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Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 24, 2020 02:37PM
Couple this with successful Starlink, and you can work anywhere on the planet where you have enough electricity to run your laptop and satellite system. We're also going to see a knowledge worker migration OUT of overpriced residential real estate hells like NYC, SF, LA, etc..


[www.reuters.com]

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Corporate America is downsizing its real estate footprint as companies allow more employees to work from home, a growing threat to the bottom line of owners of traditional office buildings and a sign that companies are looking for ways to cut costs as a result of the coronavirus pandemic."
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 24, 2020 02:39PM
I am curious how this affects WeWork. I think they were in trouble even before covid
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 02:44PM
At my work, it's reduced the pressure on parking spots! This is HUGE.

Some groups are going to go from WFH one day a week (or less) to WFO one day a week (or less).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2020 02:44PM by sekker.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2020 02:52PM
Exodus has been underway in several large cities, including NY and SF. People are moving out to have more space, pay less for rent/housing, cost of living and taxes. Rumor has it that there is a three month wait list for moving companies in NYC.

Impact may be huge:
1. Less income tax revenue
2. Glut of office and residential space available - rental rates will drop, building owners/developers may not be able to make mortgage payments or investment trusts may loose investment income
3. Stores and restaurants with significant lost business opportunity
4. Service industry jobs will drop
5. Hotels will be in serious trouble. Business travel is down and tourism is down even more. We probably won't see foreigner tourists visit the US until mid 2021 at the earliest - major financial hit for major cities.

How are major cities going to fund services?

NY State is already discussing increasing taxes on the wealthiest. Last time they did so, it drove people out of the state. Take a look at what happened to NJ when Tepper moved out and took his company with him.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 03:02PM
Quote
macphanatic
Exodus has been underway in several large cities, including NY and SF. People are moving out to have more space, pay less for rent/housing, cost of living and taxes. Rumor has it that there is a three month wait list for moving companies in NYC.

Impact may be huge:
1. Less income tax revenue
2. Glut of office and residential space available - rental rates will drop, building owners/developers may not be able to make mortgage payments or investment trusts may loose investment income
3. Stores and restaurants with significant lost business opportunity
4. Service industry jobs will drop
5. Hotels will be in serious trouble. Business travel is down and tourism is down even more. We probably won't see foreigner tourists visit the US until mid 2021 at the earliest - major financial hit for major cities.

How are major cities going to fund services?

NY State is already discussing increasing taxes on the wealthiest. Last time they did so, it drove people out of the state. Take a look at what happened to NJ when Tepper moved out and took his company with him.

Yes, indeed. Our city was loving the recent increase in downtown property valuations, which led them to kick out some non-profits (tripling their property tax year/year). But now they are desperate to keep the floor from falling out.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 03:04PM
And I think Malls and other retail space is about to undergo a long-needed re-envisioning. The US has long-since had FAR more retail sq ft per citizen than Europe or ANYWHERE else in the world. All being built when online is in exponential growth.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 24, 2020 03:05PM
Good or bad, not sure, but seems a little early to make huge predictions?

Sure, companies might be cutting office space -- but that doesnt mean most of america wants to start working from home.

As many of us prob already know, working from home has its own big downsides.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 03:09PM
Quote
jdc
Good or bad, not sure, but seems a little early to make huge predictions?

Sure, companies might be cutting office space -- but that doesnt mean most of america wants to start working from home.

As many of us prob already know, working from home has its own big downsides.

Our institution had a '2030' strategic plan, and WFH was on the roadmap. Our leadership has already declared we are 'accelerating' our plan. As I noted above, the reduced pressure on parking spots is a HUGE benefit from WFH.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 24, 2020 03:13PM
....corp. world all comes down to money.....they will discover that they can save money on rent (renting office space) as well as office supplies, utilities, electricity, etc........



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 03:15PM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
....corp. world all comes down to money.....they will discover that they can save money on rent (renting office space) as well as office supplies, utilities, electricity, etc........

We have teams that are working BETTER as WFH. We want to KEEP this win while we reduce the negative aspects of WFH.

