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@#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 13, 2020 11:17PM
This has NOT been a great Apple weekend for me.

Finally got around to setting up the new M1 mini on Saturday - or rather, I tried to set it up. Should be pretty simple, right? The only thing in the friggin' box with the mini is a power cord, after all!

Unboxed the mini, set it up, plugged it it, used a high-speed HDMI-to-DVI cable to connect my work 1080p display to the HDMI port, plugged in my keyboard and mouse, turned it on, and...

...nothing.

Or rather, nothing but static on the display. Apparently there's something about the video hookup that's not working right. This is the monitor I use for work every day, so I know there's nothing wrong with it. I'm guessing the 1080p might be the problem.

So I think "Hey! I just need a new monitor to get this to work!" No biggie, since I need to purchase a new monitor to use with the mini anyway. The Dell U2720Q I ordered two weeks ago from B&H is still on backorder with no indication when, if ever, that status might change.

So I think "Hey! I'll just choose a different display to buy!" After doing some research, I settle on the Dell S2721QS display. Trying to find an online vendor that has them in stock doesn't go so well, though. They are out of stock EVERYWHERE - even at Dell's website. As luck would have it, though, the (relatively) local Microcenter has the display in stock!

So I think "Hey! I'll just drive over and pick up a unit, bring it back, plug it into the new M1 and I'll be good to go!" So this morning I drive to the local Microcenter, excited to soon have my new mini up and running. Now, when I call this the "local" Microcenter, that is relatively speaking - it is a 40 minute drive from my home to the store. No biggie, though, I figure - a sunny Sunday morning is a great time for a drive. Traffic's typically not too bad and I'll be back home with my new display before I know it.

Except... not. I make the drive to Microcenter, where I learn that due to the new COVID retail restrictions I need to "check in" with a store rep and then wait a minimum of ONE AND ONE HALF HOURS before I can even step foot into the store!

Well, there's no way I'm waiting that long just to walk into a store - I figure I'll just go back home, order the display online, and wait the few extra days before it arrives. So I drive the forty minutes BACK to my home. As soon as I get home, I go to order the display. Click the bookmark for the display I saved, look for the "Add to Cart" button...

...but what I find instead is text telling me that these are "available in-store only."

@#$%&.

So I guess I'm driving back over tomorrow night after work to pick up a new display. This time I'll be a little smarter with my approach: Before leaving I will call the store to a) verify that there are, in fact, units in stock, and b) check in before starting out on my drive. Assuming all works out OK, I should be able to walk right into the store as soon as I arrive.

So, a few hours of my Sunday wasted, but I... guess?... I learned a couple of things, so it wasn't a total waste?

But that was just my first Apple snafu this weekend.

I recently purchased the Beatles CD box set but hadn't gotten around to ripping the CDs yet. Well, I figured I'd spend some time this evening getting that done.

NOT.

I insert the first disc into my external DVD drive and... nothing. Now, the drive's getting on in years and I figure maybe it's given up the ghost. It only ever gets used for ripping CDs to my music server, so after a moment I decide it's probably something besides a failed drive. This time I spend a few moments thinking about the problem... and I soon come to realize that the only thing that has changed on my Mac since the last time I successfully used the drive is an OS upgrade from Sierra to Mojave.

So I research whether there is a problem with Mojave failing to recognize external burners... and of course there is! All sorts of threads on the Apple boards about this problem but no solutions, as far as I can tell. This bug manifested itself beginning with v10.14.0 of the OS - we are up to 10.14.6 now with no fix.

@#$%& you, Apple.

So here I sit, unable to get ANY of the work I wanted to complete this weekend done because Apple computers no longer "just work."

@#$%& Apple.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 13, 2020 11:18PM
P.S. If anybody has any idea how to resolve the Mojave inability to recognize external burners, I would be most appreciative if you could share your knowledge.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: December 13, 2020 11:25PM
If you’re getting static , that’s weird. A blank screen I could understand.

