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To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 29, 2020 11:14AM
“ More Americans Should Probably Wear Masks for Protection “

“When researchers conducted systematic review of a variety of interventions used during the SARS outbreak in 2003, they found that washing hands more than 10 times daily was 55 percent effective in stopping virus transmission, while wearing a mask was actually more effective — at about 68 percent. Wearing gloves offered about the same amount of protection as frequent hand-washing, and combining all measures — hand-washing, masks, gloves and a protective gown — increased the intervention effectiveness to 91 percent.”


[www.nytimes.com]
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: wurm
Date: March 29, 2020 11:21AM
According to the doc in the excellent video posted here the other day, the biggest benefit to using a mask for us normal folks is to keep us from touching our faces. To that end, even a bandana would help.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 29, 2020 11:45AM
Right, what's "effective" is a combination (or, consideration) of behaviors and usage scenarios, not merely how a thing infects "on its own."
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 29, 2020 12:09PM
....if masks are so scarce.....why do 70-80% of people on the street seem to have mask, some even have the good ones........???

....and some of the people who have masks, act like that makes them 'invulnerable' and they don't practice 'social distancing'.........



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: March 29, 2020 12:10PM
masking is fine, do it. I do it in the grocery for sure..
outside, not so much.
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..because they can hang there..that fact from Fauci..I mean..it's part of THE most basic front line defense in the hospital...it obviously does a job.

and the hands to the face things is real, tho, we tend to want to make comfort adjustments to these things strapped to our faces and putting pressure on our noses..i suffer through it when imin a store and touching stuff..i try to go into these places with a zero hand fidget attitude..

Im for any sensible precaution, go for it.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: PeterB
Date: March 29, 2020 12:16PM
Quote
Kraniac
masking is fine, do it. I do it in the grocery for sure..
outside, not so much.
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..because they can hang there..that fact from Fauci..I mean..it's part of THE most basic front line defense in the hospital...it obviously does a job.

Right, but remember that the specks in the air will eventually fall to the ground -- they don't really "hang there" for long. You'd have to walk in the path of someone who'd just sneezed or coughed, or touch something that their droplets landed on, then touch your face (without having washed your hands).

And as far as masks are concerned (generally), I agree with the NYC doc that it's more about discouraging you from touching your face. Other than the N95's, they WON'T prevent you from inhaling this virus, and even the N95's won't be effective if not worn properly.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2020 12:17PM by PeterB.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 29, 2020 12:44PM
....just came back from shopping at Aldi.....the woman behind me was young mid 20s/early 30s and was with her grandmother. She had a mask but her grandma didn't. Wouldn't one give the mask to one's grandmother who is at more risk......??

....they both stood right behind very close and were not practicing 'social distancing'......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: d4
Date: March 29, 2020 12:47PM
If you are in NM, NE, SD — Maybe no.
If you are in CA, WA, LA — Maybe yes.
If you are in NY — HELL YES.

Short video from World Health Organization on how to properly wear and dispose of a surgical type mask.
[www.youtube.com]

AliExpress has them in stock and shipping from US sellers.
The website looks sketchy. The tracking is non-existent. But the site is legit. With some buyer protections. Mine arrived in a little under a week.



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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Carm
Date: March 29, 2020 01:10PM
d4, are the masks legit?

In crowded locations yes (shopping for food or waiting in lines to get in, FIL was at Sams club waiting to get In this morning) I’ve tried to convince my wife that she needs to limit the outings. When we were out for a dr appointment, she wanted us all to go in to grocery store afterwards, I’m like that’s a big NOPE.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: d4
Date: March 29, 2020 01:48PM
Quote
Carm
d4, are the masks legit?

Legit in what way? They are the surgical type masks as seen in the linked video. Light blue on one side. White on the other. 3 extending pleats. Elastic ear loops. Thin malleable metal strip on bridge of nose. It extends from the nose to the chin. AliExpress is flooded with sellers. I'm willing to bet they are all from the same factory anyway.

US shippers are more expensive. Maybe purchase a pack of 50 from a US shipper (arrives in a week) to hold you over until your 100+ bulk order arrives from China (in a month). Might as well place a large order and distribute to friends, family and neighbors. I haven't seen masks for sale in retail stores anywhere in NY for any price.



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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 29, 2020 02:32PM
Quote
Kraniac
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..

That could happen any time, C19 or not. Hopefully some peeps just practice regular social etiquette and cough/sneeze into their pits.

And in these times, walking around with a cough or sniffles would mean *you* need a mask, not others.

oh, and paywall on your story.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: March 29, 2020 02:37PM
Taking a look at Ali Express and I wouldn’t go near them with a ten foot pole. Price gouging and selling masks labeled N95 that clearly aren’t. ‘Den of thieves’ comes to mind.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: PeterB
Date: March 29, 2020 02:55PM
Quote
d4
If you are in NM, NE, SD — Maybe no.
If you are in CA, WA, LA — Maybe yes.
If you are in NY — HELL YES.