I have two staff members that really cannot WFH effectively. Let me be clear, this is a complex time. My statements are broad-stroke.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 24, 2020 03:22PM
......also some may find it easier to work from home because it limits human interaction.....if one has annoying co-workers, obnoxious co-workers, bosses who look over your shoulder, etc........you don't have to deal with that as much when you WFH.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2020 04:08PM
Not everyone wants or can work from home. However, with schools looking at virtual or hybrid sessions at least for the fall, many parent's may not have the option to go into an office. Or they or someone in their household be health compromised.

The other issue is that many companies went to smaller cubicles or open concept office space. These arrangements don't work well for social distancing, especially if they didn't have assigned work stations. It's probably easier and cheaper for companies to have as many people work from home instead of renovating office space.

The interesting question going around now is that if someone goes into their office space and catches COVID or other virus, how will work comp respond. In the past, this wasn't even a topic. Now, it's a serious concern and if a company is not taking and enforcing the proper precautions may be held responsible. This makes it much easier for a company to incentivize employees to work from home.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 24, 2020 04:10PM
Same could be said of human interaction with people at home too =). Just different annoying peeps.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 24, 2020 04:24PM
I think this is possible without star link.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 24, 2020 05:28PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
macphanatic
Exodus has been underway in several large cities, including NY and SF. People are moving out to have more space, pay less for rent/housing, cost of living and taxes. Rumor has it that there is a three month wait list for moving companies in NYC.

Impact may be huge:
1. Less income tax revenue
2. Glut of office and residential space available - rental rates will drop, building owners/developers may not be able to make mortgage payments or investment trusts may loose investment income
3. Stores and restaurants with significant lost business opportunity
4. Service industry jobs will drop
5. Hotels will be in serious trouble. Business travel is down and tourism is down even more. We probably won't see foreigner tourists visit the US until mid 2021 at the earliest - major financial hit for major cities.

How are major cities going to fund services?

NY State is already discussing increasing taxes on the wealthiest. Last time they did so, it drove people out of the state. Take a look at what happened to NJ when Tepper moved out and took his company with him.

Yes, indeed. Our city was loving the recent increase in downtown property valuations, which led them to kick out some non-profits (tripling their property tax year/year). But now they are desperate to keep the floor from falling out.

The (possibly naïve) answer to me is naturally cities are going to have to reduce services since demand won’t be as great. Seems to me if done intelligently, this can be accomplished. Whether it’s aesthetically mothballing infrastructure or downsizing other services, shouldn’t be rocket science.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: davester
Date: July 24, 2020 07:07PM
I think that this was something that was going to happen anyway, even without Covid. The virus just greatly accelerated the transition. I've for years thought that it was madness to have millions of people spending hours driving and pumping out greenhouse gases just so that they could go to an office and stare at a computer screen. This practice is a leftover from the age of factory work. It makes no sense, using up people's time, causing stress, creating traffic accidents, wasting fuel and creating pollution for no good reason. Of course it won't be 100%...some facetime is needed even for office workers. However, not that much is needed. Also, this obviously doesn't apply to people whose physical presence is needed for work. This is doubly true for people who fly to regional offices for the sole purpose of attending meetings (or worse yet, commute by aircraft to another city to stare at a computer screen (I actually know people who do this). Stop the madness!

Also, I see this potentially impacting inner city housing prices. This is a good thing since the ramping up of prices in our cities has caused a housing crisis. Perhaps some of that office space can be repurposed to housing.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2020 07:09PM by davester.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 24, 2020 07:19PM
'The Death of Cities' has been predicted for thousands of years. And yet they are also the true melting pot of people and innovation.

The great changes happen with pandemics. Arguably, Greece lost to Sparta because of a pandemic. Same thing for Rome.

What is the future of cities? is a great Planet Money episode.

[www.npr.org]

We are seeing the next incarnation, even if we have a vaccine in 12 months or less.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 24, 2020 07:31PM
And the whole Worker's Comp issue? How is it MY problem? It happened at your HOUSE! How do we even know you were working at the time? Could be huge secondary savings besides office leases.

Most of the workplace injuries where I worked were actually idiot office staff standing on wheeled swivel/tilting chairs hanging bling in their office, or one idiot who slashed open her palm using a box knife trying to split open her bagel. Never those of us working with explosives, rocket fuel or in the machine shop.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2020 07:48PM
Quote
Racer X
And the whole Worker's Comp issue? How is it MY problem? It happened at your HOUSE! How do we even know you were working at the time? Could be huge secondary savings besides office leases.

