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Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: February 24, 2021 01:39PM
The photographer did nothing illegal if this game happened on public property. For her to use her celebrity status and social media to imply the man was a child molester seems legally actionable to me.


[petapixel.com]

Photographer Darryl Wilkins has reportedly filed a lawsuit against celebrity Hilary Duff and talk show host Wendy Williams, accusing the two of defamation by suggesting that Wilkins could be a child predator after Duff filmed Wilkins photographing her son’s football game in a public park.

It all began back in February 2020 when Duff noticed Wilkins at her 7-year-old son’s football match. Duff started recording Williams with her smartphone camera as she approached and confronted the photographer.

She then posted a clip of the confrontation to her millions of followers on Instagram with the caption: “Paparazzi shooting KIDS. Go ‘practice’ your photography on ADULTS! Creep! Laws need to change! This is stalking minors! Disgusting!”




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 05:55PM by pRICE cUBE.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 24, 2021 01:53PM
This lawsuit will go nowhere fast, but he can continue to photograph football games.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: February 24, 2021 02:38PM
It's a ploy on the photographer's part, IMHO.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 24, 2021 03:09PM
Hilary 'Karen' Duff is the creep here.

"OK, then I will just post this to my 15 million followers on Instagram and let people know how creepy it is that this is what you're choosing to do on your Saturday morning."

I've seen no sourced reporting that identifies the photographer as a paparazzo, or any indication that he had any idea that a famous person's child was playing in the game.

She deserves to be sued, and I hope he receives a healthy settlement out of it. His reputation has surely been tarnished, and the man did nothing wrong except step into the world of another entitled Karen who just couldn't control her desire to tell a Black man what he should and should not do. (Edit: and record it, so she could post it and show the whole world what a great Protectress of Children she is. Makes me sick. Get a life, Duff.)



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 03:11PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: hal
Date: February 24, 2021 03:17PM
I'm not a fan of anyone in this story
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: datbeme
Date: February 24, 2021 03:20PM
Quote
hal
I'm not a fan of anyone in this story

Perfect summation!
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 24, 2021 03:23PM
I'd say in this particular instance, being a Black person is probably beneficial; all of the recent racist attacks on Black people will turn public opinion against the White lady karen. If it were a slovenly older white dude, I'd say the photographer might not fare as well. (Strangely, this guy looks like someone I know who also happens to be a photographer.)
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 24, 2021 03:25PM
Quote
hal
I'm not a fan of anyone in this story

Photographing youth sports is not tantamount to exploitation, nor is it an indication of creepiness. He wasn't hiding in the drop ceiling of a gymnasium where kids in gymnastics or wrestling apparel were practicing. He was taking pictures of a football game, on a public field, in clear view of everyone present. This man did nothing wrong, but ended up with his face and name plastered all over the Internet, targeted as a creep and paparazzo because an out of control self-appointed vigilante decided to make a spectacle of her discomfort.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 24, 2021 03:38PM
Quote
rjmacs
Hilary 'Karen' Duff is the creep here.

"OK, then I will just post this to my 15 million followers on Instagram and let people know how creepy it is that this is what you're choosing to do on your Saturday morning."

I've seen no sourced reporting that identifies the photographer as a paparazzo, or any indication that he had any idea that a famous person's child was playing in the game.

She deserves to be sued, and I hope he receives a healthy settlement out of it. His reputation has surely been tarnished, and the man did nothing wrong except step into the world of another entitled Karen who just couldn't control her desire to tell a Black man what he should and should not do. (Edit: and record it, so she could post it and show the whole world what a great Protectress of Children she is. Makes me sick. Get a life, Duff.)

Wow.

Wow.

We have completely different takes on this. First, I see nothing in the language of her post that refers to him, directly or indirectly, as a child molester. She never went there.

Second, most celebrity parents are well-known to be VERY protective of their children being photographed in public by strangers — with good reason, in my opinion. While this sentiment typically applies to paparazzi, it’s easy to see why they would feel that way about any photographer who is unknown to the parent.

Finally, I’ve encountered many, many, many accounts on the Internet of non-celebrity parents reacting in exactly the same manner in response to exactly the same situation. This is definitely not a case of celebrity entitlement at play.

This photog may be in the right legally, but given people’s sensitivity to having their children photographed in public by strangers, the wisdom behind his actions is questionable.



