 or 50 million years or so and it makes it look like the O2 level is descending from around 200 million years straight into the present day.

It did no such thing.

The level has jumped around a lot. Here's one from a quick Google search showing some peaks in the Jurassic that approach 30%. Yes, coming into the Jurassic, there's a terrific dip, but for most of the 56 million years of that era there was a lot of O2. And whenever it dropped, there was a massive die-off.



What I'm getting at is that (even if it wasn't as high as 31%) there's a compelling argument to be made that the giant megafauna from the Jurassic age were adapted to a high oxygen environment.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 02, 2018 04:12PM
Sarcany, what you learned in college about a 31% peak probably applied to the Carboniferous and Permian event. The source I am citing came out less than 10 years ago. In addition, an image from [www.skepticalcommunity.com] with an attribution that can not be confirmed might be a little suspect.

In any case, I uploaded the graph image and will post a link to it here:

[prnt.sc]

The translations of the abbreviations for the period is the following:

Quote

Pre-E, Pre-Cambrian; E, Cambrian; O, Ordovician; S, Silurian; D, Devonian; C, Carboniferous; P, Permian; Tr, Triassic; J, Jurassic; K, Cretaceous; T, Tertiary

(Capital 'E's substituted for the characters that the phorum software does not like in a post)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 04:14PM by JoeH.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 02, 2018 05:47PM
Quote
JoeH
In addition, an image from [www.skepticalcommunity.com] with an attribution that can not be confirmed might be a little suspect.

The Glasspool and Scott papers from 2006 thru 2015 from which the black line in the graph is derived are peer reviewed and popularly cited.



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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: July 02, 2018 06:02PM
This board has the best fights.
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Re: Freakin' dinosaurs.
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 02, 2018 06:29PM
Quote
RAMd®d
QED.

LOL!



It is what it is.
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Re: One Reason Why 'Jurassic Park' would never be allowed?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 02, 2018 07:10PM
It's been my understanding too over the years, based on what I've read and seen, that the highest oxygen levels occurred during the Carboniferous. The Jurassic and Triassic from my recall didn't have anything special regarding oxygen levels (such that it's usually not mentioned).
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