No I’m not in the market for a new vehicle, despite our two main drives getting long in the tooth.

“Honda Accord Loses Manual Transmission”

I realize some of you must endure stop-and-go city driving and/or do not know how to drive a car. I mean, a manual shift car. I am sorry for your loss. AND MINE, thanks for nothing!

There have been competitors over the years but the Accord remains the benchmark in the family sedan segment IMO. While I’m disappointed that they only released a 6-sp manual with V6 for two years (ours is a 2006, and no the coupes are not family sedans ... ) I would always consider the recent Sport models, 4cyl be damned.

I thought the 06-07 models were rare (3000-4000?) but the recent 6sp models are apparently even more so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2020 08:48AM by deckeda.

One of the drivers (ha) of my wanting a Honda Fit when it will be time for a new car (next year) is that I can get a recent used one with a Manual transmission. I kinda figure it will be the last manual transmission I own, as I tend to keep cars a while and I figure the next one after that would be electric.

My daughter learned how to drive a manual transmission. She's wanted to from the time when she first could drive, seeing that both mom and dad drove stick. She thought that was pretty cool. She'll be taking our SAAB 9-3 wagon when she goes off to college, and she's planning on adding this sticker to the car:

---

The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa

I learned how to drive a stick but its been a LONG time since I've done it with any regularity.

---

Quote
Sam3
My daughter learned how to drive a manual transmission. She's wanted to from the time when she first could drive, seeing that both mom and dad drove stick. She thought that was pretty cool. She'll be taking our SAAB 9-3 wagon when she goes off to college, and she's planning on adding this sticker to the car:

I do appreciate my one speed electric after, on occasion, driving these:



The above looks harder than it is. Now try it with two sticks in heavy urban traffic. I owned a two stick Dodge Colt and enjoyed the choices it offered.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2020 10:15AM by Speedy.

Yeah I like that sticker.

Our 17 yr old had a rough first couple of attempts until I took him to a parking lot and said, “You’re going to drive the car in 1st gear without using the gas pedal at all ...” just so that he’d learn how to use the clutch for starting and stopping. He’s still not as smooth as he should be but now he can do it without stalling while starting out, even stopped on an upslope at a stop sign. Oddly, he still has a tendency to forget to clutch when coming to a stop.

He knows about downshifting but not always WHEN he should do so, how to time it so that he’s at the right rev range to then move ahead rounding that intersection. More than once I’ve had to stop him from downshifting into first at like 20mph. Dude, you’re asking A LOT from the 1st gear synchro there! And if you let go of the clutch now we’d be tossed into the windshield!

Fun times.

Both my kids learned to drive stick (it's all we had until recently). The first time they had to drive an automatic, their question was "how do you even control this thing?"

---

--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.

I learned stick on a Chevette. Talk about unforgiving clutch. I stalled that thing so many times; lived in mortal fear of having to start on an uphill. Finally, one weekend my parents were out of town with the automatic, and I needed the stick to go see my girlfriend...that car was my best friend from then on.

A few months later, I got a chance to drive an Audi stick. The clutch was like butter, I would have caught on much quicker had I learned on that.

Back in the late 80's, I used to occasionally drive a deuce and a half.

IIRC, it had 5 gears, but it had a second stick with two positions, high and low, so you effectively had 10 gears.

Imagine in 20 years where most are using EVs...!

That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

---

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Back when I was 15 (no permit) my mom left the keys out for her manual Chevy Vega. Me and a buddy drove it around the block. Took me a while to make it around but I did it....

The kicker was that it was the first time I ever drove a stick and I was in 3rd gear all the way.

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

Quote
Acer
I learned stick on a Chevette. Talk about unforgiving clutch. I stalled that thing so many times; lived in mortal fear of having to start on an uphill. Finally, one weekend my parents were out of town with the automatic, and I needed the stick to go see my girlfriend...that car was my best friend from then on.

A few months later, I got a chance to drive an Audi stick. The clutch was like butter, I would have caught on much quicker had I learned on that.

YES! My sister had a 4-spd MT '76. I called it the 'Vette. Being a bicyclist and soccer player was fortunate for me, because that clutch felt like you were pushing 50 lbs or so. I despised that car. Although it was a freaking tank.

Honda makes the best MTs imo, very smooth. I saw that the very last new Accord MT was on sale at some US dealer a few months ago. Shame they won't be made in MT anymore.

I've never not had an MT in my garage. MTs are also safer in that you are less likely to be futzing with your phone because you're actually DRIVING. Hey, there's an idea. Long live the manuals!

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Bixby

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2020 12:09PM by sekker.

None of my family knows how to drive stick. It’s all I drove until i was married. My wife refused to learn. My fault.. I got a bit excited at the gear grinding.