Did you try a diffferent cable? Restarting? Restarting shift key down? reinserting the video cable at both ends? Confirming the monitor still works? I know it’s all a bit voodoo, bu it’s something to try, anyway....
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 13, 2020 11:30PM
Quote
anonymouse1
If you’re getting static , that’s weird. A blank screen I could understand.

Did you try a diffferent cable? Restarting? Restarting shift key down? reinserting the video cable at both ends? Confirming the monitor still works? I know it’s all a bit voodoo, bu it’s something to try, anyway....

The cable is brand new - I purchased it just for this task. It is a Monoprice cable, so I know it's not some cheapie knockoff piece of crap.

Restarting? Of course, three or four times.

Restarting shift key down? No. Given how long it took my iMac to start up in safe mode tonight, though, I'm in no hurry to try it on the mini. Besides, I could hear the mini trying to walk me through the setup process, so I don't think there's a problem with the computer itself.

Reinserting the cable at both ends? Of course.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 13, 2020 11:34PM
Quote
anonymouse1
If you’re getting static , that’s weird. A blank screen I could understand.

Some displays will show "static" when they aren't getting a signal. Not good ones.

I use it as a shorthand for "garbage, not worth my money."

...Monoprice is NOT a good cable brand. They're just cheap.



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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: December 13, 2020 11:39PM
I'd second this line of trouble shooting.... have you been able to test that cable with another device, to confirm it's all good? That is adapting HDMI to DVI fwiw - more to go wrong than a straight up connecting cable.

It could be the Mac.... but decent probability it's the cable or an interaction of that adapter with the M1.

Can you test that HDMI to DVI on another device like a DVD, Blu-ray player , Xbox, Playstation with HDMI out?

It is always frustrating when things don't work as they should be expected to... having spent the better part of the last 4 hours doing some overdue elimination of some home network gremlins, I can share that first hand.

Hope you get to the core of the issue with the setup you have and soon enjoy that M1 Mac.
Quote
anonymouse1
If you’re getting static , that’s weird. A blank screen I could understand.

Did you try a diffferent cable? Restarting? Restarting shift key down? reinserting the video cable at both ends? Confirming the monitor still works? I know it’s all a bit voodoo, bu it’s something to try, anyway....



OWC Larry
Other World Computing
[www.macsales.com]
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: AllGold
Date: December 13, 2020 11:41PM
1) Just because the cable is new doesn't mean it's "good"/working. (There is also the possibility of a compatibility problem.)

2) Can you order the monitor for curbside pickup at Microcenter?



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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 14, 2020 12:01AM
Have you tried a regular TV with HDMI on each end? It would not be the first time a recent Mac choked on driving a display using a cable with different connectors on each end.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 14, 2020 02:21AM
This is the cable I used - no adapter involved: [www.monoprice.com]

Quote
AllGold
1) Just because the cable is new doesn't mean it's "good"/working. (There is also the possibility of a compatibility problem.)

2) Can you order the monitor for curbside pickup at Microcenter?

1) True. The display I end up using with the mini will have HDMI in, so in the end whether this cable works is moot. It just led to an exercise in frustration, which is always the last thing anyone wants.

2) I can’t order the display online at all.

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Have you tried a regular TV with HDMI on each end?

I’ll be doing that with the new display tomorrow.

Your question got me thinking, though. My work laptop has an HDMI-out port (the docking station I use it with has DisplayPort out, hence the need for the new cable) — a moment ago I undocked the laptop, reattached the cable to the display, plugged it into the HDMI-out port on the laptop... and it worked perfectly. There’s nothing wrong with the cable.

EDIT: Disconnected the laptop and reconnected the mini — nada. Not even static this time — just a black screen. We’ll see how it goes with the new display tomorrow.

EDIT #2: OK, couldn’t wait until tomorrow. The spare HDMI ports on my 4K TV are readily accessible and I have a spare 4K HDMI cable lying around, so I hooked the mini up to my TV and it worked just fine — looked amazing, in fact. So the mini either doesn’t like that particular display or that particular cable. Either way, the problem will be moot with the new display.



