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Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 11, 2021 01:05PM
... they're a real problem for someone like me who has IBS.

I've read lots of ways to try to prepare them to reduce the gas -- which is especially problematic for someone who has IBS. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of buying a very large bag of dried chickpeas, which I have already used in my Instant Pot, with delicious results -- but unfortunately also very unpleasant GI side effects.

I'm wondering if there isn't some other way to completely remove the offending polysaccharides. Soaking the beans is supposed to help, and I'm sure it does, but it didn't really solve the problem for me. I'm thinking maybe to take the dry beans, blend/grind them to a powder, THEN add the water ... so as to really remove the polysaccharides ... the problem is then how to get rid of the water and keep the powder.

If anyone's curious, here's what I'd like to try next, in terms of using them in a recipe: [www.ambitiouskitchen.com]

I'm also wondering if it might help to add enzymes to the chickpeas while soaking or cooking ... I take one of those digestive enzyme type supplements when I eat stuff like this, to try to help with the digestive issues, but again it didn't help much in this case.




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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 11, 2021 01:20PM
I assume you have tried Bean-O?



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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 11, 2021 01:54PM
Quote
Ombligo
I assume you have tried Bean-O?

Yup ... that's basically one of the ingredients in the enzyme supplement I mentioned. Beano is alpha-galactosidase. [en.wikipedia.org] ... the supplement I use is Zygest 13, which also has the same enzyme plus many others. [www.puritan.com]

Edit: the wiki I just posted for alpha-galactosidase says that the enzyme temperature optimum is 55oC, which is again making me think to maybe add the enzyme to the beans and slow/pressure cook, rather than soaking.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2021 02:02PM by PeterB.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: JoeH
Date: February 11, 2021 02:25PM
I have a moderate case of IBS myself. For baked beans I find those that have been cooked longer, the beans are a bit mushy in texture after long slow cooking in an oven, give me few issues.

P.S. Most of the "baked" beans on the market are what used to be considered "pot beans" here in New England. Cooked in a pot on a stove burner, just until they have boiled and the beans just barely tender. Some companies will the run them through an oven quickly to get the "oven baked" bit to label them with.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: btfc
Date: February 11, 2021 02:59PM
How long did you soak?

Have you thought about Hummus?
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 11, 2021 03:17PM
I have IBS and I eat all that stuff anyway. It's too good for us to not eat it. I deal with the bloat by eating some ginger or fennel. Sometimes even a pickle (the salty not sweet variety) works. But it still happens.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: Janit
Date: February 11, 2021 04:29PM
Treating this as a matter of biochemistry I see the following issues:

1) How effective is soaking at leaching out the polysaccharides? Is there a better way to do this?

2) How much maceration is necessary to get effective enzymatic digestion? Is it enough to cook until soft, and then incubate at 55 degrees with alpha-galactosidase for some time, or is it better to puree and then incubate? Are other enzymes also necessary to digest the polysaccharides?

3) Is there an easy way to assay the level of polysaccharides remaining in the chick peas after preparation? This might also make it possible to quantify what level of polysaccharides your gut can tolerate.

This sounds like a perfect pandemic project if you are missing the lab. And the results would surely qualify for submission to the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

Another approach would be to breed or engineer gasless chickpeas.

Finally, I wonder if it would be possible to brew a chickpea beer, thereby converting all those nasty polysaccharides into ethanol? smiley-excited001



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2021 04:33PM by Janit.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 11, 2021 04:44PM
Quote
btfc
How long did you soak?

Have you thought about Hummus?

Soaked overnight. And I think about hummus ALL the TIME. Dammit! Now you've got me wanting to make some. yum smiley

Quote
Janit
Treating this as a matter of biochemistry I see the following issues:

1) How effective is soaking at leaching out the polysaccharides? Is there a better way to do this?

2) How much maceration is necessary to get effective enzymatic digestion? Is it enough to cook until soft, and then incubate at 55 degrees with alpha-galactosidase for some time, or is it better to puree and then incubate? Are other enzymes also necessary to digest the polysaccharides?