My now gone 2006 Jetta 2.0T had a manual shifter that was smoother than any automatic I've ever driven. I currently have a 2016 GLI - automatic, so my wife can drive it also. Man, do I miss that 2006 2.0T. What a blast to drive!

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S. Pupp
My now gone 2006 Jetta 2.0T had a manual shifter that was smoother than any automatic I've ever driven. I currently have a 2016 GLI - automatic, so my wife can drive it also. Man, do I miss that 2006 2.0T. What a blast to drive!

My 2003 Saturn L series sedan was super slick to drive - as a stick. The automatic version of that car was terribly disappointing.

None compare to even the simplest EV - like a Volt, let alone something more like a Tesla.

Speedy's 20-gear transmission pattern placard is giving me the shifty willies, not in a good way - and I've been driving stick for 30 years.

Is that a semi shifting pattern? Yikes.

Quote
sekker
My 2003 Saturn L series sedan was super slick to drive - as a stick. The automatic version of that car was terribly disappointing.

Our 94 Saturn wagon had a very nice manual transmission. best among bargain cars I drove regularly as manuals, those being Chevette, Horizon, Corolla and Saturn.

I loved the short throw shifter on my 198? Prelude Si. But the car was not sturdy enough for the punishing (read: decrepit) New England roads, so that car didn't last too long.

---

And I recall in spring
The perfume that the air would bring
To the indolent town
Where the barkers call the moon down

Quote
sekker
Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.

I think that gap has narrowed in the past 8 years.

Quote
mattkime

Quote
sekker
Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.

I think that gap has narrowed in the past 8 years.

True. I drove a Subaru with its hybrid transmission, was almost as much fun to drive as a true stick.

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sekker

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Bixby

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.

Hmmm, 5 year-old article as your reference. Ok then. CVTs and modern auto transmissions typically offer equal if not better mileage than manuals.

Is it possible to easily get cars with automatic transmissions in Europe?

The last time I was there, in Germany in the late 90's, it was almost impossible to rent an automatic car. You had to reserve one well in advance, and you couldn't call up the rental place to extend your rental, because some other American would have that car reserved.

Quote
freeradical
Is it possible to easily get cars with automatic transmissions in Europe?

The last time I was there, in Germany in the late 90's, it was almost impossible to rent an automatic car. You had to reserve one well in advance, and you couldn't call up the rental place to extend your rental, because some other American would have that car reserved.

It's been a few years, but they were available, in far fewer numbers than manuals. On the flip side, I rented an awesome car by Ford that is not imported to the U.S. (and yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me that it was an American company): a diesel manual transmission tall compact quasi-SUV vehicle.

---

And I recall in spring
The perfume that the air would bring
To the indolent town
Where the barkers call the moon down

Quote
Bixby

Quote
sekker

Quote
Bixby

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.

Hmmm, 5 year-old article as your reference. Ok then. CVTs and modern auto transmissions typically offer equal if not better mileage than manuals.

Have a more recent reference? Most wisdom - and personal experience - is that sticks are more fuel efficient than automatic trannies. But I have not purchased any ICE recently.

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sekker

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Bixby

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sekker

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Bixby

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

Manuals tend to be better gas mileage than automatics. Language from CR: 'In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the potential benefits of shifting yourself. In our tests, we've found that in some cars a manual transmission can improve gas mileage by a significant 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.' [www.consumerreports.org].

I will add, that for many cars, the stick is more fun to drive IMHO unless you are using it to pull a load.

Hmmm, 5 year-old article as your reference. Ok then. CVTs and modern auto transmissions typically offer equal if not better mileage than manuals.

Have a more recent reference? Most wisdom - and personal experience - is that sticks are more fuel efficient than automatic trannies. But I have not purchased any ICE recently.

I’ve read a number of articles in recent years that stated ATs and especially CVTs can return better mileage than MTs.

---

It is what it is.

It really depends on the car and power profile of the engine. Most sports models from 2015 and later have automatics that have been computer profiled so that they accelerate faster (they shift faster and always at optimum RPM) and get mileage very close to a manual version.

---

In tha 360. MRF User Map

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
It really depends on the car and power profile of the engine. Most sports models from 2015 and later have automatics that have been computer profiled so that they accelerate faster (they shift faster and always at optimum RPM) and get mileage very close to a manual version.

Wow, took until 2015? I'd have thought fuel efficiency standards would have motivated using such approaches years ago. But I have not been following ICE car innovation closely.

I can drive a stick.

I drove a stick on and off, in military and civilian life.

I won't drive a stick unless I absolutely have to.

My bike is a 5-spd manual.

My next bike will be a DCT 6-speed.

If you enjoy driving a stick, enjoy.

But in truth, manuals are not better than sticks in a lot of ways.

In some ways maybe.

Better for the environment might be true, but it's a stretch.

A good stick driver can get better gas mileage out of a vehicle compared to similar vehicles equipped with older 3- and 4-speed transmissions.