Most of the workplace injuries where I worked were actually idiot office staff standing on wheeled swivel/tilting chairs hanging bling in their office, or one idiot who slashed open her palm using a box knife trying to split open her bagel. Never those of us working with explosives, rocket fuel or in the machine shop.

There’s still a work comp exposure. It’s just different.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 24, 2020 07:55PM
very much a he said/she said situation if there aren't witnesses



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 24, 2020 08:26PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
Racer X
And the whole Worker's Comp issue? How is it MY problem? It happened at your HOUSE! How do we even know you were working at the time? Could be huge secondary savings besides office leases.

Most of the workplace injuries where I worked were actually idiot office staff standing on wheeled swivel/tilting chairs hanging bling in their office, or one idiot who slashed open her palm using a box knife trying to split open her bagel. Never those of us working with explosives, rocket fuel or in the machine shop.

There’s still a work comp exposure. It’s just different.

I work a job where I could be exposed to HIV, and there’s pretty much no way for me to get Worker’s Comp. should it happen. I doubt Covid it is much different.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: blooz
Date: July 24, 2020 09:07PM
I'm thinking of a couple Isaac Asimov novels with a robot detective protagonist who visits one planet (if i recall correctly) where no one leaves home and only connects to others thru computers. Maybe we are going this way.



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 24, 2020 09:30PM
Quote
davester
This practice is a leftover from the age of factory work.

Also from pre-computer-age office work, when everything was on paper.



Quote
davester
Perhaps some of that office space can be repurposed to housing.

Great idea!



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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Don C
Date: July 24, 2020 10:24PM
Back in my working days, my office for a year or two was in a closed high school. It was amazing how much interdepartmental business was conducted through brief encounters in the hallway. When we moved out and the departments I worked with moved to different locations, it took some effort to stay in contact. Issues had to be important enough to warrant making the effort. I missed those days of chance encounters.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: July 24, 2020 10:54PM
Quote
sekker
And I think Malls and other retail space is about to undergo a long-needed re-envisioning. The US has long-since had FAR more retail sq ft per citizen than Europe or ANYWHERE else in the world. All being built when online is in exponential growth.

Malls repurposed as housing; been done before...
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 24, 2020 11:03PM
I've been full time remote for the past 3 years. Its often a much bigger change for management than those without reports. Forces them to pay attention to output vs time spent in a chair. I think it felt odd for a month or so but soon I was just focused on getting the job done and hardly thought about it.

I see (almost) nothing but good coming from an increase in remote work. There are the obvious things like lack of commute but there's also the opportunity for wealth to be less geographically concentrated which is good for everybody. IMO, its not the 'death' of cities so much as reducing the burden on larger cities and a boom in smaller and mid sized cities. It also potentially changes how large cities work. I have coworkers who live within commuting distance of an office - but why bother? That helps reduce a central strain on larger cities.

Its not that going into an office doesn't have its charms but doing it every day is too much.

>I have two staff members that really cannot WFH effectively. Let me be clear, this is a complex time.

Coworking is usually helpful for such people although that doesn't work right now. Ideally I'd be going into a coworking space.

>Exodus has been underway in several large cities, including NY and SF.

I resemble that remark.



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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 25, 2020 01:16AM
Nah. For one simple reason: we are social animals. Sure, some people will continue to work from home for a long while due to the pandemic, but the empty cubicles they leave behind will be occupied by other companies. This has been studied to death over the years and whilst I think that there is a very good and sensible reason for allowing flexibility in the work week (esp to retain workers), there's really tons of evidence that being with other people spawns creativity.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 25, 2020 06:05AM
WFH. Heck, those workers will soon enough not be needed at all.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: tuqqer
Date: July 25, 2020 06:51AM
Out of all of the possible changes that make take place in post-COVID life, this is the one I find most fascinating. I'm wondering of places like small town midwest will start to see an increase in people.

I've worked from home in my skivvies for over 15 years, like many of you, so the socio-economic-physio-psycho effect was barely a ripple here. But I suspect it's going to be one of the biggest changes in all this.