Short video from World Health Organization on how to properly wear and dispose of a surgical type mask.
[www.youtube.com]

AliExpress has them in stock and shipping from US sellers.
The website looks sketchy. The tracking is non-existent. But the site is legit. With some buyer protections. Mine arrived in a little under a week.

Sorry, but I don't see the point of wearing a mask that won't protect you. As mentioned by many over the last week or so, who needs and should be wearing the masks are those who are ill, and also our very important healthcare providers.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Fritz
Date: March 29, 2020 02:56PM
I have my old asbestos mask.


But I'm afraid to wear as I think it might frighten others.



!#$@@$#!

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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Ammo
Date: March 29, 2020 02:58PM
Are masks for one-time use or can they be reused? I also think I read somewhere that it’s important how you take them off after using in public.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 29, 2020 02:59PM
I'm all for wearing a mask and a T-shirt that says

'This isn't COVID 19
It's 211PC'






I am that Masked Man.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: March 29, 2020 03:10PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
Kraniac
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..

That could happen any time, C19 or not. Hopefully some peeps just practice regular social etiquette and cough/sneeze into their pits.

And in these times, walking around with a cough or sniffles would mean *you* need a mask, not others.

oh, and paywall on your story.

what does 'paywall on my story' mean?

Lots of things could happen at any time..including someone doing it during C19. which is the point, isn't it? I don't think its prudent to rely 'regular social etiquette' ..grocery stores are filled with corners and turns..where folks might be trying to practice manners..found a quiet spot and let that sneeze rip

the question i have is: Why do i notice folks sort of reacting to a suggestion that if someone wants to wear a mask>then it's ok. ?
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: March 29, 2020 03:19PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Kraniac
masking is fine, do it. I do it in the grocery for sure..
outside, not so much.
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..because they can hang there..that fact from Fauci..I mean..it's part of THE most basic front line defense in the hospital...it obviously does a job.

Right, but remember that the specks in the air will eventually fall to the ground -- they don't really "hang there" for long. You'd have to walk in the path of someone who'd just sneezed or coughed, or touch something that their droplets landed on, then touch your face (without having washed your hands).

And as far as masks are concerned (generally), I agree with the NYC doc that it's more about discouraging you from touching your face. Other than the N95's, they WON'T prevent you from inhaling this virus, and even the N95's won't be effective if not worn properly.


PeterB,

read this NPR article -touches on airborne transmission

The point is that there are viruses that can remain in the air for longer periods of time..At the beginning of the linked article, the WHO tempers their statement by using the word 'seems'. The WHO also acknowledges that in certain conditions the airborne possibility can be enhanced.

IMO, it is, as suggested by the inclusion of rebuttal from a Doctor in the article, extremely irresponsible to dish info that is not proven to be fact..there are many many unknowns here..I prefer to cut my losses and embrace a wide range of common modes vs eliminating dangers that folks ';say' things about one way or another.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 29, 2020 03:42PM
Quote
Kraniac
what does 'paywall on my story' mean?

apologies, that was to the OP. NYT wants u to subscribe to see their story.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Fritz
Date: March 29, 2020 04:05PM
try deleteing cookies to pass the paywall, quit the browser.
sometimes it works.



!#$@@$#!

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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 29, 2020 04:35PM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
Wouldn't one give the mask to one's grandmother who is at more risk......??

They are both at the same amount of "risk". Its the other people in line who might be sick that are putting *everyone* in line at risk, regardless of age. They shoudl have a mask on. Or better yet, be at home.

There is so much mis information out there it kills me.







Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: PeterB
Date: March 29, 2020 05:11PM
Quote
Kraniac
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Kraniac
masking is fine, do it. I do it in the grocery for sure..
outside, not so much.
you just never know when you're gonna round a corner in a store where someone has just coughed or sneezed and launched a few of these specks into the air..because they can hang there..that fact from Fauci..I mean..it's part of THE most basic front line defense in the hospital...it obviously does a job.

Right, but remember that the specks in the air will eventually fall to the ground -- they don't really "hang there" for long. You'd have to walk in the path of someone who'd just sneezed or coughed, or touch something that their droplets landed on, then touch your face (without having washed your hands).

And as far as masks are concerned (generally), I agree with the NYC doc that it's more about discouraging you from touching your face. Other than the N95's, they WON'T prevent you from inhaling this virus, and even the N95's won't be effective if not worn properly.


PeterB,

read this NPR article -touches on airborne transmission

The point is that there are viruses that can remain in the air for longer periods of time..At the beginning of the linked article, the WHO tempers their statement by using the word 'seems'. The WHO also acknowledges that in certain conditions the airborne possibility can be enhanced.

