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I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Buck
Date: February 20, 2019 10:25AM
Amazing but I hadn't heard it. All I knew was that CDMA is better, but the rest of the world has GSM.
Just bought 2 iPhones XR under the but one get one deal. No trade in value for the 5S
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 20, 2019 10:35AM
Really?

How quickly is this going to happen?

I don't like that I can't use data while on a call with CDMA.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: 3d
Date: February 20, 2019 10:37AM
Went to the VZW store to sort something out on an account and the salesperson noticed my mom's flip phone will no longer work next year. Sucks because I just bought it for her a year ago. Paid full retail. Fokkers.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: February 20, 2019 10:46AM
Quote
Buck
Amazing but I hadn't heard it. All I knew was that CDMA is better, but the rest of the world has GSM.
Just bought 2 iPhones XR under the but one get one deal. No trade in value for the 5S

CDMA is not better. It's old and clunky and power-hungry and it's very hard to switch between cellular providers with a CDMA phone.

There's some confusion between GSM as it was over a decade ago and GSM as it's implemented today. Modern GSM is also called WCDMA. It provides the best of both and is an open standard which means that providers aren't locked into expensive licensing deals with Qualcomm.

They're both mainly used as a fallback for data and text messages while LTE is used for primary voice and high-speed data transmissions.

If you're a cellular provider, you want everything to be LTE. With GSM and CDMA deprecated, you go with the cheaper and less power-hungry option of GSM/WCDMA.



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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Golfer
Date: February 20, 2019 11:07AM
Out in rural Iowa CDMA is better than GSM, has a much longer range. AT&T and other GSM carriers don't have service on our area, it's all CDMA only. US Cellular dominates in our area.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Buck
Date: February 20, 2019 11:31AM
January 1st, 2020
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 20, 2019 12:20PM
.....I.....Fall....to....Pieces.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: timg
Date: February 20, 2019 12:48PM
Give it a year or two and it won't matter ... we'll all be on a 5G device!!



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: numbered
Date: February 20, 2019 12:58PM
Quote
Sarcany
CDMA is not better. It's old and clunky and power-hungry and it's very hard to switch between cellular providers with a CDMA phone.

There were religious wars about which was better. But this was about 2G. So think Cingular and Airtouch and GTE. Old and power hungry indeed.

ATT already killed off its 2G GSM, and the GSM consortium relabelled its 3G technologies as GSM.)

And CDMA was a more efficient use of spectrum which is why the concepts were implemented in WCDMA, now labelled LTE. But I am not trying to provoke a dispute =)

The carriers are moving everything to LTE to repurpose spectrum. ATT went first, but VZW is now moving more aggressively in that it is killing 2G CDMA and 3G EVDO. There are some howls about killing 2G service, particularly in rural areas. (800Mhz CDMA allowed fewer cell sites, so was quite common for mom and pop cell companies in rural areas.)

In the context of iPhones, the 5 was the first LTE (4G) phone, though some of the GSM 3G technologies will still operate a while longer on ATT.

Here is an explainer I found which covers the carrier positions.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: davester
Date: February 20, 2019 01:25PM
Coverage all went to @#$%& when the switch was made from analog to digital. It's never recovered, especially in rural areas. These days you can drive most of the way across Nevada without seeing a bar. In the olden days you could often pick up an analog signal out in the middle of nowhere.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 01:27PM by davester.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Carm
Date: February 20, 2019 01:53PM
IIRC With regards to iPhones, starting with iPhone 6S Verizon phones/Sprint phones (unlocked) are capable of both GSM and CDMA networks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 01:53PM by Carm.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: numbered
Date: February 20, 2019 01:56PM
Quote
Davester
Coverage all went to @#$%& when the switch was made from analog to digital.

This is so true. I remember keeping a bag phone for travel in Montana well after the start of 3G.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 20, 2019 01:56PM
Quote
Golfer
Out in rural Iowa CDMA is better than GSM, has a much longer range. AT&T and other GSM carriers don't have service on our area, it's all CDMA only. US Cellular dominates in our area.

Rural is probably the only use case for CDMA at this point. But any advantage CDMA has can be covered by extra towers.



C(-)ris
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 20, 2019 02:20PM
....well, son of a switch......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: 3d
Date: February 20, 2019 02:39PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Golfer
Out in rural Iowa CDMA is better than GSM, has a much longer range. AT&T and other GSM carriers don't have service on our area, it's all CDMA only. US Cellular dominates in our area.

