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Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: karsen
Date: February 04, 2007 09:17PM
Rex Grossman.

The Colts couldn't have done it without him. Whether it was him running 15 yards backwards before taking a sack or throwing half-strength passes into the waiting arms of defenders Rex Grossman did it all for the Colts.

Congratulations Rex, you win my MVP award!

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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: pRON aHOLIC
Date: February 04, 2007 09:21PM
Looks like "Train Rex" showed up tonight



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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 04, 2007 09:38PM
Nope.

The MVP is the Bears non-defense.

The Colts can't stop the run?

Pshaw. They gave up one big one.

The Bears, who bragged on their defense, are the ones who could not stop the run. They sucked all night long. Key run after key run after key run... They could not stop the Colts.

Grossman didn't get on the field enough to be the goat.





Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: karsen
Date: February 04, 2007 09:49PM
Through the game and into the 4th quarter Rex had thrown for like 117 total yards and had thrown for 94 INT return yards. Factor in all his running backwards and he lead the Bears to negative offense. It's hard to be dominant on D when the Grossman-led offense had a total of 4 first downs with 8 minutes left in the game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2007 09:50PM by karsen.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Tommie Milwaukee
Date: February 04, 2007 09:54PM
The Bears defense (as well as Urlacher) has been overrated all year. They don't come close to the'85 Bears team.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 04, 2007 10:06PM
Gorssman wasn't SUPPOSED to lead the offense. If it came to THAT, everyone agreed the Bears would lose.

Grossman was 20 for 28 (71%), 1 TD and 2 Ints.
Manning was 25 for 38 (66%), 1 TD 1 Int.

Grossman did not lose the game for the Bears.

The Colts had 42 rushes for 191 yards. THAT is what lost the game for the Bears.

Oh... BTW, you can have David Carr if you want.





Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2007 10:07PM by sscutchen.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: February 04, 2007 10:15PM
Ron Rivera (sp) the Bears defensive coordinator on WGN a few minutes ago -

"we didn't take advantage of the opportunities ... "



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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 04, 2007 10:35PM
you guys doggin the Bears don't know dingk.

If you look at the times of posession you will realize that the Bears d executed a miracle in keeping the score down in that game...they kept the offense in the game for almost the entire game.

the Bears D was on the field constantly and if you have ever gotten off your couch and actually were involved in a sport, you would realize that the Bears d was getting tired and still keeping the score down. You think these guys don't get winded? They were digging deep in this game.

over rated defense? This entire year was all about the defense...they won games for the Bears on almost every outing...you guys, you know who you are...dont know @#$%& about what you are talking about.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 04, 2007 10:43PM
When the Bears defense could not get the Colts offense off the field, Chicago was doomed.

The Colts had more first downs rushing than they did passing. They kicked the Bears defense around all night. Chicago was lucky that the score was not worse.

The Chicago offense was never going to win a shootout.

It was not the Chicago offense that was supposed to protect the defense from getting tired. It was the Chicago defense that was supposed to get their own self off the field.

If the Colts were allowed to keep the ball and march down the field, they were going to win.





Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Tommie Milwaukee
Date: February 04, 2007 10:52PM
Quote
Kraniac
you guys doggin the Bears don't know dingk.

Yeah, I do know dingk. And if you think this Bear defense deserves a mention with the '85 Bears defense, you are an idiot!
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: karsen
Date: February 04, 2007 11:10PM
I didn't hear anyone here compare this defense to the '85 team.

The fact is the Bears offense did NOT produce. The Bears offense went 3 and out over and over and over again which of course means the defense will be out there all night. If the offense been able to move the ball even a little bit the defense could have had some time to rest.

If only they had started Griese.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: February 04, 2007 11:15PM
I think what you're forgetting is the whole time the Bears defense is on the field, the Colts defense is resting. So IT IS the Bears defense fault for keeping the Colts defense so rested and their own offense sitting in the rain, waiting.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 04, 2007 11:24PM
Tommy...did I say that? Really, get a life and write something actually has a base in fact. If I thought the Bears defense compared to the Buddy's defense of the 85 team, I would have said so, ding-a-ling. See, I was right..you don't know dingk.

Teams like the 85 Bears are history because of the effective parity structures that the NFL has implemented.