3) Is there an easy way to assay the level of polysaccharides remaining in the chick peas after preparation? This might also make it possible to quantify what level of polysaccharides your gut can tolerate.

This sounds like a perfect pandemic project if you are missing the lab. And the results would surely qualify for submission to the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

Another approach would be to breed or engineer gasless chickpeassmiley-excited001

Yep... I was thinking about this from the biochem perspective too. I did soaks where I was replacing the water fairly frequently (this is the recommended method from the USDA), but the problem -- as I see it -- is that you could still have a lot of the oligosaccharide hiding inside the intact beans. That's why I was thinking about grinding them up, THEN soaking.

And soaking/cooking at the higher temp, using an enzyme, might do it... since the enzyme is optimal at 55oC. The Zygest-13 supplement I posted also has hemicellulase enzyme, which may work on these damned oligosaccharides.

And breeding or developing gasless legumes would be pretty cool and not too hard, now that we can all be doing CRISPR at home. smiley-excited001




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: Janit
Date: February 11, 2021 05:06PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
btfc
How long did you soak?

Have you thought about Hummus?

Soaked overnight. And I think about hummus ALL the TIME. Dammit! Now you've got me wanting to make some. yum smiley

Quote
Janit
Treating this as a matter of biochemistry I see the following issues:

1) How effective is soaking at leaching out the polysaccharides? Is there a better way to do this?

2) How much maceration is necessary to get effective enzymatic digestion? Is it enough to cook until soft, and then incubate at 55 degrees with alpha-galactosidase for some time, or is it better to puree and then incubate? Are other enzymes also necessary to digest the polysaccharides?

3) Is there an easy way to assay the level of polysaccharides remaining in the chick peas after preparation? This might also make it possible to quantify what level of polysaccharides your gut can tolerate.

This sounds like a perfect pandemic project if you are missing the lab. And the results would surely qualify for submission to the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

Another approach would be to breed or engineer gasless chickpeassmiley-excited001

Yep... I was thinking about this from the biochem perspective too. I did soaks where I was replacing the water fairly frequently (this is the recommended method from the USDA), but the problem -- as I see it -- is that you could still have a lot of the oligosaccharide hiding inside the intact beans. That's why I was thinking about grinding them up, THEN soaking.

And soaking/cooking at the higher temp, using an enzyme, might do it... since the enzyme is optimal at 55oC. The Zygest-13 supplement I posted also has hemicellulase enzyme, which may work on these damned oligosaccharides.

And breeding or developing gasless legumes would be pretty cool and not too hard, now that we can all be doing CRISPR at home. smiley-excited001

Ah, you answered before I made my final edit:

Finally, I wonder if it would be possible to brew a chickpea beer, thereby converting all those nasty polysaccharides into ethanol?
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: kledo
Date: February 11, 2021 05:50PM
It's been done:
Hummus beer
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 11, 2021 05:52PM
Quote
Janit
Quote
PeterB
Quote
btfc
How long did you soak?

Have you thought about Hummus?

Soaked overnight. And I think about hummus ALL the TIME. Dammit! Now you've got me wanting to make some. yum smiley

Quote
Janit
Treating this as a matter of biochemistry I see the following issues:

1) How effective is soaking at leaching out the polysaccharides? Is there a better way to do this?

2) How much maceration is necessary to get effective enzymatic digestion? Is it enough to cook until soft, and then incubate at 55 degrees with alpha-galactosidase for some time, or is it better to puree and then incubate? Are other enzymes also necessary to digest the polysaccharides?

3) Is there an easy way to assay the level of polysaccharides remaining in the chick peas after preparation? This might also make it possible to quantify what level of polysaccharides your gut can tolerate.