Rural is probably the only use case for CDMA at this point. But any advantage CDMA has can be covered by extra towers.

The U.S. is quite vast.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Golfer
Date: February 20, 2019 02:42PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Golfer
Out in rural Iowa CDMA is better than GSM, has a much longer range. AT&T and other GSM carriers don't have service on our area, it's all CDMA only. US Cellular dominates in our area.

Rural is probably the only use case for CDMA at this point. But any advantage CDMA has can be covered by extra towers.

It can be, but with the smaller user base nobody wants to invest in installing the towers. This is true of the majority of the Great Plains and the Midwest. Unless you live in a metro area or along an interstate your options are very limited.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 20, 2019 03:47PM
I hope this results in an upgrade of some kind. Our rural town of ~4000 people is Verizon Land. If you don't have Verizon service you can't use a cellphone of any kind.

And I don't know how many or where the towers are around here but it's less than stellar. We have LTE but it's seldom strong. And of course if it slips down to 3G service it's unusable for data, even "slow" data.

It's almost as if without competition they don't have incentive to improve the network. Ha, ha.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: 3d
Date: February 21, 2019 04:52AM
Quote
deckeda
I hope this results in an upgrade of some kind. Our rural town of ~4000 people is Verizon Land. If you don't have Verizon service you can't use a cellphone of any kind.

I'm curious. In these rural towns with little to know cell service. Are the kids/young adults still glued to their cell phones tapping away at the screen? Walking <tap tap tap> waiting for the light <tap tap tap> Place an order <tap tap tap> standing on escalator <tap tap tap> etc.

Here in NYC and it's surrounding suburbs where cell phone service is strong it's an epidemic. There are people staring at their cell phone watching movies with headphones on while walking down the street. Zombie walkers that just shuffle along the street with their head down staring at a phone.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 21, 2019 06:26AM
....yup....it is like zombies.....on the elevators.....everyone looks at their screens....no one look around anymore......on trains when you look around.....everyone is just staring at screens.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 21, 2019 09:53AM
I'll let you guys know, if we ever get an elevator.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Winston
Date: February 21, 2019 08:14PM
Quote
davester
Coverage all went to @#$%& when the switch was made from analog to digital. It's never recovered, especially in rural areas. These days you can drive most of the way across Nevada without seeing a bar. In the olden days you could often pick up an analog signal out in the middle of nowhere.

And cars had exterior antennas, and phones using the exterior antennas could operate at a full 3 watts. Modern cellphones probably operate on milliwatts. No wonder there's a difference in the coverage distance.

I'm still surprised that at least some mobile phone manufacturers are not offering car antenna kits. Maybe all the multiple antenna systems (MIMO) make it too complicated to use an external antenna, not to mention the "wasted space" from an antenna connector.

Phones are optimized for urban environments with several nearby cell towers, and a decent amount of multipath interference. Because that's where most of the people are.


Good luck.

- Winston



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Be seeing you.
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 21, 2019 09:46PM
.....G(i)SM......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: GeneL
Date: March 11, 2019 04:48AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Really?

How quickly is this going to happen?

I don't like that I can't use data while on a call with CDMA.

I don't get that???
I can look up on google or do other searches or phone uses (calendar, contacts or Maps) while on my Verizon Note CDMA phone.
So what do you mean?



gl @ Dana Point, CA
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Re: I wasn't paying attention - Verizon going all GSM
Posted by: Winston
Date: March 11, 2019 09:26AM
Quote
GeneL
Quote
Lux Interior
Really?

How quickly is this going to happen?

I don't like that I can't use data while on a call with CDMA.

I don't get that???
I can look up on google or do other searches or phone uses (calendar, contacts or Maps) while on my Verizon Note CDMA phone.
So what do you mean?

Not being able to use data when on a call only applies when a Verizon phone is on 3G. Not when on LTE.

LTE is part of the GSM standard, but Verizon's 3G, which uses CDMA, is not. Older versions of GSM used TDMA.

Adding confusion, LTE uses a form of CDMA (WCDMA) as Sarcany noted, but no one calls LTE "CDMA". LTE is not going away, just Verizon's 3G CDMA.


Good luck.

- Winston



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Be seeing you.
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