SScutchen...illuminate me with something that is true. The reason that the Colts were on field so much was because the Bear offense was invisible...3 and outs all through the game. Chicago wasn't lucky that the score was worse...the defense had a lot to do with that fact. period. Sure, the Colts ran the ball effectively; of course they did because the Bears had to balance their concept with the very real threat of a quarterback who can throw a football. that's why they kept dumping the ball under the secondary, good game plan and obvious as to why they did it, spread the defense and then you can run and throw.

Bottom line, they kept the Bears within reach for the important, bulk of the game. They forced a few filed goals in the red zone and that was important..the Bears offense never took advantage of that. With a decent quarterback the passing game would have opened the field up for the Bears.

Grossman has no clue how to work the pocket.. though, he actually rolled one time in this game, amazing. The guy looked like a complete amateur tonight.

The Bears defense did exactly what they needed to do in this predicament..keep it reachable, and they did. considering the posession times like this, especially against a team with an actual quarterback, one who can use the pocket, throw on the run, etc...usually lead to much bigger scores. Now, tell me why we lost...here's the answer, 3 and out, give the ball back to the Colts and put a winded defense back on the field after about 1.5 minutes, over and over.

Easy to sit there and say the D sucks when you aren't gasping for air. You can't put a physical load like that on a defense.

Karsen has it right, exactly..Bluesubaru...lol, im not sure what the hell you are talking about.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2007 11:34PM by Kraniac.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: February 04, 2007 11:32PM
Simple. Bears D = playing lots = Colts D resting lots.

Maybe the Bears O wasn't sucking, but it was the Colts D that was good for the limited load it had to haul, eh? Quit sulking.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 04, 2007 11:40PM
lol

The Colts played well and won with a solid game plan.

I wish you guys would actually read for meaning...there is no sign of sulk here, my dear...what I am doing is trying to explain to all the doggers that they are wrong and that their dogging is completely void of substance. To say that the Bears d sucked and is "overrated", especially after a year of defensive clinics, is a sure sign that they are speaking from their collective necks.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 04, 2007 11:44PM
Quote
Kraniac
SScutchen...illuminate me with something that is true. The reason that the Colts were on field so much was because the Bear offense was invisible...3 and outs all through the game.

Quote
Kraniac
Easy to sit there and say the D sucks when you aren't gasping for air. You can't put a physical load like that on a defense.

You have this backwards.

Let's go to the instant replay.

In their second drive of the game, when they should not have been tired regardless of the Bears offensive effort, the Bear defense gave up a 9 play 80 yard drive for a TD.

To start the second half, when they should not have been tired regardless of the Bears offensive effort, the Bear defense gave up a 13 play 56 yard scoring drive followed by a 6 play 62 yard scoring drive.

In the first of these two scoring drive, the Colts had 2nd and 8 on the 12 and they jumped on offense. Their penalty allowed Chicago to hold them to a FG.

In the second of these two scoring drives, Manning threw two incompletions from the 10, and then Rhodes gains 8. Indy abandons their successful running game and plays the price.

Quote
Kraniac
The Bears defense did exactly what they needed to do in this predicament..keep it reachable, and they did.

If the Bears defense had played exactly like that before this, they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Quote
Kraniac
Now, tell me why we lost...here's the answer, 3 and out, give the ball back to the Colts and put a winded defense back on the field after about 1.5 minutes, over and over.

That was the Indy defense. Again. You keep talking as if it was on the Bears offense to save their defense in this game. I have no idea where you get that. We had two weeks of non-stop talking heads on the TV and radio, and everyone. Every one. said that it was the Bears defense that had to lead. That Grossman, in his first year as a starter for the season, could not be expected to outgun the Colts. If the Bears won, it was going to be by 17-14 or something like that.

Actually, returning to the title of this thread, I thought it was unfair to name Manning as the MVP. The MVP was Rhodes, Addai and the Colts run blocking. They just stuffed it up the Bears ass play after play after play. The Bears NEVER could stop them from running the ball.





Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: February 04, 2007 11:55PM
I agree. As soon as the game was over I said it should have gone to Rhodes.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 05, 2007 12:05AM
Yeah, break it down. the Bears defense has had it's lapses and the Bears offense has stepped in, out of nowhere sometimes.