M1 2020 Mac mini (16G 2T) Monterey 12.x Dual 25" Acer 1440p LCDs M1 2020 13" MBAir (256G 8G)
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: July 25, 2020 07:51AM
I was only able to work from home at the very end of my office-job life. But it was infinitely better than traveling to the office every day. Up until 2000, I had an actual office with a door (!!!) and except when I had an assistant sharing that space, I was able to concentrate better and work more efficiently, even though there were interruptions. When we moved to a smaller office, I had a cubicle, and that was a pain. It is a productivity killer, IMHO. People pass through while chatting or have conversations at a nearby cubicle, and you can’t tune it out without headphones, which are not an ideal solution. Once I got broadband at home, which may have been around 2000 pr 2001, I really could have worked there 90% of he time. In 2003 the company went through yet another downsizing in its slow death spiral, and I was laid off. For the next couple of years, though, they gave me freelance work, and some of that was done from home. I loved it.

Meanwhile, they were stuck with an office space that had rapidly become more than they needed. Business continued to decline. They made one last move to a smaller space in 2010, and a few months after that, the owner finally pulled the plug. I hate to think about the money that went down the drain on office space. Even without today’s video conferencing capabilities, we could have made do with substantially less if most of us had worked remotely.

Commercial real estate in NYC is in serious need of a big correction, as is residential. For decades, the real estate sector has preyed on us, destroying neighborhoods and small businesses.



My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: d4
Date: July 25, 2020 09:31AM
I may be in the minority here, but I do miss working from the office. I have an office with a window and door. So that might have something to do with it. I have coworkers I like. My commute allows me to spazz out for an hour each way to relax and listen to podcasts away from everyone. I like face to face chatting with coworkers on breaks. I like finding random surprise snacks in the pantry brought in for birthdays. And various occasions.

I work in the creative field. "Casual collaboration" is important. Not structured scheduled meetings or brainstorming. But popping by to say hello. And then while there, asking for opinions. And, "Oh hey that reminds me, check out this thing I was working on" moments.



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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 25, 2020 09:57AM
Quote
d4
I may be in the minority here, but I do miss working from the office. I have an office with a window and door. So that might have something to do with it. I have coworkers I like. My commute allows me to spazz out for an hour each way to relax and listen to podcasts away from everyone. I like face to face chatting with coworkers on breaks. I like finding random surprise snacks in the pantry brought in for birthdays. And various occasions.

I work in the creative field. "Casual collaboration" is important. Not structured scheduled meetings or brainstorming. But popping by to say hello. And then while there, asking for opinions. And, "Oh hey that reminds me, check out this thing I was working on" moments.

I, too, work better with in-person interactions. I now have a hybrid job where I WFO 1-3 days a week, somedays it's only half-day. I get a LOT done because my team makes stuff, work that cannot be done virtually. But the admin part of my job is now ALL virtual and will remain that way.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 25, 2020 10:28AM
Permanent WFH employee here. With solid IP service, a backdrop, lighting, and a collared shirt I'm ready to work.

Corporations may say it's about saving money on the lease, but overall it's about saving money in other ways. You can pay the person a bit less overall by not expending all that other stuff the lease brings.

WFH is still seen as a "privilege" as if you're always getting time off and taking advantage of the company. Um, no, you work as many or more hours at home, and I think they're slowly realizing it. And you're just as accountable for what you contribute, so corporate perceptions need to keep up.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: d4
Date: July 25, 2020 10:38AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
d4
I may be in the minority here, but I do miss working from the office. I have an office with a window and door. So that might have something to do with it. I have coworkers I like. My commute allows me to spazz out for an hour each way to relax and listen to podcasts away from everyone. I like face to face chatting with coworkers on breaks. I like finding random surprise snacks in the pantry brought in for birthdays. And various occasions.

I work in the creative field. "Casual collaboration" is important. Not structured scheduled meetings or brainstorming. But popping by to say hello. And then while there, asking for opinions. And, "Oh hey that reminds me, check out this thing I was working on" moments.

I, too, work better with in-person interactions. I now have a hybrid job where I WFO 1-3 days a week, somedays it's only half-day. I get a LOT done because my team makes stuff, work that cannot be done virtually. But the admin part of my job is now ALL virtual and will remain that way.

I could get aboard with that. 2 days in the office. 2 days at home. You appreciate the time more in both locales. See what I did there? ;) Yeah, since we are all in the experimenting mood, let's try the 4 day/40hr work week.



