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American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 26, 2020 08:27PM
Hope this helps you make your travel choices.

American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
[apnews.com]

DALLAS (AP) — American Airlines will start booking flights to full capacity next week, ending any effort to promote social distancing on its planes while the United States sets records for new reported cases of the coronavirus.

American’s move matches the policy of United Airlines but contrasts sharply with rivals that limit bookings to create space between passengers to minimize the risk of contagion.

The pilots’ union at American said it hopes that the airline reconsiders and instead decides to add more flights using idle planes and crews.

American said Friday that it will continue to notify customers if their flight is likely to be full, and let them change flights at no extra cost. The airline said it will also let passengers change seats on the plane if there is room and if they stay in the same cabin.

Since April, American has limited bookings to about 85% of a plane’s capacity by leaving about half the middle seats open. However, the airline will start selling every seat it can beginning next Wednesday.

Delta says it is capping seats at about 60% of capacity and Southwest at about 67%, both through Sept. 30. JetBlue says it will leave middle seats empty through July 31 unless the person is traveling with a passenger in an adjoining seat.

United, Spirit Airlines and now American, however, are taking a different approach, arguing that other steps — including stepped-up cleaning procedures and requiring all passengers to wear face coverings — eliminate the need to block some seats. United CEO Scott Kirby has said social distancing is impossible on planes anyway; that even with empty middle seats, people are less than six feet away from each other.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 26, 2020 08:37PM
We were planning car trips when possible anyway.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: JoeM
Date: June 26, 2020 08:39PM
No airline flights for us for the the immediate future. Hoping by end of year that we can consider taking a vacation by air.



JoeM
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 26, 2020 08:46PM
Proof positive profits preempt people.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 26, 2020 08:47PM
We booked a Southwest flight in mid October, those tickets might well go unused.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 26, 2020 09:23PM
.....the American way........profit above all else.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 26, 2020 09:34PM
On the other hand: You may want to think twice before switching your tickets to a Pakistani airline.

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan is grounding 262 airline pilots suspected of dodging their exams following inquiries into their qualifications, the aviation minister said on Friday in a move that has caused global concern.

The action was prompted by the preliminary report on an airliner crash in Karachi last month, which found that the pilots had failed to follow standard procedures and disregarded alarms.

Ninety-seven people were killed in that crash and the airline in question, state-run Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), said on Thursday it would ground pilots with “dubious” licences.

Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan said authorities had been investigating collusion between pilots and civil aviation officials since late 2018 to get around examinations.

He said all the pilots were accused of having someone sit one or more papers for them, and sometimes even all the eight papers required for an airline pilot’s licence.

The 262 pilots grounded on Friday pending conclusion of inquiries against them included 141 from PIA, nine from Air Blue, 10 from Serene Airline, and 17 from Shaheen Airlines, which has closed down, Khan said.

They included 109 commercial and 153 airline transport pilots, the minister said.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: June 26, 2020 09:43PM
I don't fly American anyway, but I would not consider them at all if this is what they plan to do. Leaving a few middle seats empty was a feeble response, and even that was too much for them.

I doubt I'll go anywhere this year. I am afraid my clients won't go anywhere, either, but I can't blame them for not wanting to fly. When no one travels, I have no work.

I would mind being involuntarily retired a bit less if I could travel, go to concerts or museums, etc.



My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: June 26, 2020 11:21PM
Quote
Racer X
Proof positive profits preempt people.

There is a very large percentage of the population who doesn't care or doesn't believe. They are catering to them.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 27, 2020 06:02AM
I'd still feel more secure flying than taking a car trip that required an overnight stay at a hotel.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 27, 2020 06:31AM
Quote
Ombligo
I'd still feel more secure flying than taking a car trip that required an overnight stay at a hotel.

Depends on the length of the flight, but the current recommendation is flight is less risky than auto trip with two overnight hotel stays.

Also depends on where you go - some parts of country have a lot less virus and car trips are safer.

We are still mostly sticking to day trips.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 27, 2020 07:48AM
We'll drive and camp, if we vacation away this summer. We tent, so we'll still have to share bathroom facilities with others, but I figure the more open air involved in general the less likely to encounter a significant viral load.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 27, 2020 08:08AM
I believe car trips can be quite safe if you are not too particular about dining options (carry-out, drive-thrus, etc.). Easy enough to avoid getting near other people. Easy enough to sanitize your hands after buying fuel. Same after using restrooms. Hotels are not very busy so ask for a room that has been unoccupied for a week. Just keep your hands clean and away from your face.

And wear a damn mask to protect others just in case.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: June 27, 2020 08:25AM
So last night, we had a little neighborhood gathering. Just chatting and getting to know one another (we're the new kids on the block). Anyway, one of our neighbors is a retired aircraft mechanic. He'd been in the industry for 30 years I think he said. So one of the other neighbors asked him if he would fly now. He didn't flat out say no, but you could tell he was thinking it. It was as if he didn't want to regale us with stories about how recycled air systems in an aircraft really work to deter us from flying forever.



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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: June 27, 2020 09:52AM
My daughter and I were talking about airline travel last night; she saw a video from a flight in the 80s and marveled at how much room they had, yet how much they still complained. We went back and found a few from the 60s and 70s. Nowadays, of course, you're packed in like sardines.

Today, it's a means to an end rather than an event. I have older relatives who said you dressed up a bit to take a flight when they were younger; aunts who talk of buying their flight outfits.

There was a TV show; murder mystery. Not important. The pilot who was arrested at the end said something like, "When I first became a pilot, I was one step from an astronaut. Now, I'm a bus driver."

Airlines are a @#$%& show.