Yes, you are correct, the Colts played well on both sides of the ball. their D was excellent. However, it is very difficult to say that with a straight face when they were protecting against a non-existant offense. The Bear went for almost a half an hour without a first down in the first quarter..you can call it what you want ..good colts defense...fine, against a horrible bear's offense. and that includes the offensive line. Which has never been regarded as a great offensive line. Grossman's jittery performance all year long could be attributed to having shaky protection for many games.

I don't take issue with the Colts good play. I don't take issue with blaming our lack of offense. I take issue with people who dog the Bears defensive unit by stretching the facts and misinterpreting the sequences... and who don't take into account the athletic pressures that they were under throughout the game. they forced the Colts to settle for three field goals..important in keeping this score down.

The Bears D gave the Bears O a chance and the Bears O (colts d? doubt it) blew it, plain and simple.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: karsen
Date: February 05, 2007 12:23AM
Hey, no sour grapes here, I'm not a fan of either team. I'm just calling it as I see it.

The Colts D played incredible throughout the playoffs. Kudos to them.

Grossman played like crapola. Credit the Colts D if you'd like but anyone who has seen ole Rex play this year would know it's par for the course. The guy gets confused and flustered and I honestly can't see how he starts over Greise who manages the game well and throws with far more accuracy. Big mistake on Lovie's part in my opinion.

You can try and blame the Bears D all you want but here's the simple fact. The Bears O was horrendous. Here's the proof: [www.superbowl.com]



Please notice there is only ONE drive the entire first half resulting in a first down. That means the Bears D was on the field early and often. Their second first down of the game came midway into the THIRD quarter!

Also notice their longest drive in terms of possesion was a measly 2:22 seconds long. And that drive came midway into the FOURTH quarter!

Punt, fumble, touchdown, fumble, punt, punt, punt, fumble, punt, field goal, interception, interception, turnover on downs. Yeah, it's the defense's fault–whatever!

All joking about Rex deserving the MVP aside, I had Peyton Manning ranked 4th as the MVP. Rhodes, Addai, Colts D, and then Manning where my choices. No way Manning deserved it when his first 4 passes should have been intercepted.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 05, 2007 12:48AM
Yeah, like I said before...almost a half an hour, clock time, without a first down.

The point is that the Colts defense was playing against a castrated offense that has been carried by a tough defense all year long.

There is no way to accurately say that it was the Colts D that kept the Bears D on the field, it reeks. It was clearly the Bears lack of ANY offense that the Colts D fed off of, and Im not just talking about Grossman. Their offensive line is not anything to call your Dad about, never has been.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 05, 2007 12:51AM
Quote
kraniac
I take issue with people who dog the Bears defensive unit by stretching the facts and misinterpreting the sequences... and who don't take into account the athletic pressures that they were under throughout the game.

Well, that's preciely why i've been clear about quoting the actual facts of the game.

The Chicago offense was not a good offense. But Grossman gets too much blame. The Bears had to run the ball to win. And the defense had to hold Indy down. The Chicago defense had to get Indy off the field, and they didn't do that even when they were not tired. The Chicago defense did not get run over (literally) because they were tired. They got beat when they were fresh, at the start of each half.

Quote
karsen
Please notice there is only ONE drive the entire first half resulting in a first down.

You are looking at a drive chart and not a play chart. This is leading you to misinterpretations. You are also assuming that every drive stopped because of Grossman, not because of other players, like those responsible for the running game, or by the coaching decisions that were trying to run against Indy.

Here is a more complete description of Chicago's first ten drives.

Chicago's first drive went 3 and out.

Their second drive had a first down and they scored a TD in 4 plays.

Their third drive, Grossman passed for 13 for a first down. Then, Bensen fumbled on the next first down. Not Grossman's fault.

In the fourth drive, the Bears ran the ball on first and third for 4 yards each time. Grossman threw an incompletion on 2nd and 6.

In their fifth drive, Chicago again tried to run on Indy. Four yards in two plays. Grossman completed the pass on third, but the Colts stopped Davis short.

In the sixth drive, Grossman was 2 for 2, but the Colts stopped a rush by Jones a yard short of a first on third down.

In the seventh drive, Grossman fumbled on first down.

In the eighth drive, Grossman passed for a first on first down. On the next first down, he again completed a pass, for nine yards. Chicago chose to pass on 2nd and 1, and Grossman was sacked, going from 2nd and 1 to 3rd and 12.