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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 25, 2020 10:40AM
Quote
tuqqer
Out of all of the possible changes that make take place in post-COVID life, this is the one I find most fascinating. I'm wondering of places like small town midwest will start to see an increase in people.

Needs decent internet to make this happen. I am in an affluent smaller midwest city with under 150k population. Our cable internet was really quite poor until a couple years ago.

Plenty of smaller cities with under 25Mbps as their WFH internet option.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 25, 2020 10:41AM
Quote
d4
Quote
sekker
Quote
d4
I may be in the minority here, but I do miss working from the office. I have an office with a window and door. So that might have something to do with it. I have coworkers I like. My commute allows me to spazz out for an hour each way to relax and listen to podcasts away from everyone. I like face to face chatting with coworkers on breaks. I like finding random surprise snacks in the pantry brought in for birthdays. And various occasions.

I work in the creative field. "Casual collaboration" is important. Not structured scheduled meetings or brainstorming. But popping by to say hello. And then while there, asking for opinions. And, "Oh hey that reminds me, check out this thing I was working on" moments.

I, too, work better with in-person interactions. I now have a hybrid job where I WFO 1-3 days a week, somedays it's only half-day. I get a LOT done because my team makes stuff, work that cannot be done virtually. But the admin part of my job is now ALL virtual and will remain that way.

I could get aboard with that. 2 days in the office. 2 days at home. You appreciate the time more in both locales. See what I did there? ;) Yeah, since we are all in the experimenting mood, let's try the 4 day/40hr work week.

I hear you. I recently accepted my 'stretch' assignment as a permanent role, meaning I wish I was working only 40 hours/week (and would love to be 4 days/week)... So far, the travel ban means I have far less wasted time on planes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 10:42AM by sekker.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 25, 2020 10:52AM
Quote
d4
...Yeah, since we are all in the experimenting mood, let's try the 4 day/40hr work week.

My company does a 9-80 workweek.

For 9 business days you work a 9 hour shift, if you take an hour for lunch. That's a 10-hr timespan overall that's "near" work ... but if you work from home as I do, it's less "time away from home" than if I had to commute. By the end of that second Thursday you've worked an "extra day."

Every-other Friday you automatically have OFF. You know what day to schedule doctor appts and so on, without having to ask off from work.

It's not perfect, as some people externally and internally are always contacting you on your Friday off. Monday mornings can therefore be busy. So the net effect is that meetings get loaded up Tues-Thurs, and work on big projects gets done Mondays and Fridays (maybe).
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: d4
Date: July 25, 2020 10:53AM
During the March NYC lockdown many friends and acquaintances with the means moved out of Manhattan and the boroughs to Long Island and Connecticut while working remotely.

Some friends of mine hightailed it out of here and began working remotely from Hawaii. Husband, wife and kids. The dog was left with friends. They are still paying $9,000 rent to their empty apartment.

We'll see what happens when school starts up again in a month.

When Hurricane Sandy hit NYC in 2008 knocking out power to lower Manhattan another friend bought a ticket to Madrid, Spain and worked remote from there. 12 years later him and his family are still there.



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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: tuqqer
Date: July 25, 2020 11:00AM
Great stories. Thanks for these examples.



M1 2020 Mac mini (16G 2T) Monterey 12.x Dual 25" Acer 1440p LCDs M1 2020 13" MBAir (256G 8G)
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 25, 2020 11:35AM
Quote
AllGold
Quote
davester
This practice is a leftover from the age of factory work.

Also from pre-computer-age office work, when everything was on paper.



Quote
davester
Perhaps some of that office space can be repurposed to housing.

Great idea!

It potentially could at great expense. Major plumbing upgrades for adequate hot water and providing addition bathrooms/kitchens. HVAC would also require upgrades to provide more localized controls. It's questionable whether building owners could recoup the cost of these upgrades, especially if other residential properties have availability.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 25, 2020 01:28PM
I must live in a different universe, because all of my friends who work from home go to a cafe or a park so that they are around other people. I sometimes do the same as any work i have is freelance.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 25, 2020 02:33PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
I must live in a different universe, because all of my friends who work from home go to a cafe or a park so that they are around other people. I sometimes do the same as any work i have is freelance.

