Hi everyone,

I've been having some trouble this morning with Zoom (for those of you who use it) ... I'd started using it at home beginning this past Monday, because my institution is now closed and we're all working from home.

Monday and yesterday, it was working basically fine -- I was getting infrequent "Connection Unstable" messages. Starting this morning, now in addition to much more frequent of these messages, I'm also additionally getting lots of error messages about my camera and microphone not being connected, which they definitely are.

The problem with my internet connection at home -- I am using a 4G mobile access point and have NO wired internet at all. The wireless has generally worked fine for me for routine use -- I've got a wireless extender in addition to the access point, so as to make sure I've got good signal/coverage throughout the house. It works fine with my Ring system, and I'm not routinely downloading lots of stuff at the same time ...

So is the problem with my internet, with Zoom, with the fact that probably everyone and their mother is online right now, with the fact that probably everyone and their mother is using Zoom right now, or with some other factor that I'm not considering? And other than switching ISP's (which is really out of the realm of possibility for me), is there anything I can do about it?

TiA

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2020 03:47PM by PeterB.

Not unless you can afford a better platform...

Are you being hosted by a paid or free user? It can make a difference.... And yes, Zoom is trying its hardest to buy up capacity for its massive boost in demand.... They're trying, but as you described your situation it's marginal and that's a hard group to satisfy for a company running at full speed just to keep up.

---

rj
AKA
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Quote
rjmacs
Not unless you can afford a better platform...

Are you being hosted by a paid or free user? It can make a difference.... And yes, Zoom is trying its hardest to buy up capacity for its massive boost in demand.... They're trying, but as you described your situation it's marginal and that's a hard group to satisfy for a company running at full speed just to keep up.

We've now got an institutional license for Zoom... I'm sure paid for it.

I'm now checking my access point and extender, and just making sure that things are optimized with each, to the extent I can. Another problem I have here is that there are a LOT of wireless networks in my area...

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Had my first video board of directors meeting last evening using Zoom, with about 12 people. You could really tell who had a good connection and who didn't. We never lost anyone's audio, however. We have the $15 paid version. Meeting ran over 2 hours.

I think this 100% has to do with your internet connect. Is it better if you turn off your video camera?

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mattkime
I think this 100% has to do with your internet connect. Is it better if you turn off your video camera?

In our experience it jut froze first, then sometimes went to the blank box with the name. Audio was the last to go.

Locally, we're having the problem that our infrastructure just can't handle the load...
Everyone is using more internet bandwidth than normal right now, and schools are starting to gear up to try to do distance learning (all the classrooms in the county are starting to make videos, hold Zoom "office hours" etc).
I don't know for a fact that's the problem for you, but I'd be willing to bet that's PART of it.

---

Paul F.
-----
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----
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Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
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--

--
Eureka, CA

You miiiiiight be able to dial into the call via a phone number.

Quote
mattkime
I think this 100% has to do with your internet connect. Is it better if you turn off your video camera?

Agreed. And dial in via phone for audio. Also, don't show other participants in gallery view. The fewer of them you can see, the better your bandwidth issues will be.

I use Zoom 4-6hrs/day.

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The ITS here recommended less synchronous and more asynchronous. The number of simultaneous users is taxing the bandwidth all the way around… Good luck. It doesn't sound like there's a great cure for this right now besides desaturating the bandwidth.

I would try the restart your computer if possible.

And do not use VPN if you are.

If you can check the congestion of Wi-Fi 2.4Ghz channels. Android has a Wi-Fi scanner. My extended I have is on channel 11, my orbi 2.5gh is on channel 6 and frontier Wi-Fi is on channel 1. I’m in a home but do get signals from neighbors.
Also go directly on your Wi-Fi not the extender. That slows down your internet speeds.

I used ZOOM about 4 times today. It works great, if you have good intent connection.

We had 25 people with Windows, Linux, MacOS, all at once. One was sharing his screen, the others were watching, asking questions, masthead their video ON, some had video OFF.

It works fine if you have a good internet connection.

Quote
sekker
And do not use VPN if you are.

Very good point. Not all VPNs are setup to not route Zoom through the VPN.

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Zoom needs a low bandwidth option...e.g. static pic, audio-only feed based on my kid's experience with it today.

Quote
Bill in NC
Zoom needs a low bandwidth option...e.g. static pic, audio-only feed based on my kid's experience with it today.

It has that. You can set a static pic to show when video is off.

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We've been learning to turn the video feeds off for users with more than a couple of participants. Otherwise people keep dropping off due to bandwidth issues.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

.......can you....Zoom.......out......??

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_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Dammnit. I wrote a full response to the above, but then Safari crashed.

To address some of the above:

1) I can try turning off video, but that obviously won't work for online lectures. Not sure dialing in for audio is going to help much, I would assume audio is not consuming as much bandwidth as video, but I'm willing to try, if it'd help.