It is what it is.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 02:52AM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2020 04:21AM
The most important thing is your Sunday, setting up your new iron was spoiled. You don't ask for much. You just wanted to be able to do that.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 14, 2020 06:00AM
sorry. I understand the frustration.

Maybe the M1 does not like displays with DVI connections? copy right protection and such non-sense? I had this a few weeks ago with a display, I got the message that the DP port does not support HDCP and one display would not work for Netflix.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 14, 2020 06:02AM
yeah, many people have the exact same issue.

[forums.macrumors.com]
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 14, 2020 06:06AM
N-OS,

Seems to me, your issues aren't with Apple. It's with other products. Monitor? Sounds like a cable problem, not an Apple problem.

External optical drive? No issues with using external optical drives with either of my macs. One is an LG model connected via USB. The other is an old frankendrive connected via a firewire to Thunderbolt adapter (or something like that).

Both machines are running Mojave. Makes me wonder if the issue is affecting certain brands and models of drives since I've not experienced any problems with either of the external optical drives on my iMacs.

Robert
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 14, 2020 06:24AM
Quote
space-time
yeah, many people have the exact same issue.

[forums.macrumors.com]

This is not a good look, Apple. HDMI to DVI is going to be a relatively common use case for a mini.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: December 14, 2020 07:37AM
...Monoprice is NOT a good cable brand. They're just cheap.
Yep, just another PRC made bulk cable badged for the reseller.
No better than any of the other cheap cables sold by Amz, BB, Microcenter,
Newegg, and dozens of other retailers.
If you can find them you could buy Belden made cables, but you would
pay dearly for same.



39°36'17"N 75°44'43"W

DuckDuckGo
The search engine that doesn't track you.

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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 14, 2020 07:54AM
I’m going to defend Monoprice a bit. I’ve found their cables to be uniformly good and with a lifetime warranty that comes with great service. Their lightning cables are far better than Apple’s in quality and durability for example. They stand by their products, a major step above all of the other vendors linked. And I cannot think of a single monoprice cable that’s been DOA in 20 years of using them.

From the macrumors link, this is not a cable issue but likely something tied to the Apple hack adding HDMI to the M1 mini.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 14, 2020 08:45AM
Leader.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: decay
Date: December 14, 2020 09:07AM
Quote
Robert M
N-OS,

Seems to me, your issues aren't with Apple. It's with other products. Monitor? Sounds like a cable problem, not an Apple problem.

External optical drive? No issues with using external optical drives with either of my macs. One is an LG model connected via USB. The other is an old frankendrive connected via a firewire to Thunderbolt adapter (or something like that).

Both machines are running Mojave. Makes me wonder if the issue is affecting certain brands and models of drives since I've not experienced any problems with either of the external optical drives on my iMacs.

Robert

To take a wider look at this: yes, that's correct on the surface.

Can we buy Apple branded display cables?

Apple products should have better compatibility with third-party hardware, especially when it's not available from them.

An Apple external DVD drive with Apple adapter is $98 plus tax. Because Apple removed them from their computers.

When other people have problems with hardware, it's easy to say "it works on my setup." That's irrelevant and anecdotal evidence.

It's super-frustrating when setting up a new Apple product and it fails to work with existing hardware. The Microsoft store issues have nothing to do with Apple specifically, but played into this scenario. Same with the websites and supply of hardware.

I suppose Apple expects us to have their third party products on hand, or an Apple store nearby to go buy their products at the drop of a hat.



---
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Beam Me Up Scotty
Date: December 14, 2020 09:28AM
I shall repeat my usual saying to those on the leading edge:

The pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs.

Good luck with your issues,
D & C
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 14, 2020 09:41AM
Quote
sekker
I’m going to defend Monoprice a bit. I’ve found their cables to be uniformly good and with a lifetime warranty that comes with great service. Their lightning cables are far better than Apple’s in quality and durability for example...

Most of Monoprice's cables are not certified.

Buying uncertified Lightning cables is asking for trouble.