In the ninth drive, Jones rushed twice for a first down. Chicago kicked a FG.

In the tenth drive, Chicago had a holding penalty on a long play on 1st down, to go to 1st and 20. Grossman converted the 1st and 20 to a 1st down, but then threw the interception that was returned for a TD.








Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 05, 2007 01:39AM
When I say offense, I mean the entire offense, not just Grossman. The Bears offensive line had been shaky for most of the year. Their running game took a long time to develop because of this. They came and went...tonight, the Bears offensive line was clueless. They haven't controlled a pass rush in a consistent way all year.

Like you said, offense is also game plan, play calling..Ron Turner is his name and he has no imagination. Where are the draw plays? Screens? Meat and potato stuff that is nowhere to be found this season.

All year long it's been the same unimaginative play set and it doesn't take much for a good team to prepare and zone in on this stuff.

Facts and stats don't always tell the story and you are misinterpreting them in this case, S. The Bears d has been great all year and a lesser defense, in this game, would have given up two more touchdowns and turned this game into a typical Super Bowl lopsided, snoozefest.

The Colts defensive success in this game can't be measured, or, held up to a mark accurately against this Bears' offense, no way.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: February 05, 2007 07:09AM
Quote
Kraniac
When I say offense, I mean the entire offense, not just Grossman.

This I can agree with. The Bears offense was a known weak point. Just as Indy's defense was. The prognostication was Strong Offense v. Strong Defense and Weak Offense v. Weak Defense in the same game.

From my perspective, Indy won both of those battles convincingly.

Why I took issue in this thread was that the Original Poster did not join your view of shared blame. He put it all on Rex Grossman.

Quote
karsen

Super Bowl MVP Should Be...

Rex Grossman.

The Colts couldn't have done it without him. Whether it was him running 15 yards backwards before taking a sack or throwing half-strength passes into the waiting arms of defenders Rex Grossman did it all for the Colts.

Congratulations Rex, you win my MVP award!

I see that as both wrong and unfair.





Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: karsen
Date: February 05, 2007 09:24AM
Yes, the blame is always shared as football is a team game. My point is Grossman was the MVP of ineffectiveness and incompetence. The QB is supposed to be the leader on the field for the offense. If he can't lead with his arm he needs to lead with smart play. Even bad QBs need to manage the game, which Rex simply did not.

You say they knew going in that Rex wasn't going to win it for them, I agree with that. However for the Bears to win Rex needed to not lose it for them, ala Trent Dilfer's performance for the Super Bowl Champion Ravens.

Rex had 2 interceptions, both of which there was no excuse for. There was over 90 yards in Interception returns alone. Rex also had 2 fumbles. That's 4 turnovers that he is responsible for in the bigest game of the season. If it's not mostly Rex's fault please tell me who was more responsible. I didn't see anyone else turning the ball over 4 times.

You simply can NOT give the Colts offense four turnovers to work with and expect to have your defense pitch a shut out. I don't care if it was the 85 Bears out there, they wouldn't have faired much better in that situation.

You can try to blame the running game but Thomas Jones played well. He had over 100 yards rushing and no turnovers. Cedric Benson was hurt early on and never returned.

One quote the announcers said was the Bears offensive coordinator saying he was going to use a blocking fullback and run the ball over and over even if it doesn't work. He had confidence they'd wear the Colts D down and it would work eventually. Not good.
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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: February 05, 2007 10:45AM
I think the Colts should give Grossman the Neil O'Donnell Distinguished Player Award, but what do I know.

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Re: Super Bowl MVP Should Be...
Posted by: pixelzombie
Date: February 06, 2007 08:45AM
Quote
karsen
Yes, the blame is always shared as football is a team game.


You simply can NOT give the Colts offense four turnovers to work with and expect to have your defense pitch a shut out. I don't care if it was the 85 Bears out there, they wouldn't have faired much better in that situation.

.

yes indeed it was a team loss as well as bad coaching but keep in mind this is Rex's first full season and is basically a rookie.....how long has manning been knocking at the door?..............despite the lopsided stats the Bears were only down by 5 points at the beginning of the 4th quarter...Manning is far too smart a qb to shutout and when it's all said and done he will be a hall of famer with quite a few records to his name...
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