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NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: Beam Me Up Scotty
Date: December 17, 2019 10:53AM
IMHO, this is a big decision by the Supreme Court not to review the case. This really ties the local law enforcement hands. I bounce between LA and the PNW and see the homeless situation on a daily/weekly basis. I'm curious as to what you folks are thinking.

[www.npr.org]

"The Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal in a case originating from Boise, Idaho, that would have made it a crime to camp and sleep in public spaces."

D & C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2019 11:12AM by Dazed & Confused.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 17, 2019 11:01AM
From the article, just to clarify the situation:

"In a decision last year, the court said it was "cruel and unusual punishment" to enforce rules that stop homeless people from camping in public places when they have no place else to go. That means states across the 9th Circuit can no longer enforce similar statutes if they don't have enough shelter beds for homeless people sleeping outside."

My take: You can't just order the homeless to "go away" and then mark the problem solved. Life does not work like that.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 17, 2019 12:12PM
There's usually somewhere better to go. Just no way that you can live exactly the way you want to live. In my experience, there are different levels of "living on the street." Lots of the homeless around where I live won't go into shelters unless it's really cold. Cities like San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose and Los Angeles are spending untold millions in homeless services. They are trying to implement a wraparound solution to each individual's circumstance. But it's really difficult to fix the broken. They don't have to cooperate or participate. It's a lot easier to help a person that just happens to be down on their luck, need some transitional housing and then a line on permanent housing.

In transitional housing, you can't get high, you can't drink and you can't be drunk or high. They'd rather be in a tent. NOW, you can basically FORCE them into housing, which in turn means, forcing them into rehabilitation (which you could NEVER do before).

It'll be interesting to see how they manage it.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 17, 2019 01:47PM
Unfortunately the term "homeless" is imprecise and consequently, in my opinion, leads to ill formulated attempts at "solutions".

There are many, many different life circumstances which can lead to a person being "homeless", and the cure, or at minimum palliative efforts, for each is different; often dramatically different. It's akin to categorizing all medical conditions as just "sickness" and treating them all with the same medicine.

There is no single solution for all medical conditions, nor is there any single solution for the imprecise label "homelessness".
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 17, 2019 01:51PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Unfortunately the term "homeless" is imprecise and consequently, in my opinion, leads to ill formulated attempts at "solutions".

There are many, many different life circumstances which can lead to a person being "homeless", and the cure, or at minimum palliative efforts, for each is different; often dramatically different. It's akin to categorizing all medical conditions as just "sickness" and treating them all with the same medicine.

There is no single solution for all medical conditions, nor is there any single solution for the imprecise label "homelessness".

You couldn't be more right. In my 22 years in the Bay, the saddest thing I experience is seeing new people on the street, fiending and begging for dope money who over a span of a couple years destroy their minds with heavier and heavier using. It's like a pipeline to destitution.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Date: December 17, 2019 02:42PM
Don't forget the mentally challenged individuals, from my experiences a large portion are in this category. With no one monitoring their meds they can easily not take any and decide to self medicate with alcohol and/or drugs.

If things get worse, what are the odds of Hoovervilles popping up? Yes, there are small tent cities but I'm referring to small towns of homeless people daring law enforcement to remove them.

D & C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2019 02:44PM by Dazed & Confused (Mobile).
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: davester
Date: December 17, 2019 02:43PM
I think the court made the right decision. If a person has nowhere to go, you can't make it illegal for them to lie down or fall asleep wherever they happen to be. My understanding is that if they are offered reasonable accommodation and refuse it then a law could make it illegal for them to camp in a public space. The hard part would then be walking the fine line regarding what reasonable accommodation is.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 17, 2019 03:05PM
It's got to be multiple services. As mentioned: mental issues, drug abuse, and people that are just looking for a place to survive. They all need very different resources.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: RgrF
Date: December 17, 2019 03:42PM
The court was addressing the problem inherent with using police powers to resolve social problems. Shunting the homeless into jail and the court system relieves urban leaders of having to wrestle with real solutions and approaches to a seemingly intractable problem.

I'm old enough to have grown up in a society with virtually no homeless of course it was a society with a vibrant middle class, a 90+ % top income tax bracket and a society with a political 'fairness doctrine' applied to public political discourse.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 17, 2019 04:56PM
Good.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: Wags
Date: December 17, 2019 07:05PM
Here in Portland they report that something like 80% of police calls are related to homelessness in some way. Unfettered capitalism is showing its stained and tattered underwear. However, I do meet a lot of young people that are pretty much rejecting rampant consumerism. Hope its not too late.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 17, 2019 07:13PM
Quote
Wags
Here in Portland they report that something like 80% of police calls are related to homelessness in some way. Unfettered capitalism is showing its stained and tattered underwear. However, I do meet a lot of young people that are pretty much rejecting rampant consumerism. Hope its not too late.

Tell 'em to vote.
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: Beam Me Up Scotty
Date: December 18, 2019 09:06AM
And with no real solutions to the problem, it's just getting worse:

[www.msn.com]

"Homeless populations are surging in the West — even as federal spending rises"

[www.msn.com]

"Beneath Las Vegas' Glittering Strip, Homeless People Live In Storm Tunnels"

D & C
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Re: NPR: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case On Ban Against Homeless Sleeping In Public Spaces
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 18, 2019 12:32PM
Quote
Dazed & Confused
And with no real solutions to the problem, it's just getting worse:

[www.msn.com]

"Homeless populations are surging in the West — even as federal spending rises"

[www.msn.com]

"Beneath Las Vegas' Glittering Strip, Homeless People Live In Storm Tunnels"

D & C

No real willingness to implement a solution. Too busy trying not to step on too many toes + trying too hard to not look like bad guys. So all we get are half-baked attempts to get a handle on it. Homelessness isn't going to go away. Ever. Most people's problems however, can be addressed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2019 12:33PM by vision63.
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