IMO, it is, as suggested by the inclusion of rebuttal from a Doctor in the article, extremely irresponsible to dish info that is not proven to be fact..there are many many unknowns here..I prefer to cut my losses and embrace a wide range of common modes vs eliminating dangers that folks ';say' things about one way or another.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is. One doctor in your article states that some viruses (e.g., measles) can stay in the air for up to two hours later. Fine, let's assume that's true. (It may or may not be true for this coronavirus; current data suggests that the coronavirus can live for up to about three hours aerosolized, but of course that's under laboratory conditions, and assumes things like no airflow, a contained/isolated area, etc.) That still doesn't change the fact that your surgical mask won't prevent you from catching it. Unless you want to be wearing N95 masks around, but the people who really need those are the ones who are trying to save lives in the hospitals and elsewhere. The only exception to that I can think of, is someone who is providing care at home to someone else who has the virus.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2020 05:30PM by PeterB.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 29, 2020 11:22PM
[www.washingtonpost.com]

March 28, 2020 at 1:18 p.m. CST
When historians tally up the many missteps policymakers have made in response to the coronavirus pandemic, the senseless and unscientific push for the general public to avoid wearing masks should be near the top.
The evidence not only fails to support the push, it also contradicts it. It can take a while for official recommendations to catch up with scientific thinking. In this case, such delays might be deadly and economically disastrous. It’s time to make masks a key part of our fight to contain, then defeat, this pandemic. Masks effective at “flattening the curve” can be made at home with nothing more than a T-shirt and a pair of scissors. We should all wear masks — store-bought or homemade — whenever we’re out in public.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: decay
Date: March 29, 2020 11:53PM
I'll share what my cousin and his wife told me tonight.

He's an orthopedic surgeon. She's an infectious diseases specialist phyisician. They met in Philadelphia at Thomas Jefferson.

If you can get a mask, wear one. The OFFICIAL word that only certain people needs masks is because there aren't enough masks for health care workers, and they don't want to worsen the shortage.

Unofficial, and take it however you want.



---
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 30, 2020 12:45AM
Just stay inside.

washington post also behind paywall.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: PeterB
Date: March 30, 2020 12:56AM
Quote
Speedy
[www.washingtonpost.com]

March 28, 2020 at 1:18 p.m. CST
When historians tally up the many missteps policymakers have made in response to the coronavirus pandemic, the senseless and unscientific push for the general public to avoid wearing masks should be near the top.
The evidence not only fails to support the push, it also contradicts it. It can take a while for official recommendations to catch up with scientific thinking. In this case, such delays might be deadly and economically disastrous. It’s time to make masks a key part of our fight to contain, then defeat, this pandemic. Masks effective at “flattening the curve” can be made at home with nothing more than a T-shirt and a pair of scissors. We should all wear masks — store-bought or homemade — whenever we’re out in public.

Sorry, I'm going to go with the government on this one, over a position piece from someone at WaPo.

[www.fda.gov]

... the real issue here is: filtered particle size. I looked this up to understand exactly what N95 means, and whether or not a regular respirator mask I own would perform the same as an N95. The answer is, it wouldn't ... the N95 is designed to filter out 0.3 micron particles. Most regular respirator masks are not designed to filter out anything nearly that small, and surgical masks are NOT designed to do any sort of consistent filtration; one surgical mask versus another could filter out very different size particles.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Carm
Date: March 30, 2020 01:23AM
[www.ctvnews.ca]

TORONTO -- Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Health Canada will ensure that all masks and medical equipment arriving from China will be properly evaluated, after reports that the Dutch government recalled over 600,000 faulty masks imported from the country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 01:25AM by Carm.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: Janit
Date: March 30, 2020 06:32AM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
....just came back from shopping at Aldi.....the woman behind me was young mid 20s/early 30s and was with her grandmother. She had a mask but her grandma didn't. Wouldn't one give the mask to one's grandmother who is at more risk......??

....they both stood right behind very close and were not practicing 'social distancing'......

You shoulda heard the loud argument they had about masks just before they left the house. Grandma probably refused.
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 30, 2020 01:15PM
The purpose of surgical masks is to protect the patient in the surgery from your saliva, sputum, and aerosolized pathogens.

The purpose of surgical masks is not to protect the wearer. There is other PPE for that.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: To Mask or Not To Mask
Posted by: rz
Date: March 30, 2020 01:42PM
My wife made us all masks. They can take the N95 filters, of which she purchased a bunch at the beginning of flu season. They are washable and have a metal piece at the nose bridge to adjust for fit. She is involved with a local sewing store that is making masks for local hospitals. She had ordered a whole bunch of elastic (for the bands) right before things got really bad, and donated it to the store when they put out an urgent plea because they couldn't get any.
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