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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 14, 2020 09:45AM
Decay,

I have two distinctly different drives that are dandy under Mojave. One is an old Pioneer mechanisms connected via a thunderbolt to firewire adapter. The other is a fairly recent LG model.

I wouldn't say mentioning these devices working under Mojave is irrelevant and anecdotal. Possibly irrelevant if N-OS doesn't have the same models. Confirmed working. Definitely not anecdotal as far as I'm concerned. Just used one of them to copy CDs with medical data for my father.

As much as it is on Apple to try and make its products compatible with everyone else's products, it's also on the user to ensure he/she confirms hardware compatibility prior to making the purchase.

Robert
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 14, 2020 10:15AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
I’m going to defend Monoprice a bit. I’ve found their cables to be uniformly good and with a lifetime warranty that comes with great service. Their lightning cables are far better than Apple’s in quality and durability for example...

Most of Monoprice's cables are not certified.

Buying uncertified Lightning cables is asking for trouble.

I own plenty of monoprice certified Lightning cables. I have not purchased many recently as my older ones work fine. I did have two fail, but monoprice readily replaced.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 14, 2020 12:02PM
Quote
sekker
I’m going to defend Monoprice a bit. I’ve found their cables to be uniformly good and with a lifetime warranty that comes with great service. Their lightning cables are far better than Apple’s in quality and durability for example. They stand by their products, a major step above all of the other vendors linked. And I cannot think of a single monoprice cable that’s been DOA in 20 years of using them.

Monoprice's track record and the number of reviewers who recommend its products speaks for itself - no need for me to defend them.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 14, 2020 12:06PM
Quote
Robert M
As much as it is on Apple to try and make its products compatible with everyone else's products, it's also on the user to ensure he/she confirms hardware compatibility prior to making the purchase.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned I have been using this particular drive with my various Macs FOR YEARS with no previous problems - close to ten years would be my guess, if not longer.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: December 14, 2020 01:12PM
I have many of the exact Monoprice cables that N-OS X-tasy! is using, 2 in use right now at home, another 3 in use in the now-rarely used office. It's almost certainly not the cable, especially considering the reports online.

Edit: The only complaint I have about them is that the stupid manetic chokes are so damn huge that they don't pass through the holes in Dell monitor stands, so they just have to hang down the back with a messier look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 01:13PM by Lew Zealand.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 14, 2020 01:18PM
Thanks, Lew. I eliminated the cable as the culprit late last night.

Don't know which Dell monitor you're referring to, but the magnetic cores on the cable I have are way more than small enough to pass through the hole on the Dell monitor I'm looking at.



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 14, 2020 01:38PM
Quote
AllGold
2) Can you order the monitor for curbside pickup at Microcenter?

Hey, turns out I was wrong about this - monitor is on order and scheduled for pickup this evening! WOO HOO!



It is what it is.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 14, 2020 08:27PM
While I understand your frustration, it seems like most of your troubles are with non-Apple gear.

Not to say that’s somehow verboten - I use lots of non-Apple peripheral stuff myself - but I don’t know if it’s realistic to expect Apple to work perfectly with every non-Apple product out there.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 14, 2020 11:25PM
Quote
pdq
While I understand your frustration, it seems like most of your troubles are with non-Apple gear.

Not to say that’s somehow verboten - I use lots of non-Apple peripheral stuff myself - but I don’t know if it’s realistic to expect Apple to work perfectly with every non-Apple product out there.

Apple only sells a single monitor - the 6k beast. How is it unreasonable for someone to expect a mini to work with a non-Apple monitor?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 11:26PM by sekker.
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Re: @#$%& Apple (LONG RANT)
Posted by: raz
Date: December 15, 2020 10:57AM
For what its worth ...

I had a similar problem with my 2018 Mini. One of the two monitors would only show static when connected to the USBC port. It did work (*) when I switched to HDMI.

(*) until the update to (some version), that monitor would not wake from restart - sleep was fine. I needed to plug/unplug the cable to get it recognized. Works fine, now.



--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.
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