But over the last many years, A/T have become far more sophisticated, with 5 and 6 speeds and more, offering not only much better performance, but better gas economy as well.

There's also adaptive AI that moves the shift points higher or lower depending one one's driving bent.

There are some driving conditions and environments where a stick has a significant edge for a typical passenger vehicle.

For 95% of drivers, and no doubt a good portion of stick drivers who believe they're superior drivers (as most do), a modern A/T will almost always give equal or better gas mileage and more efficient performance.

A daughter of my buddy went to school in Iowa and spent four winters there.

She told us of all the cars with Iowa plates stuck in the snow while she passed on by in here little 2-wheel drive car, A/T and CA plates.

When a group wanted to go somewhere, she was elected to drive, because she could, and better than a lot of the native Iowans (?) at her school.

A lot of the cars there were beat up (kids as drivers had something to do with that) but her's was in great shape until a hail storm her last winter.

The old saw about manuals being superior to A/T just isn't true anymore, and every day becomes closer moving from being a myth to an old wives tale.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

RAMd - bring your data, happy to see-to-believe.

But I think the next step in auto evolution are cars with NO trannies...

Quote
Bixby

Quote
M A V I C
That's a bummer. Manuals are better in a lot of ways, including better for the environment.

I love manuals, but how are they better for the environment? The cars that I've seen that have both manual and CVT, the CVT gets better mileage (if by just a little bit).

First, they last longer. Sadly, a lot of cars go to the junkyard when their transmissions die.

Next, they're easier to repair. So when they do need fixing, it takes less materials to fix and has fewer that need to be disposed. Eg, I talked to a shop about my last stick purchase and they said the transmission could go 150k with ease. The AT alternative was known to need work before 100k. And when it needed it, rather than few hundred bucks in parts to repair, it was a few thousand.

They are also a lot easier to get parts for. You can't get parts for quite a few ATs. Even if it's just a bearing that fails, you might only be able to buy a whole new transmission. Since the parts aren't available, you won't find rebuilt transmissions for many makes or models.

---

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Quote
sekker

Have a more recent reference? Most wisdom - and personal experience - is that sticks are more fuel efficient than automatic trannies. But I have not purchased any ICE recently.

Sure. Go to Chevrolet website and compare the Spark Activ Manual to Automatic. Go to Honda website and compare Honda Fit automatic to manual. Go to Mazda website and compare automatic Miata to manual Miata.

Quote
sekker
But I think the next step in auto evolution are cars with NO trannies...

You're absolutely right, because we've already gone from manual to 3 or 4-speed auto to 5- or 6- and even 8- and 9-speed auto to CVT (mated to a hybrid engine).

Still, I'm going to try to savor a manual tranny if I can, and hopefully even teach my kids to drive one (though that's years away).

My first car was a 4 speed Vega. I currently drive a 98 Honda Civic 5 speed. I love that car.
When we bought my wife’s Odyssey they had an immaculate used Civic Si 6 speed in the show room (Black with Black and Red interior). All I could do to walk away.

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Bixby

Quote
sekker
But I think the next step in auto evolution are cars with NO trannies...

You're absolutely right, because we've already gone from manual to 3 or 4-speed auto to 5- or 6- and even 8- and 9-speed auto to CVT (mated to a hybrid engine).

Still, I'm going to try to savor a manual tranny if I can, and hopefully even teach my kids to drive one (though that's years away).

We have a museum-piece - a Honda Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission. Both of our Millennials learned how to drive a stick. I'm pretty sure very few of their friends can.

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Bixby

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sekker

Have a more recent reference? Most wisdom - and personal experience - is that sticks are more fuel efficient than automatic trannies. But I have not purchased any ICE recently.

Sure. Go to Chevrolet website and compare the Spark Activ Manual to Automatic. Go to Honda website and compare Honda Fit automatic to manual. Go to Mazda website and compare automatic Miata to manual Miata.

Shall I start by going to the VW website?

I did a quick google search, and there really are not a lot of decent articles from independent sources since 2016. Keep in mind, the EPA estimates are also not very accurate as there are differences in efficiencies depending on driving conditions (highway vs city etc).

Anyway, apparently just over 1% of cars are sold in the use with sticks. So it's all moot.

Quote
sekker

Shall I start by going to the VW website?

I did a quick google search, and there really are not a lot of decent articles from independent sources since 2016. Keep in mind, the EPA estimates are also not very accurate as there are differences in efficiencies depending on driving conditions (highway vs city etc).

Anyway, apparently just over 1% of cars are sold in the use with sticks. So it's all moot.

Sure. VW Golf manual has combined rating of 31mpg vs 32 for the automatic.

I agree EPA estimates are not always accurate, but it's the 'standard' we have to compare all cars.

