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9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: August 29, 2020 08:16PM
I was looking for 9V batteries and stumbled across 600mAH Li-Ion rechargeables. I had no idea that was a thing. Ni-MH 9V rechargeables are only 175 or 200mAH and I've never considered them useful for much of anything.

Anyone use them (the Li-Ion)?



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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 29, 2020 08:53PM
Quote
AllGold
I was looking for 9V batteries and stumbled across 600mAH Li-Ion rechargeables. I had no idea that was a thing. Ni-MH 9V rechargeables are only 175 or 200mAH and I've never considered them useful for much of anything.

Anyone use them (the Li-Ion)?

I haven't used the Li-Ion, but I have used NiMH 9V rechargeables, which have been fine... I have a particular device that takes one, and I went with the NiMH's because that's what the manufacturer recommends.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: jonny
Date: August 29, 2020 09:00PM
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 29, 2020 09:24PM
Quote
jonny
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?

voltage.

NiMH is 1.2 V per cell.

9V alkaline are in fact 6 cells in series (1.5V nominal but 1.55-1.6 V when new, which makes a 9V new battery read a little over 9V). NiMH are rated at 1.2V per cell but read around 1.3-1.4 when fully charged, so a "9V" NiMH made of 6 ells would read around 7.8-8.4V which is too low for many devices.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: jonny
Date: August 29, 2020 11:22PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
jonny
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?

voltage.

NiMH is 1.2 V per cell.

9V alkaline are in fact 6 cells in series (1.5V nominal but 1.55-1.6 V when new, which makes a 9V new battery read a little over 9V). NiMH are rated at 1.2V per cell but read around 1.3-1.4 when fully charged, so a "9V" NiMH made of 6 ells would read around 7.8-8.4V which is too low for many devices.

Good to know!
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: Frank
Date: August 30, 2020 12:32AM
I use them in a couple of motion sensors (mailbox and driveway). They last a long time (months) between charges. I have used them for about three years with no problems.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: August 30, 2020 01:10AM
Quote
jonny
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?

In addition to the 3X capacity, I assumed, and Frank has graciously confirmed (thanks, Frank!), that Li-Ion has a much lower self-discharge rate. In other words, it holds its charge when not in use or under low current draw. Ni-MH is notorious for going dead while just sitting there not in use. They have reformulated much of the Ni-MH batteries--the LSD or Low Self-Discharge like the Eneloop and knock-offs--to be much better but I don't know if 9V Ni-MH are in that category.



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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 30, 2020 08:23AM
Quote
AllGold
Quote
jonny
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?

In addition to the 3X capacity, I assumed, and Frank has graciously confirmed (thanks, Frank!), that Li-Ion has a much lower self-discharge rate. In other words, it holds its charge when not in use or under low current draw. Ni-MH is notorious for going dead while just sitting there not in use. They have reformulated much of the Ni-MH batteries--the LSD or Low Self-Discharge like the Eneloop and knock-offs--to be much better but I don't know if 9V Ni-MH are in that category.

Yep, they are. The 9V NiMH's I use hold their charge REALLY well... not your father's NiMH's !




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2020 08:23AM by PeterB.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: August 30, 2020 01:44PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
AllGold
Quote
jonny
Fascinating. i’ve never noticed those either. Are there other advantages of lithium ion over NIMH?

In addition to the 3X capacity, I assumed, and Frank has graciously confirmed (thanks, Frank!), that Li-Ion has a much lower self-discharge rate. In other words, it holds its charge when not in use or under low current draw. Ni-MH is notorious for going dead while just sitting there not in use. They have reformulated much of the Ni-MH batteries--the LSD or Low Self-Discharge like the Eneloop and knock-offs--to be much better but I don't know if 9V Ni-MH are in that category.

Yep, they are. The 9V NiMH's I use hold their charge REALLY well... not your father's NiMH's !

Yes, we use the 200mAH LSD 9V NiMHs and they are very good. However, they are best for low or medium drain uses like smoke alarms, RC car controllers, handheld voltmeters, SPL meters.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 30, 2020 04:13PM
What brands do you all recommend? And some chargers? Thanks
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 30, 2020 04:19PM
The ones I bought were for a portable/cordless handheld pump-type device (something used in science to suck up/expel liquids). The brand was EBL, I believe, and I think they were 280 mAh NiMH's.

Edit: forgot to say, I got 'em super-cheap on eBay. So cheap that when they finally die, they'll have easily paid for themselves.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2020 05:10PM by PeterB.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 30, 2020 04:40PM
I was asking about Li-Ion. But good to have recommendations for NiMH too, thanks!
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: Frank
Date: August 30, 2020 05:05PM
This is what I bought at Amazon: EBL 6F22 charger with 4 Pack 600mAh 9V batteries
There are larger capacity batteries available as well.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: jonny
Date: August 30, 2020 06:18PM
Do Li-Ion take a special charger?
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: wave rider
Date: August 30, 2020 07:23PM
Wonder how those either of those 9V rechargeables would work in guitar/bass pedals?



=wr=
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 31, 2020 02:26AM
Quote
jonny
Do Li-Ion take a special charger?

Yes, or a universal charger that will detect which type of battery has been inserted into a charging bay and charge accordingly. Depending on the model, there are chargers that will handle NiCd, NiMH, LiIon, and other rechargeable battery chemistries.
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Re: 9V batteries - any experience with rechargeable Lithium-Ion?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 31, 2020 08:24PM
Quote
wave rider
Wonder how those either of those 9V rechargeables would work in guitar/bass pedals?

that is what I was wondering while reading this, too. I hate using up batteries on my old pedal, which I rarely use (and when I do, the battery is dead).
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