It is what it is.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 24, 2021 03:40PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
hal
I'm not a fan of anyone in this story

Photographing youth sports is not tantamount to exploitation, nor is it an indication of creepiness. He wasn't hiding in the drop ceiling of a gymnasium where kids in gymnastics or wrestling apparel were practicing. He was taking pictures of a football game, on a public field, in clear view of everyone present. This man did nothing wrong, but ended up with his face and name plastered all over the Internet, targeted as a creep and paparazzo because an out of control self-appointed vigilante decided to make a spectacle of her discomfort.

How do you know so much about what this man is and what he isn’t?



It is what it is.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 24, 2021 04:02PM
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. She is a celebrity and with celebrity comes a love/hate relationship with paparazzi and photographers. If it was a public park and he was just taking photos of the game and the kids... well, that's what photographers do sometimes, taking photos of a game in a public location is perfectly legal.

Edit: it's true he could have asked her first, but should a photographer have to ask everyone present at a public event whether or not they wish to be photographed? That's a little unrealistic. One assumes that he was taking pictures of her and her son BECAUSE she's a "celebrity", that is a bit different from just some random person showing up to a game to take photos of the kids.

Edit #2: having actually now watched the video she took of him, again, while it would have been nice for him to stop taking photos, he is entirely correct that it's perfectly legal for him to do so -- and the video does make the point that she is using her "celebrity" and social media standing to full effect against him. It reeks of Karenhood particularly because he's black, and while she may think it's "creepy" for him to be taking photos, that's just her opinion and not the law. (In actuality, I correct myself in the first edit, even if he wasn't taking pictures of her and her son because she's a "celebrity", I still see nothing wrong with it... some photographers will just wander around and take photos of random things and people in public, again totally legal so long as it's a public place.)




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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 05:24PM by PeterB.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 24, 2021 04:08PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
hal
I'm not a fan of anyone in this story

Photographing youth sports is not tantamount to exploitation, nor is it an indication of creepiness. He wasn't hiding in the drop ceiling of a gymnasium where kids in gymnastics or wrestling apparel were practicing. He was taking pictures of a football game, on a public field, in clear view of everyone present. This man did nothing wrong, but ended up with his face and name plastered all over the Internet, targeted as a creep and paparazzo because an out of control self-appointed vigilante decided to make a spectacle of her discomfort.

How do you know so much about what this man is and what he isn’t?

Never said I did. Just working with the evidence. And you?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: AllGold
Date: February 24, 2021 04:15PM
I started to respond to this and then I got too pissed off. Maybe later.



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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 24, 2021 06:25PM
Remember the 'Chant Of The Moms' starting in the 1980's

"Trust No One, Fear Everything"
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: February 24, 2021 06:25PM
Sorry, but a photographer not associated with anyone on the team or the league taking photos of kids is creepy. Hillary as a celeb is fair game. Her kid isn’t, especially with all the pervs out there.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: August West
Date: February 24, 2021 06:45PM
Is there evidence of photographers shooting kids sports being associated with danger to children?



Apologies to the anonymous forum member affected by my previous sig pic. It was my personal pic of a country expressing great grief as their leader, one of the most recognized people in the world, lay on his deathbed 8 years ago, days before he died. Like a naif, I did not realize it was offensively political, I considered it an expression of deep emotion and a reminder of the mortal coil's nature; that we all, great and small, can only hope to make a difference in our short time here, no matter the personal cost.

I'll post another pic from my work in South Africa that is, hopefully, apolitical.

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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 24, 2021 06:59PM
If it's revealed he sells his content to TMZ or some other celeb publishing outfit he needs to shut up.
If it's revealed nothing of the sort exists, she needs to shut up.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: Gareth
Date: February 24, 2021 07:01PM
Quote
macphanatic
Sorry, but a photographer not associated with anyone on the team or the league taking photos of kids is creepy.

Thank you for calling me creepy. As an example: I was at a horse show to shoot pictures of a friend and her husband riding. This is a show that is open to the public, no tickets required. At the time, I hadn't shot any horse show photos and in one of the arenas the kids were riding hunter/jumper (which frankly is more compelling to shoot than the dressage my friends were riding). So I got some practice shots in of the kids so I could get used to following the horse and setting up camera, figuring out which lens would be best, etc, and I got some great photos of those kids (as well as my friends).

From what little I've read, what I did is not necessarily all that different from this story, but there might be some important differences. I was at an actual show, so folks are used to seeing photographers around, and I carry gear similar to the actual show photographers (when I shoot half marathons my wife runs in, I'm often mistaken for an official photographer by the other runners), I had my wife near me, and I'm not black (although I am ambiguously mixed race), and if worse came to worse, I could have pointed them in the direction of my horse friends for validation.