Quote
Speedy
,,,

I do appreciate my one speed electric after, on occasion, driving these:



The above looks harder than it is. Now try it with two sticks in heavy urban traffic. I owned a two stick Dodge Colt and enjoyed the choices it offered.

Is that fore real?

Quote
sekker

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
It really depends on the car and power profile of the engine. Most sports models from 2015 and later have automatics that have been computer profiled so that they accelerate faster (they shift faster and always at optimum RPM) and get mileage very close to a manual version.

Wow, took until 2015? I'd have thought fuel efficiency standards would have motivated using such approaches years ago. But I have not been following ICE car innovation closely.

My impression is it was not the overwhelming majority until around then. There were quite a few examples after the second generation of OBDII cars came out around 2002-2005 if the automatics had the same (or higher) number of gears as manuals. It really took until pretty much every car had accurate self-programmable emissions computer/system with long term reliability (MAF, digital fuel injection, and O₂ sensors). My mom's automatic 1996 Mercury Sable might have had OBDII with a MAF, but emissions reliability was a joke. It was lucky to get 22 mpg on the freeway after a new MAF and a full tune up.

---

In tha 360. MRF User Map

Bought a new car (Pontiac T1000; rebadged Chevette) when I was 21 with MT without really knowing how to drive it. Rough couple of weeks at first, reminiscent of Capt. Kirk's driving. But once I got it down, no problem. I even drove it across the country to San Francisco and navigated the terrain there with few issues.

Went to England 10 years later and rented a manual without knowing whether I could sit on the right side and shift with my left hand. But it was easy.

Had plans to go to Spain this past March and I had reserved a manual, driving one for the first time in 28 years. But the trip never happened.

Every one of my first 4 cars were manual. I hated it. I bought the best cars I could with the money I had. Just knowing there were automatic cars made me feel I was uselessly shifting like a sucka.

I've had mostly manual transmissions but I am OK with automatic too.

When learning in high school, we had two manual cars to choose from, an Opel Kadett and a VW bug. The Opel had a very narrow clutch engagement zone and was easy to stall. But it looked cooler than the Bug. The VW had a friendly clutch with wide engagement zone and was fun to drive.

When I broke my femur, I was thankful to have an automatic.

---

=wr=



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2020 01:46AM by wave rider.

I remember my dad trying to teach my mom to drive stick, when I was about 7 years old. He had a pretty good sized truck, bigger than a pickup, not sure exactly what you would call it. Anyway, she would have that thing hopping like a bunny. He finally gave up.

After my dad got rid of the truck, we never had anything but automatic transmissions, for obvious reasons. I wanted to learn how to drive a stick when I was in high school, so I got several very forgiving friends to teach me.

One had an old VW bug that had a throw of about a foot between gears, and the loosest transmission and clutch you could imaging. It was actually very forgiving to learn on.

Another friend had a little Fiat. It was pretty easy to drive and had a more normal transmission and clutch.

Third friend had a new Ford Pinto. The throw on his transmission was the shortest I think I have ever driven. Going from that VW to the Pinto was a challenge, and the clutch was stiff as hell.

My first manual transmission car was a mid 70's Honda Civic bought used. It was pretty easy to drive. Then had a Toyota Corolla, then a Mazda Miata. Husband had two Italian cars with manual transmissions, when we got married. He later upgraded one with another manual transmission car. One of those had a clutch like something I imagine you would find in a logging truck. It took a lot of leg power to get that thing engaged.

All the manual trannys are gone now, since I sold the Miata a couple of years ago. I did enjoy that little car.

---

Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Selling your Miata?! Sad news...

Automatics now get better mileage.

And shifting a manual becomes tiresome in stop-n-go city driving.

Hi everyone,

Lost of stuff about manual vs automatic transmissions that _used_ to be true but in reality are now obsolete.

Manual gets better gas mileage? Questionable at best and actually incorrect these days with the advent of modern automatics.

Manuals cost less? Not necessarily. Nowadays, for some vehicles, you pay extra for the privilege.

Manuals deter thieves? Maybe, maybe not. No actual proof that supports or refutes it.

[www.edmunds.com]

These days, in light of modern automatics and modern automobile tech, manuals are definitely a dying breed and only a particular type of consumer will be interested in them. This article from cars.com explains it well:

[www.cars.com]

Lots of sources on the net about this question.

And, yes, I know how to drive stick. I choose not to for many fo the reasons listed in those articles.

Robert

Quote
Bill in NC
And shifting a manual becomes tiresome in stop-n-go city driving.

Drove an MT for 26 years in L.A. and never had an issue with this.

---

It is what it is.

Quote
sekker
Selling your Miata?! Sad news...

I know. I hated to, but after we moved we only had a two car garage and I wanted to park my daily driver inside. Also, I didn’t drive it enough anymore to really justify keeping it, but I do miss it.

---

Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)