2) I have it set NOT to show video of other participants.

3) I'm not using a VPN, I'm not that stupid.

4) I'm going from the extender, rather than directly from the access point, because I've discovered that, for whatever reason, my speeds are much better with the extender (it may be because I'm having to use external antennas with the access point, or other factors). Unfortunately the access point is only 2.4Ghz, but I'm using the 5Ghz function of the extender to try to get around the fairly well saturated 2.4Ghz usage around here. (The extender and the access point are literally sitting maybe a couple of feet away from each other.)

5) I agree that Zoom needs a low bandwidth option -- is there a way to reduce video quality, rather than turning it off completely? (I see in the video settings, I could turn off 16:9?)

Thanks again for any useful suggestions.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2020 07:38PM by PeterB.

can you use WIRED connection?

5) I agree that Zoom needs a low bandwidth option -- is there a way to reduce video quality, rather than turning it off completely? (I see in the video settings, I could turn off 16:9?)

you can disable HD video, it';s right there in the same place as 16:9 settings.

also during meeting, go into settings and look at Statistics: is CPU, RAM, Bandwidth, Connection the problem? you should be able to see where is the bottleneck.

My connection is 100 down, 5 up and that is more than enough for high quality, crystal clear, 25 people with about 10-15 with video ON and also screen sharing.

Quote
mattkime
I think this 100% has to do with your internet connect. Is it better if you turn off your video camera?

Agreed. Is it possible your 4G provider is throttling your service?

---

It is what it is.

1) No, remember I said I have NO wired connection. Zero, zilch, nada. Not an option for me.

2) I looked, but didn't see an option to disable HD video -- will check again ... that would help a lot. Also the stats idea -- that's a great idea ... will do.**

3) Yes, unfortunately it is definitely possible I'm being throttled, since I'm paying for unlimited everything, including usage.

** Edit -- I see I'd already had the HD option disabled. Exactly what am I looking for in the statistics area? (I mean, I know what you'd mentioned, but what kind of numbers should I be seeing?)

*** Edit #2 -- I just did a quick test run and screenshotted the errors I'm seeing -- these seem to occur in a flurry, about every 3 minutes or so during a meeting:



*** Edit #3 -- don't know if I already mentioned this, but doing some network speed tests over the course of the day, it seems that I'm seeing wide variations in speed without my making any changes on my end, like if I run one speed test right after another, I'm getting very different results. So I'm wondering if I'm seeing some sort of network congestion? It is odd that for the previous two days, I was occasionally getting the "unstable connection" error, yet I was told by students that the video/audio was basically OK, yet starting this morning I'm now getting all these errors.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2020 09:33PM by PeterB.

something wrong man, you need to zap PRAM and make sure you don't have another App open trying to use your Microphone and Camera. Make sure FaceTime, Hangouts, Skype, etc are all closed.

The setting to disable the HD is right below the 16:9, one or 2 rows lower.

When I said wired, I was referring to 4G to Laptop. Is that possible to use wired (ethernet or USB), so yo don't deal with WiFi issue (on top of other issue you may have).

or something is wrong with your audio setup. Do you have any MIDI devices? do you have a monitor with audio port? My Dell has an audio channel, I can connect a speaker to the monitor, and have audio go from Mac Mini to Monitor and from there to speaker or headphones.

(Sorry about the VPN comment. It’s an issue at my institution)

Try an iPad to help troubleshoot. Can run zoom fine.

I have to do a system update tonight anyway, so that'll involve me having to restart and I can do a PRAM zap, though I doubt that has anything to do with it, because again, why is it all of a sudden a problem today?

No weird apps running or devices connected to this machine (I'm using a MBP).

I already disabled the HD.

I don't think I've ever tried using the access point by directly connecting it via USB to a laptop ... the other way it occurs to me I could be doing this is by tethering to my iPhone, but I'd think that the speeds would be even worse doing it that way?

The iPad suggestion is a good one, and I'm tempted to try that, but of course everything I need to use with Zoom is on my MBP...

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

I have to do a system update tonight anyway, so that'll involve me having to restart and I can do a PRAM zap, though I doubt that has anything to do with it, because again, why is it all of a sudden a problem today?

Look, I think you are being a little bit rude. Many problems can be cured with a restart, a software reinstall, resetting PRAM and SMC, rebooting routers, modems, etc.

You asked for solutions. We offered suggestions. Those involve restart, zapping PRAM, etc.

pretty much everything we suggested you said NO. why is it all of a sudden a problem today? Just because. Things can get corrupted. @#$%& happens. SMC and PRAM gets corrupted. The fact that your zoom cannot see the camera or the microphone suggests something is very wrong, with ZOOM or with your machine.

Reinstall ZOOM.

