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Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 10, 2020 10:36PM
All tied to reducing thermal throttling.

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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: November 10, 2020 10:41PM
.....so those who need a good throttling.....won't be able to get it......???



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 10, 2020 10:56PM
Too funny
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: November 11, 2020 12:15AM
That is what I asked earlier today. There are a couple of other minor differences. In addition to the fan that allows higher CPU/GPU performance, the MBP has a brighter screen, higher power charger, touch bar sensor, and a USB-C Power Port.



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: mikebw
Date: November 11, 2020 09:08AM
Good to know that 16GB is the limit for the M1 and not some other reason, although I wonder where they got that information.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: November 11, 2020 09:19AM
.....not many are fan.....girling.....



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 11, 2020 10:42AM
Quote
mikebw
Good to know that 16GB is the limit for the M1 and not some other reason, although I wonder where they got that information.

I'm using modern Mac laptops for standard office / WFH functions, and there really is no difference going beyond 16GB except for the embedded security management software (which sucks up CPU and RAM). If you do not have such a computational tax - which is almost all consumers and students, the target audiences for these machines - 16GB is more than enough with the fast solid state drives.

I doubt going beyond 16GB would really help most users of these 13" laptops.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: mikebw
Date: November 11, 2020 11:22AM
For sure. Most people don't need more than 16GB RAM. Apple is clearly not targeting their pro market with the M1.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: November 11, 2020 11:58AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
That is what I asked earlier today. There are a couple of other minor differences. In addition to the fan that allows higher CPU/GPU performance, the MBP has a brighter screen, higher power charger, touch bar sensor, and a USB-C Power Port.

The base MBA has one of the GPU cores disabled.

...We're back at that "two ports is not a PRO feature-set" point again.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2020 12:00PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: numbered
Date: November 11, 2020 12:09PM
Quote
Sarcany
The base MBA has one of the GPU cores disabled.

I read somewhere that they were using binned chips with only 7 working cores to "improve" yields.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 11, 2020 12:10PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
That is what I asked earlier today. There are a couple of other minor differences. In addition to the fan that allows higher CPU/GPU performance, the MBP has a brighter screen, higher power charger, touch bar sensor, and a USB-C Power Port.

The base MBA has one of the GPU cores disabled.

...We're back at that "two ports is not a PRO feature-set" point again.

Just to clarify - there are two ports in both the M1 MBA and the 13" MBPR. That is not a major differentiator.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 11, 2020 12:11PM
Quote
numbered
Quote
Sarcany
The base MBA has one of the GPU cores disabled.

I read somewhere that they were using binned chips with only 7 working cores to "improve" yields.

That's really interesting. These are 5nm fab chips. I wonder what the yield rate is. If there is a good use for these poorer quality chips, that's smart of Apple.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: November 11, 2020 12:53PM
These are system-on-chip Macs. Almost everything except the SSD is integrated on the chip.

Memory is integrated, as are USB/Thunderbolt. Appears that the features of the T2 security chip are even incorporated into it now. So, the 8GB and 16GB models actually have different CPU-modules. (And now a techie won't have to worry about bringing a Mac to Apple to burn a new logic board and match it to his T2 chip after surgery because there's just one chip.)

The only-one-external-display limit on the MBP/MBA is a limit of the chip.

So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: hal
Date: November 11, 2020 04:16PM
Quote
Sarcany
So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.

does that mean that 3 displays is out of the question?
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 11, 2020 06:19PM
Quote
hal
Quote
Sarcany
So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.

does that mean that 3 displays is out of the question?

Should be able to use DsiplayLink tech for third monitor.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: jdc
Date: November 11, 2020 07:11PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
hal
Quote
Sarcany
So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.

does that mean that 3 displays is out of the question?

Should be able to use DsiplayLink tech for third monitor.

Or via USB port. Ran a 3rd 24" 1080 display from my 2010 iMac's USB 2 port no problem

Wonder if one of those multi port dongles will allow added displays.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: November 12, 2020 06:25AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
hal
Quote
Sarcany
So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.

does that mean that 3 displays is out of the question?

Should be able to use DsiplayLink tech for third monitor.

...But that eats CPU and needs a flaky driver that often only works for mirroring. Not a great solution.



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 12, 2020 08:47AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
Quote
hal
Quote
Sarcany
So, in that context, it's interesting that they got the HDMI port working on the Mac mini for dual-display support using both HDMI and one of the TB ports.

does that mean that 3 displays is out of the question?

Should be able to use DsiplayLink tech for third monitor.

...But that eats CPU and needs a flaky driver that often only works for mirroring. Not a great solution.

Not at all. DisplayLink is the tech that works via an external USB cable. I've used it to add third monitors to Macs, and a second monitor to Windows machines. I even have a USBC dock with this feature built-in that enables dual external displays from even a single port USBC MacBook. The main issue is delay in the refresh - not annoying when doing office work, but not so great for video.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: November 12, 2020 10:43AM
Quote
sekker
DisplayLink is the tech that works via an external USB cable...

Right. Hits the CPU instead of the GPU because it's not really a display-driver per se.

No GPU acceleration and everything else slows down for it.

And various macOS updates have broken the driver or limited its use to mirroring. Once, it took nearly a year for the official driver update to ship after one of these incidents.



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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 12, 2020 12:07PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
DisplayLink is the tech that works via an external USB cable...

Right. Hits the CPU instead of the GPU because it's not really a display-driver per se.

No GPU acceleration and everything else slows down for it.

And various macOS updates have broken the driver or limited its use to mirroring. Once, it took nearly a year for the official driver update to ship after one of these incidents.

The updates have been regular and supportive for some time now.

I am not saying this is the solution for everyone, but for most doing WFH projects, this is a fine solution to adding screen real estate such as an extra 1080P monitor.
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Re: Biggest difference in new Macs? A fan.
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: November 14, 2020 05:12PM
So going one step up on the MBA is CPU-equivalent to the base MBP...or does the fan on the MBP make a big difference in performance?

I use an ancient MBP and hate it when the fan spools up...so the one-step up MBA (with 512GB SSD) seems more attractive.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2020 05:13PM by Bill in NC.
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