advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: December 01, 2020 01:47PM
[erik-engheim.medium.com]

It's a pretty long write-up and quite technical so most of it went over my head, but interesting nonetheless, esp. for those of you who can understand everything the author is talking about



My music blog: [www.auditorymusings.net]


The Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs, Colorado



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2020 01:47PM by pinkoos.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: bhaveshp
Date: December 01, 2020 02:17PM
Thanks! Buddy & I were just wondering why Intel & AMD are so far behind.

The CPU game has been disrupted.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 01, 2020 02:45PM
Some of this is quite reminiscent of the original Amiga, or the Mac IIfx - heterogeneous CPUs dedicated to different key computer functions. In both cases, those hardware designs WERE faster but were also far too expensive for the consumer markets.

The M1 seems to have solved the cost function by SOC design at scale.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: December 01, 2020 02:54PM
Before reading, my guesses:

1. Apple has really been refining this chip design for more than a decade.
2. Combination of low power and high power cores
3. Tight OS/hardware integration.
4. Tight integration of CPU/GPU/RAM on SOC
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 01, 2020 03:02PM
Quote
bhaveshp
Thanks! Buddy & I were just wondering why Intel & AMD are so far behind.

The CPU game has been disrupted.

FLAWLESS VICTORY!



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: December 01, 2020 03:06PM
Nah, I missed it. Really good read, not quite over my head.

Quote
anonymouse1
Before reading, my guesses:

1. Apple has really been refining this chip design for more than a decade.
2. Combination of low power and high power cores
3. Tight OS/hardware integration.
4. Tight integration of CPU/GPU/RAM on SOC
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 01, 2020 03:59PM
Saw this headline today:

AWS engineer puts Windows 10 on Arm on Apple Mac M1 – and it thrashes Surface Pro X

Quote

Windows on an M1 got a single-core score of 1,288 and multi-core score of 5,685 whereas the Surface Pro X's scores were roughly 800 and 3,000 in those respective benchmarks. Per MSpoweruser, the Surface Pro X benchmark was made using the SQ2 Arm-based chip that was co-developed by Qualcomm and Microsoft for Microsoft's latest Surface Pro X computers.

Yikes. That’s (math...math) 61% faster on the M1 than on the latest Qualcomm/MSFT chip, likely optimized for Windows.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 01, 2020 06:35PM
Quote
pdq
Saw this headline today:

AWS engineer puts Windows 10 on Arm on Apple Mac M1 – and it thrashes Surface Pro X

Quote

Windows on an M1 got a single-core score of 1,288 and multi-core score of 5,685 whereas the Surface Pro X's scores were roughly 800 and 3,000 in those respective benchmarks. Per MSpoweruser, the Surface Pro X benchmark was made using the SQ2 Arm-based chip that was co-developed by Qualcomm and Microsoft for Microsoft's latest Surface Pro X computers.

Yikes. That’s (math...math) 61% faster on the M1 than on the latest Qualcomm/MSFT chip, likely optimized for Windows.

Out of nowhere (or rather a number of acquisitions and R&D) Apple has just completely blown by every competitor in one single product release. Makes you wonder who was the brainchild of this idea. It obviously took years and years of careful planning, development, design, and production to be able to pull this off.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: December 01, 2020 07:41PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
pdq
Saw this headline today:

AWS engineer puts Windows 10 on Arm on Apple Mac M1 – and it thrashes Surface Pro X

Quote

Windows on an M1 got a single-core score of 1,288 and multi-core score of 5,685 whereas the Surface Pro X's scores were roughly 800 and 3,000 in those respective benchmarks. Per MSpoweruser, the Surface Pro X benchmark was made using the SQ2 Arm-based chip that was co-developed by Qualcomm and Microsoft for Microsoft's latest Surface Pro X computers.

Yikes. That’s (math...math) 61% faster on the M1 than on the latest Qualcomm/MSFT chip, likely optimized for Windows.


Out of nowhere (or rather a number of acquisitions and R&D) Apple has just completely blown by every competitor in one single product release. Makes you wonder who was the brainchild of this idea. It obviously took years and years of careful planning, development, design, and production to be able to pull this off.

It was probably Steve Jobs that pushed this.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 01, 2020 10:11PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
pdq
Saw this headline today:

AWS engineer puts Windows 10 on Arm on Apple Mac M1 – and it thrashes Surface Pro X

Quote

Windows on an M1 got a single-core score of 1,288 and multi-core score of 5,685 whereas the Surface Pro X's scores were roughly 800 and 3,000 in those respective benchmarks. Per MSpoweruser, the Surface Pro X benchmark was made using the SQ2 Arm-based chip that was co-developed by Qualcomm and Microsoft for Microsoft's latest Surface Pro X computers.

