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'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 17, 2018 04:49PM
For all of the space buffs here, an interesting article.

[www.businessinsider.com]

This was the writing on the wall once SpaceX and Blue Horizon demonstrated reusable rockets - something NASA said was impossible or showed impractical (space shuttle).
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 17, 2018 05:15PM
But.... those are American companies ? And NASA never “built their own spacecraft “... it was always built by companies....

Real reality... SpaceX has proven that the “old way” of developing spacecraft is dead. And that is good.
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: November 17, 2018 06:19PM
Read that earlier this afternoon.

SLS, at this point, after ten BILLION dollars of development, needs to stick around JUST long enough for there to be some other viable heavy lift launcher - then get taken out back and shot.

SLS will cost more than one BILLION dollars per flight (excluding the cargo!), whereas current projections for BFR is under 100 million per flight (actually, the goal is for substantially less, but 100 Million leaves room for growth of costs).

SLS is a pork-filled fiasco, but a necessary one UNTIL there is another option actually FLYING.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: November 17, 2018 07:56PM
Just like everything else, when the government is footing the bill it costs 100x more than it should.



C(-)ris
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Racer X
Date: November 17, 2018 08:28PM
because designing and building a sellable product is never the governments priority.
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: November 17, 2018 08:33PM
Quote
Racer X
because designing and building a sellable product is never the governments priority.

It's not nicknamed the "Senate Launch System" for nothin'.... Everybody's district had to get a piece of the action. Everybody's cousin had to get a little taste.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Don C
Date: November 18, 2018 12:55AM
I had not heard about $1Billion per launch before, but I don't follow these things all that closely so I could easily have missed it. So I don't know why SLS is so terribly bad. What is wrong with it (obviously cost is something of an issue)? And what should replace it?
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 18, 2018 02:44AM
"What's wrong with NASA ?"
"The Germans all retired."
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: davemchine
Date: November 18, 2018 11:12AM
To me it has been a huge embarrassment that we can no longer launch a person into space and we must rely on other countries to do that. I am so grateful that SpaceX will most likely return our dignity.



Ukulele music I couldn't find anywhere else.
[colquhoun.info]
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Racer X
Date: November 18, 2018 01:07PM
Quote
cbelt3
"What's wrong with NASA ?"
"The Germans all retired."

smiley-laughing001
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: November 18, 2018 02:16PM
Quote
Don C
I had not heard about $1Billion per launch before, but I don't follow these things all that closely so I could easily have missed it. So I don't know why SLS is so terribly bad. What is wrong with it (obviously cost is something of an issue)? And what should replace it?

SLS was "pork barrel" politics at it's very worst from the get-go. It was designed not to fulfill the mission of taking "X" cargo to "Y" orbit, but to be produced in "X" Congressman's, and "Y" Senators districts. Most of its component technologies were chosen politically, not out of engineering necessity.

SLS is also more than five BILLION over-budget, and more than 5 years late - with at least two years more before the first version (the least capable of what was to be a "family" of launchers) is ready.

Right now, as despicable as I find SLS for these reasons, I agree the program MUST continue, until a replacement "heavy lift" rocket is operational.

Currently, there are two launchers that are being developed by two private companies that are in the same capability class as SLS - The "BFR" ("Big Falcon Rocket") by SpaceX, and the New Glenn by Blue Origin. If either, or both, become operational, at anywhere close to their advertised capability, and advertised "retail price" for a launch, then SLS becomes not only redundant, but even more outrageously expensive not only in development, but in per-mission costs.

SLS HAS to continue UNTIL another launcher is actually flying - we put our hopes on SLS to be flying 3-4 YEARS ago, and if we cancel SLS and BFR or New Glenn don't appear on schedule, then we're at least another DECADE from an operational "heavy lift" launcher the way NASA and the Congress and Senate do "business". We can't afford to scrap SLS, as horrific a money waste that it is, until something else flies.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 18, 2018 08:31PM
We could just use an old 1960’s Saturn V.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: 'A US Space Agency without an American Spaceship?'
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: November 18, 2018 10:29PM
Quote
Speedy
We could just use an old 1960’s Saturn V.

For about double what we've spent on SLS so far to recreate whole industries that no longer exist to build a Saturn V... sure.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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