This sounds like a perfect pandemic project if you are missing the lab. And the results would surely qualify for submission to the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

Another approach would be to breed or engineer gasless chickpeassmiley-excited001

Yep... I was thinking about this from the biochem perspective too. I did soaks where I was replacing the water fairly frequently (this is the recommended method from the USDA), but the problem -- as I see it -- is that you could still have a lot of the oligosaccharide hiding inside the intact beans. That's why I was thinking about grinding them up, THEN soaking.

And soaking/cooking at the higher temp, using an enzyme, might do it... since the enzyme is optimal at 55oC. The Zygest-13 supplement I posted also has hemicellulase enzyme, which may work on these damned oligosaccharides.

And breeding or developing gasless legumes would be pretty cool and not too hard, now that we can all be doing CRISPR at home. smiley-excited001

Ah, you answered before I made my final edit:

Finally, I wonder if it would be possible to brew a chickpea beer, thereby converting all those nasty polysaccharides into ethanol?

Actually, isn't that really what yeast are doing with flour in a sourdough starter? Fermenting the carbs to ethanol and CO2?

I'm really now wondering if I should try cooking the chickpeas in the Instant Pot with enzyme added. The 55oC is easily achievable in an Instant Pot, and supposedly you can go from dry to cooked chickpeas in 40 minutes-- though I would think longer is better in terms of enzymatic activity, so maybe slow, rather than fast, pressure cooking.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: jesse
Date: February 12, 2021 09:34AM
Have you tried pre-soaking with the Instant Pot?

I use this method when cooking pinto beans and it seems to solve the gassy issue.

I think it's 4 cups of water/cup of beans, cook for 3 minutes, then release pressure after 10 minutes.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 12, 2021 12:48PM
Quote
jesse
Have you tried pre-soaking with the Instant Pot?

I use this method when cooking pinto beans and it seems to solve the gassy issue.

I think it's 4 cups of water/cup of beans, cook for 3 minutes, then release pressure after 10 minutes.

Haven't tried this, but it's along the same lines as what I was suggesting: to soak / cook them for an extended period, adding enzyme to the mix (which couldn't hurt, I don't think). Cooking chickpeas in an Instant Pot without soaking DOES take a lot longer than 3 minutes though, here's an example: [detoxinista.com] ... she's doing it for 50 minutes, I've seen other pages that say 40. It would also be nice to know what temperature it gets inside the Instant Pot, or better yet, if you could set it for a specific temperature, so that the enzyme can do its thing.

Edit: the Instant Pot manual suggests that the "Keep Warm" setting is still a bit too much on the hot side for the enzyme -- 68-73oC. [instantpot.com]




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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: jesse
Date: February 12, 2021 04:01PM
Sorry, it's actually 4 minutes, with natural pressure release (about 10 minutes). I have only done this with Pinto Beans (the instructions are in the recipe book with the refried beans recipe).

After the 4 minute pre-soak, you do still need to cook the beans for at least another 10 minutes, I'm guessing chickpeas would be longer.

Enzymes might be the why to go, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that beans pre-soaked, then cooked in my Instant Pot resulted in much less gas and bloating.

I do love Chickpeas, I'll have to try this method with them.
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Re: Cooking question: I adore chickpeas, but...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 12, 2021 04:38PM
Quote
jesse
Sorry, it's actually 4 minutes, with natural pressure release (about 10 minutes). I have only done this with Pinto Beans (the instructions are in the recipe book with the refried beans recipe).

After the 4 minute pre-soak, you do still need to cook the beans for at least another 10 minutes, I'm guessing chickpeas would be longer.

Enzymes might be the why to go, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that beans pre-soaked, then cooked in my Instant Pot resulted in much less gas and bloating.

I do love Chickpeas, I'll have to try this method with them.

I can certainly try the pre-soak and then change the water out for the actual cooking, but I'm still thinking that if I could set the Instant Pot for a lower temp, that'd be better because you don't want to kill the enzymes.

Like I said, I made some incredible pasta with chickpeas ... tasted great, but the gas was beyond belief, and that was WITH an overnight pre-soak and using my enzyme supplement when I ate them.




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