Yikes. That’s (math...math) 61% faster on the M1 than on the latest Qualcomm/MSFT chip, likely optimized for Windows.


Out of nowhere (or rather a number of acquisitions and R&D) Apple has just completely blown by every competitor in one single product release. Makes you wonder who was the brainchild of this idea. It obviously took years and years of careful planning, development, design, and production to be able to pull this off.

It was probably Steve Jobs that pushed this.

Could very well have been. They bought PA Semi in 2008. That is one heck of a long game.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 02, 2020 01:32AM
The article seems to gloss over a couple of important points. One, is that Apple and the hardware/software engineers at AIM (Apple/IBM/Motorola alliance) had a lot of prior experience with implementing a RISC ISA. Two, is that Apple worked very hard to remove an abstraction layer when writing code for the iPhone. I don't know exactly how it should be described (if they combined machine and assembly, or combined assembly and HLL) but they removed an abstraction layer and that can speed up execution by over 50%.

AMD just announced a feature where the CPU and GPU can directly share memory like the Unified Memory on the Apple M1 SoC. It will take a while for M$ and app/game developers to take advantage of it.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 02, 2020 02:40AM
So.... it's magic, right?



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 02, 2020 02:41AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
pdq
Saw this headline today:

AWS engineer puts Windows 10 on Arm on Apple Mac M1 – and it thrashes Surface Pro X

Quote

Windows on an M1 got a single-core score of 1,288 and multi-core score of 5,685 whereas the Surface Pro X's scores were roughly 800 and 3,000 in those respective benchmarks. Per MSpoweruser, the Surface Pro X benchmark was made using the SQ2 Arm-based chip that was co-developed by Qualcomm and Microsoft for Microsoft's latest Surface Pro X computers.

Yikes. That’s (math...math) 61% faster on the M1 than on the latest Qualcomm/MSFT chip, likely optimized for Windows.


Out of nowhere (or rather a number of acquisitions and R&D) Apple has just completely blown by every competitor in one single product release. Makes you wonder who was the brainchild of this idea. It obviously took years and years of careful planning, development, design, and production to be able to pull this off.

It was probably Steve Jobs that pushed this.

Could very well have been. They bought PA Semi in 2008. That is one heck of a long game.

Far more likely they bought it to advance iPhone/iPad processor development.



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 02, 2020 07:54AM
Apple’s original long game was to dump the Mac for the iPad. But when it was clear the Mac had a long tail - and the iPad wasn’t going to be a true developer environment for years to come - they flipped to plan C.

Plan B was counting on Intel to make competitive Mac processors. Apple ended this plan when Intel couldn’t deliver 10nm chips when Apple was shipping 7nm A-series chips. The writing was on the wall.

Plan C is now owning the Mac as a real future for Apple.

I am excited by this possibility. The first new energy for my favorite digital tool since the launch of Intel Macs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2020 07:55AM by sekker.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: tuqqer
Date: December 02, 2020 07:58AM
My explanation for the increase speed: shorter wires inside.



M1 2020 Mac mini (16G 2T) Ventura 13.x Dual 25" Acer 1440p LCDs M1 2020 13" MBAir (256G 8G)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 02, 2020 12:38PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Out of nowhere (or rather a number of acquisitions and R&D) Apple has just completely blown by every competitor in one single product release. Makes you wonder who was the brainchild of this idea. It obviously took years and years of careful planning, development, design, and production to be able to pull this off.

It is not one single release. Their first 64 bit CPU was the iPhone 5S with the A7 in September 2013. It was about this time that Intel had been failing for a couple of years to get a true 64 bit mobile processor. Their first real semi-competitive product was the Core M in the 12 inch Macbook in march 2015.

In a quick look at Geekbench 5 results, the A12x scores 1116 at 2.5 GHz (446 per GHz), the M1 scores 1640 at 3.2 GHz (512 per GHz). This is a 15% improvement per clock. It is very good but some of the previous generations had very similar increases IIRC.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Explainer on why the M1 is so fast
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 03, 2020 09:34AM
Quote
tuqqer
My explanation for the increase speed: shorter wires inside.

Don’t know if you’re being sarcastic, but it’s true; when you’re talking about a CPU going at 3 GHz, light (or electronic signals) can only travel a few inches per CPU cycle; it’s my understanding that’s one of the reasons why Apple is putting the RAM on the same package as the M1 chip rather than across the motherboard somewhere.

If (and/or when) the clock speed race resumes, I would guess they might have to put the RAM on the same die.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 130
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020