Now, I'll admit, yes, it does feel creepy to take photos of kids you're not associated with, but should it if the intention is not nefarious? I've often thought of having business cards printed up to carry with me with my contact info if I'm ever in a similar situation, so if anyone did approach me, I could just hand them one so they could get in touch with me if they want any awesome photos!
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 24, 2021 07:09PM
There's an open question of what alerted Duff and the assumption of his intentions before she spoke to him. (Otherwise, why would you come up on someone with your smartphone already running?)

If she suspected he's paparazzi, it would be because she didn't recognize him and knows all the other parents? And that paparazzi is a common problem around her? Even so, the complaint of being "uncomfortable" is a lie in the absence of something that indicates he'd be a pedophile.

And last time I checked, being a photog who sneaks celeb photos is a very different thing from that. If she was truly concerned about him reselling his images, why not honestly state that? The "making us uncomfortable" part is where she crosses the line here.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: btfc
Date: February 24, 2021 09:11PM
“There's an open question of what alerted Duff and the assumption of his intentions before she spoke to him. (Otherwise, why would you come up on someone with your smartphone already running?)

If she suspected he's paparazzi, it would be because she didn't recognize him and knows all the other parents? And that paparazzi is a common problem around her? Even so, the complaint of being "uncomfortable" is a lie in the absence of something that indicates he'd be a pedophile. “


Exactly the point I was going to make. Absent some more problematic behavior, it seems as she overreacted to the extreme. Perhaps she has had issues with paparazzi or photographers in the past. It seems like a situation that could have been handled with respectful communication.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 24, 2021 09:37PM
What btfc said, plus the following:

I wonder how she would have reacted, had the photographer been another white female.

Add this to the list ... photography while black. He offered to show her his ID, which tells me that his intentions were probably fine; and he was legitimately put off by being told that he couldn't do something which is perfectly legal, if admittedly "creepy" or not advisable. This interaction could have ended a whole other way, had assumptions not been made.

And since when has it become illegal to just go around and take photos in public places? I don't know if they still call it this, but it used to be known as "slice of life" photography, and is a form of artistic expression protected by the 1A. Some of the greatest photographers have done this style...






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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: February 24, 2021 09:43PM
The social media post was then amplified by a daytime talk show. It is not illegal and not wrong to take pictures of people in public. No crime was committed. Duff was within her rights to ask him to stop and he was within his rights to decline. Where she crossed the line was posting his image and words indicating wrong doing when no such actions occurred. Those baseless words without any evidence caused harm to this man who has broken no law.




“It’s just an uncomfortability factor that these are 7-year-old children and you don’t have a child here,” Duff counters.

After Duff’s video went viral, Williams weighed in on her top-ranked syndicated talk show , The Wendy Williams Show. Williams played Duff’s clip to her audience and weighed in.

“Creepy to me,” Williams says after sharing the clip. “Sir, if you’re practicing photography, why wouldn’t you go into a park and take pictures of birds and butterflies?”

In his lawsuit, which was first reported by The Blast, Wilkins insists he was simply testing his camera gear by shooting sports photography and that Duff defamed him by publicly accusing him of “reprehensible and despicable conduct including by innuendo that he was a child predator.”

Williams then repeated the defamatory claims on her TV show, the suit says.




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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 24, 2021 10:51PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
First, I see nothing in the language of her post that refers to him, directly or indirectly, as a child molester. She never went there.

Quote

She then posted a clip of the confrontation to her millions of followers on Instagram with the caption: “Paparazzi shooting KIDS. Go ‘practice’ your photography on ADULTS! Creep! Laws need to change! This is stalking minors! Disgusting!”

She calls him a creep and accuses him of stalking minors. That’s pretty much going about all the way “there”.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 24, 2021 11:36PM
Quote
Blankity Blank
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
First, I see nothing in the language of her post that refers to him, directly or indirectly, as a child molester. She never went there.

Quote

She then posted a clip of the confrontation to her millions of followers on Instagram with the caption: “Paparazzi shooting KIDS. Go ‘practice’ your photography on ADULTS! Creep! Laws need to change! This is stalking minors! Disgusting!”

She calls him a creep and accuses him of stalking minors. That’s pretty much going about all the way “there”.

I disagree. Child molestation is a very specific and heinous act — “stalking minors” doesn’t even begin to approach it.



It is what it is.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’"
Posted by: Janit
Date: February 25, 2021 12:07AM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Blankity Blank
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
First, I see nothing in the language of her post that refers to him, directly or indirectly, as a child molester. She never went there.