Yes, creatives can do that. Former office drones cannot. We need to speak with people on the phone, on video conference --- with confidentiality --- and have it all look/sound like we're not in a coffee shop somewhere or at the beach.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 25, 2020 02:49PM
Quote
deckeda
Quote
mrbigstuff
I must live in a different universe, because all of my friends who work from home go to a cafe or a park so that they are around other people. I sometimes do the same as any work i have is freelance.

Yes, creatives can do that. Former office drones cannot. We need to speak with people on the phone, on video conference --- with confidentiality --- and have it all look/sound like we're not in a coffee shop somewhere or at the beach.

Partially. I think many still talk on the phone (hopefully not at the cafe). I talk to folks while walking the dog. I think the point I'm trying to make is that it works for a while and then you desire to be back among people. And cities are the most efficient way to do that.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 25, 2020 03:38PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
deckeda
Quote
mrbigstuff
I must live in a different universe, because all of my friends who work from home go to a cafe or a park so that they are around other people. I sometimes do the same as any work i have is freelance.

Yes, creatives can do that. Former office drones cannot. We need to speak with people on the phone, on video conference --- with confidentiality --- and have it all look/sound like we're not in a coffee shop somewhere or at the beach.

Partially. I think many still talk on the phone (hopefully not at the cafe). I talk to folks while walking the dog. I think the point I'm trying to make is that it works for a while and then you desire to be back among people. And cities are the most efficient way to do that.

I have a friend who runs a co-working space (WeWork had not gotten to our city yet). He thinks most of his customers have returned to avoid being at home with the kids...
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 25, 2020 07:45PM
Quote
tuqqer
Out of all of the possible changes that make take place in post-COVID life, this is the one I find most fascinating. I'm wondering of places like small town midwest will start to see an increase in people.

I've worked from home in my skivvies for over 15 years, like many of you, so the socio-economic-physio-psycho effect was barely a ripple here. But I suspect it's going to be one of the biggest changes in all this.

I'm not sure when it happened, but Winthrop Washington got a tap directly into the backbone on the internet a number of years ago. There are now lots of people permanently working off-site for countries in other states and countries. Some are code monkeys, other internet security consultants, designers, you name it. Fast, rock solid connection, and great lifestyle.



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The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 26, 2020 01:44PM
If employees can work from anywhere, it raises some interesting questions regarding salary.

The payscale for someone in a major city is far different than someone in rural America.

Median Salary in NYC is $58,000.
Median Salary in Harrisburg, PA is $35,000
---
Median Salary in San Francisco is $96,000
Median Salary in Tos, NM is $30,000

Median Salary in Chicago is $57,000
Meadian Salary in Milwaukee is $42,000

$400,000 house in Chicago


$400,000 house in Milwaukee


But you can work anywhere, so here is what $400,000 buys in my town


So do companies pay as if people are still living near the office or partially base salary on physical location?



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 26, 2020 06:01PM
Quote
Ombligo
If employees can work from anywhere, it raises some interesting questions regarding salary.

The payscale for someone in a major city is far different than someone in rural America.

Median Salary in NYC is $58,000.
Median Salary in Harrisburg, PA is $35,000
---
Median Salary in San Francisco is $96,000
Median Salary in Tos, NM is $30,000

Median Salary in Chicago is $57,000
Meadian Salary in Milwaukee is $42,000

$400,000 house in Chicago


$400,000 house in Milwaukee


But you can work anywhere, so here is what $400,000 buys in my town


So do companies pay as if people are still living near the office or partially base salary on physical location?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Work from home.. forever... Corporations planning on closing office spaces
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 26, 2020 09:04PM
Quote
Ombligo
If employees can work from anywhere, it raises some interesting questions regarding salary.

The payscale for someone in a major city is far different than someone in rural America.

Median Salary in NYC is $58,000.
Median Salary in Harrisburg, PA is $35,000
---
Median Salary in San Francisco is $96,000
Median Salary in Tos, NM is $30,000

Median Salary in Chicago is $57,000
Meadian Salary in Milwaukee is $42,000

$400,000 house in Chicago


$400,000 house in Milwaukee


But you can work anywhere, so here is what $400,000 buys in my town


So do companies pay as if people are still living near the office or partially base salary on physical location?

I can imagine that it would be based on in person requirements. Kind of like it is now.

As for what you can buy for a given price, it's what exists for entertainment when you leave that manse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2020 09:05PM by mrbigstuff.
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