Restart, ZAP PRAM, reset SMC, update software, reboot again. Reboot router. Reboot modems. Use wired connections. repair permissions.

Do something for god's sake and stop asking why is it all of a sudden a problem today?

I need more coffee.

Quote
space-time
I have to do a system update tonight anyway, so that'll involve me having to restart and I can do a PRAM zap, though I doubt that has anything to do with it, because again, why is it all of a sudden a problem today?

Look, I think you are being a little bit rude. Many problems can be cured with a restart, a software reinstall, resetting PRAM and SMC, rebooting routers, modems, etc.

You asked for solutions. We offered suggestions. Those involve restart, zapping PRAM, etc.

pretty much everything we suggested you said NO. why is it all of a sudden a problem today? Just because. Things can get corrupted. @#$%& happens. SMC and PRAM gets corrupted. The fact that your zoom cannot see the camera or the microphone suggests something is very wrong, with ZOOM or with your machine.

Reinstall ZOOM.

Restart, ZAP PRAM, reset SMC, update software, reboot again. Reboot router. Reboot modems. Use wired connections. repair permissions.

Do something for god's sake and stop asking why is it all of a sudden a problem today?

I need more coffee.

Ummm pot, meet kettle. I have actually tried a number of things suggested by you and others in this thread. Have restarted, have zapped PRAM (haven't done SMC reset yet, but that's easy), I'll do the wireless access / extender reboot. Someone's cranky, and it's not me.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Have you tried disabling the HD option?

What about a wired connection?

Are you on a VPN?

I'm kidding

The microphone issue is weird. I don't have that issue even when I'm having network issues. One thing I'm not clear on is, are you using the built-in mic and camera? I see one of the messages say it's been changed to use the built-in, which suggests you used something external. You might have two issues going on - bad mic and bad network.

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The iPad suggestion is a good one, and I'm tempted to try that, but of course everything I need to use with Zoom is on my MBP...


You could use the iPad for Audio/Video and share slides from MacBook Pro. But if you really wanted to think about this, you would have figured this out by now.

@ M A V I C

I think something is wrong with his audio setup, it's not only the microphone, but also zoom cannot detect the speakers. I think he should check System Preferences -> Sound and also Audio MIDI Setup.app

Or try another user account.

Hi everyone, quick note ... thanks for suggestions. It seems like it's working much better this morning, I think it's because I did as s-t suggested and rebooted both the wireless access point and the extender, and now I see I'm getting speeds that are literally maybe 5x better than before. Why this worked, I don't know -- is it that they're throttling my speeds?

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
space-time
@ M A V I C

I think something is wrong with his audio setup, it's not only the microphone, but also zoom cannot detect the speakers. I think he should check System Preferences -> Sound and also Audio MIDI Setup.app

Or try another user account.

Yeah, if it's a headset it could be bad cable. Or if it's BT, it could be interference. I suppose these could be related if it's BT as well, as maybe there is interference messing with headset and extender.

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Years ago, at another company, we had one conference room where GoToMeeting wouldn't work. It was wild. Basically, the break room lined up with it and all of the coolers for snacks and drinks lined up together. The thought was that there was enough RF interference from all of those motors that it messed up some of the AV in the conference room.

Maybe you have something near you causing interference?

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Oh and the bad headphones/microphones idea, I thought of that too, but it's weird then that it was working fine today, Monday and Tuesday, just not yesterday.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2020 12:12PM by PeterB.

Quote
PeterB
Hi everyone, quick note ... thanks for suggestions. It seems like it's working much better this morning, I think it's because I did as s-t suggested and rebooted both the wireless access point and the extender, and now I see I'm getting speeds that are literally maybe 5x better than before. Why this worked, I don't know -- is it that they're throttling my speeds?

it would also be that more poeple work later in the afternoon and it will slow down again. Good luck.

and as M A V I C said, if oyu use a headset (wired or BT), make sure it works properly. Bluetooth is not very robust.

Quote
space-time

Quote
PeterB
Hi everyone, quick note ... thanks for suggestions. It seems like it's working much better this morning, I think it's because I did as s-t suggested and rebooted both the wireless access point and the extender, and now I see I'm getting speeds that are literally maybe 5x better than before. Why this worked, I don't know -- is it that they're throttling my speeds?

it would also be that more poeple work later in the afternoon and it will slow down again. Good luck.

and as M A V I C said, if oyu use a headset (wired or BT), make sure it works properly. Bluetooth is not very robust.

I'm using my iPhone headset ... which worked perfectly this morning and without any error messages AT ALL (not even the "unstable connection" message!) ... so hopefully I now have the problem licked, but what it was that was causing the problem, I'm not 100% sure (I'm thinking either throttling or network congestion).