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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 27, 2020 10:02AM
Many believe that aircraft cabin air is constantly recycled, but it is actually completely flushed through the system every 3-4 minutes being replaced with fresh air from outside the aircraft.

From BBC Science:

Quote

The air in the cabin isn’t sealed in. Fresh air is continuously introduced during the flight. A plane’s jets are already sucking in and compressing huge volumes of air to burn with the aviation fuel. Some of this is diverted for the passengers to breathe. Because the compression heats up the air, it must first be ducted around the wings to be cooled down. The air already in the cabin is passed through high-efficiency particulate (HEPA) filters to remove bacteria and viruses and then mixed 50:50 with the fresh air from outside. The excess cabin air is vented through valves to the rear of the plane to keep the cabin pressure constant.

This system means that the air in the plane’s cabin is completely replaced around 15 times an hour, but this is mainly about controlling the temperature and removing contaminants. The oxygen that all the passengers breathe is less than one percent of the fresh oxygen entering the cabin.


Other links saying essentially the same --
[www.tripsavvy.com]
[www.cntraveler.com]
[www.askthepilot.com]


Aircraft are not sealed tubes, look at the tail of any passenger plane and you will see a hole, it can be several feet across. That is where the air comes out. If you stopped an aircraft from moving and shut down the engines, it would quickly depressurize (not violently). The dynamic is like a water sprinkler - more water comes in from the hose than can go out of the sprinkler. That increases the internal pressure. Same thing with a plane - the engines route more air into the cabin than can escape at the same rate. The difference causes the cabin to pressurize.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 27, 2020 10:13AM
Ok, I read the Cinde Nast Traveler article, and it gets me part of the way there. Here’s why:

First, there are a lot of statements like “many airplanes” or “have aircraft”, rather than “all aircraft”.

Second, the air replacement rate is controllable. Yes, maybe this week or month they’re replacing all the air every minute or every 10 minutes or whatever. But replacing the air costs fuel and thus is an expense. So they may cut down the air replacement rate at any time without telling anyone. The article didn’t mention what the replacement rate was in, say, last January.

Not harping on you, just arguing with the article.


Quote
Ombligo
Many believe that aircraft cabin air is constantly recycled, but it is actually completely flushed through the system every 3-4 minutes being replaced with fresh air from outside the aircraft.

From BBC Science:

Quote

The air in the cabin isn’t sealed in. Fresh air is continuously introduced during the flight. A plane’s jets are already sucking in and compressing huge volumes of air to burn with the aviation fuel. Some of this is diverted for the passengers to breathe. Because the compression heats up the air, it must first be ducted around the wings to be cooled down. The air already in the cabin is passed through high-efficiency particulate (HEPA) filters to remove bacteria and viruses and then mixed 50:50 with the fresh air from outside. The excess cabin air is vented through valves to the rear of the plane to keep the cabin pressure constant.

This system means that the air in the plane’s cabin is completely replaced around 15 times an hour, but this is mainly about controlling the temperature and removing contaminants. The oxygen that all the passengers breathe is less than one percent of the fresh oxygen entering the cabin.


Other links saying essentially the same --
[www.tripsavvy.com]
[www.cntraveler.com]
[www.askthepilot.com]


Aircraft are not sealed tubes, look at the tail of any passenger plane and you will see a hole, it can be several feet across. That is where the air comes out. If you stopped an aircraft from moving and shut down the engines, it would quickly depressurize (not violently). The dynamic is like a water sprinkler - more water comes in from the hose than can go out of the sprinkler. That increases the internal pressure. Same thing with a plane - the engines route more air into the cabin than can escape at the same rate. The difference causes the cabin to pressurize.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 27, 2020 10:30AM
....so fight.....not flight......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 27, 2020 10:48AM
No travel for us for the foreseeable future.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 27, 2020 11:08AM
....not even to supermarket......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: DavidS
Date: June 27, 2020 11:38AM
Family vacation for the 5 of us next week that involves a 3 hour flight. Non-stop flights each way are currently less than 50% full. We will be wearing masks on the flight and anywhere we go (will have our own car). We are staying at a private AirBnb with our own pool and private beach area. Definitely not going to Florida, Texas, or any other hot-spot states and feel we are taking the best precautions, short of staying home. My kids have been quarantining away from school (obviously) and friends since March. My wife and I have been mostly working from home also.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2020 11:39AM by DavidS.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 27, 2020 02:38PM
Second, the air replacement rate is controllable. Yes, maybe this week or month they’re replacing all the air every minute or every 10 minutes or whatever. But replacing the air costs fuel and thus is an expense. So they may cut down the air replacement rate at any time without telling anyone. The article didn’t mention what the replacement rate was in, say, last January.

The Ask the Pilot article would seem to somewhat contradict that at least in all but Airbus' craft. Unless I read it wrong, Pilot claims that while oxygen levels are controllable air replacement rates are not.
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 27, 2020 03:32PM
Quote
RgrF
The Ask the Pilot article would seem to somewhat contradict that at least in all but Airbus' craft. Unless I read it wrong, Pilot claims that while oxygen levels are controllable air replacement rates are not.

A friend who was a pilot for Eastern (way back when) told me about dialing back the Oxygen on rowdy flights. Said people would tire out and sleep. He had some great stories, so he may have been yanking me, but sound plausible (especially since we are talking the pre-lawsuit-happy 70's)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: American Airlines will book flights to full capacity
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: June 28, 2020 10:40AM
Why is this a surprise? The airlines are dying. They have payments to make on expensive equipment and are competing with low price, no frills competitors. To keep prices down, they need to fill planes.
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