Edit: I'm noticing today that even when my speeds are low, I'm STILL not getting those same error messages. So I'm wondering if it was a bug on Zoom's end? Or possibly all the stuff I did (PRAM zap, SMC reset, reboot, etc.) fixed it.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2020 01:07PM by PeterB.

Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

Quote
bfd
Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

We don't have a choice -- our institution has mandated synchronous teaching (we have to teach on the same days/times as if it were not online).

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd
Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

We don't have a choice -- our institution has mandated synchronous teaching (we have to teach on the same days/times as if it were not online).

Wow. Sounds like your admins really don't get what's happening to everyone right now, do they … that's really unfortunate. Maybe inundating IT with help tickets will get their attention… (students are pretty good at that, btw…)

Quote
bfd

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd
Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

We don't have a choice -- our institution has mandated synchronous teaching (we have to teach on the same days/times as if it were not online).

Wow. Sounds like your admins really don't get what's happening to everyone right now, do they … that's really unfortunate. Maybe inundating IT with help tickets will get their attention… (students are pretty good at that, btw…)

It's not the IT dept ... this is a university, it's the Deans.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

My understanding is that conferencing software needs your bandwidth + the bandwidth of everyone else on the call.

Each participant could have a great internet connection but with poor conference call performance if Zoom is being overloaded by a million people using it.

If you use a cellphone for the voice part, collectively that’s less of a burden on Zoom. Ditto low-res video.

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd
Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

We don't have a choice -- our institution has mandated synchronous teaching (we have to teach on the same days/times as if it were not online).

Wow. Sounds like your admins really don't get what's happening to everyone right now, do they … that's really unfortunate. Maybe inundating IT with help tickets will get their attention… (students are pretty good at that, btw…)

It's not the IT dept ... this is a university, it's the Deans.

Deans, VPs, and even Department Chairs here in the far southwest corner wouldn't last a New York minute if they made a unilateral decision like the one you're dealing with.

Quote
bfd

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bfd
Remember, you're still being paid the same as for F2F. Online is x2 as far as work goes. Focus on getting out good asynchronous lessons for now. Maybe make some short YouTube videos for starting discussions - continue the discussions asynchronously.

Don't let Zoom become a time sink.

We don't have a choice -- our institution has mandated synchronous teaching (we have to teach on the same days/times as if it were not online).

Wow. Sounds like your admins really don't get what's happening to everyone right now, do they … that's really unfortunate. Maybe inundating IT with help tickets will get their attention… (students are pretty good at that, btw…)

It's not the IT dept ... this is a university, it's the Deans.

Deans, VPs, and even Department Chairs here in the far southwest corner wouldn't last a New York minute if they made a unilateral decision like the one you're dealing with.

It depends on what kind of institution you're at. At the big names, what you're saying is probably true; but for institutions that depend on tuition dollars, they (the higher-ups) have to do whatever is going to keep them out of hot water... however you define that.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
deckeda
My understanding is that conferencing software needs your bandwidth + the bandwidth of everyone else on the call.

Each participant could have a great internet connection but with poor conference call performance if Zoom is being overloaded by a million people using it.

If you use a cellphone for the voice part, collectively that’s less of a burden on Zoom. Ditto low-res video.

Yep, I might do that if the situation recurs ... I wish there were an option in Zoom though to change video quality settings, other than just "HD or no HD".

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
PeterB

Quote
deckeda
My understanding is that conferencing software needs your bandwidth + the bandwidth of everyone else on the call.

Each participant could have a great internet connection but with poor conference call performance if Zoom is being overloaded by a million people using it.

If you use a cellphone for the voice part, collectively that’s less of a burden on Zoom. Ditto low-res video.

Yep, I might do that if the situation recurs ... I wish there were an option in Zoom though to change video quality settings, other than just "HD or no HD".

I'm pretty sure it does it automatically. That's why there's no setting. I was just on a call with a few people and some had better connections as others. Some were only a few FPS, while others were snappy with better picture quality (even though we were all on MacBooks with the same webcams.)

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Quote
M A V I C

Quote
PeterB

Quote
deckeda
My understanding is that conferencing software needs your bandwidth + the bandwidth of everyone else on the call.

Each participant could have a great internet connection but with poor conference call performance if Zoom is being overloaded by a million people using it.

If you use a cellphone for the voice part, collectively that’s less of a burden on Zoom. Ditto low-res video.

Yep, I might do that if the situation recurs ... I wish there were an option in Zoom though to change video quality settings, other than just "HD or no HD".

I'm pretty sure it does it automatically. That's why there's no setting. I was just on a call with a few people and some had better connections as others. Some were only a few FPS, while others were snappy with better picture quality (even though we were all on MacBooks with the same webcams.)

Thanks and also thanks to everyone who contributed useful info and suggestions in this post. I'm now pretty sure the glitch was on Zoom's end, but it may have also been due to crappy internet on my end...

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)