Quote

She then posted a clip of the confrontation to her millions of followers on Instagram with the caption: “Paparazzi shooting KIDS. Go ‘practice’ your photography on ADULTS! Creep! Laws need to change! This is stalking minors! Disgusting!”

She calls him a creep and accuses him of stalking minors. That’s pretty much going about all the way “there”.

I disagree. Child molestation is a very specific and heinous act — “stalking minors” doesn’t even begin to approach it.

It's called using euphemisms. And using innuendo to imply what one means without actually saying it outright.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: February 25, 2021 08:12AM
She calls him a creep and accuses him of stalking minors. That’s pretty much going about all the way “there”.
--
It's called using euphemisms. And using innuendo to imply what one means without actually saying it outright.



I agree on both counts.

Somewhat carefully chosen words, in her effort to say one thing while meaning another.



The use of scare quotes and everything in that sentence is her saying "Child molester/pedophile" without actually saying those words.


Those baseless words without any evidence caused harm to this man who has broken no law.


Exactly.

Anytime someone makes baseless allegations that cause harm, they need to be held accountable.

'You make me feel uncomfortable...' shouldn't be the sole criteria of assigning wrongdoing, and as such shouldn't be allowed to foment fear and loathing in others, of innocent parties.

There is a base evil in using one's elevated status and social media to instill fear, uncertainty, and distrust (not just doubt), without evidence.

It would be interesting to know why she decided to approach him, and what preconcieved notion, if any, she may have had.


"Yes, you're in a public place and not doing anything illegal, but you make me uncomfortable so go someplace else where you won't annoy me. You CREEP."

That's total BS.

I wonder if Baldwin would have assaulted the guy if he were in her place.

It appears there's no indication of any evil intent on the part of the photographer other than Duff's outrage.

Unless there's some actual evidence to support her bare fear, I hope the photographer's suit is successful, even if there's no redress other than Duff's lawyer(s) telling her to watch her mouth.



It's a ploy on the photographer's part, IMHO.

In my not so humble opinion, that's utter BS.





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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 25, 2021 11:31AM
Pro-tip: Phone cameras are virtually socially invisible in use these days. This is not advice for the creeps, this is advice for people who enjoy street photography but don't want to run into issues like this. Even I feel increasingly self-conscious about using big cameras where lots of strangers are present, but cell phone? No one gives a hoot. Just smile like you are taking a selfie.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: February 25, 2021 05:01PM
Quote
Gareth
Quote
macphanatic
Sorry, but a photographer not associated with anyone on the team or the league taking photos of kids is creepy.

Thank you for calling me creepy. As an example: I was at a horse show to shoot pictures of a friend and her husband riding. This is a show that is open to the public, no tickets required. At the time, I hadn't shot any horse show photos and in one of the arenas the kids were riding hunter/jumper (which frankly is more compelling to shoot than the dressage my friends were riding). So I got some practice shots in of the kids so I could get used to following the horse and setting up camera, figuring out which lens would be best, etc, and I got some great photos of those kids (as well as my friends).

From what little I've read, what I did is not necessarily all that different from this story, but there might be some important differences. I was at an actual show, so folks are used to seeing photographers around, and I carry gear similar to the actual show photographers (when I shoot half marathons my wife runs in, I'm often mistaken for an official photographer by the other runners), I had my wife near me, and I'm not black (although I am ambiguously mixed race), and if worse came to worse, I could have pointed them in the direction of my horse friends for validation.

Now, I'll admit, yes, it does feel creepy to take photos of kids you're not associated with, but should it if the intention is not nefarious? I've often thought of having business cards printed up to carry with me with my contact info if I'm ever in a similar situation, so if anyone did approach me, I could just hand them one so they could get in touch with me if they want any awesome photos!

I view this as different. Someone showing up at a kids sporting event that isn't there as a relative or friend, representing the event or for news purposes that is taking pictures of kids is questionable. Especially in this day and age.

I have no issue with celebrities being photographed. Their kids should be off limits as everyone else's kids. Kids have enough social issues to deal with without their photos being used for who knows what purpose.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 25, 2021 06:22PM
Can't say I'm surprised.

In the 1980s' I could walk onto a school playground and shoot photos of kids being kids for a daily feature.

By the late 90s', I had to check-in at the school office, but I could shoot kids outside schools with impunity.

In the early 2000s, schools were off-limits and you better check with a parent before taking a kid's photo anyplace else.

I had the cops called on me several times to the point where dispatchers knew me by description (one arm kinda gave them a clue). The mindset changed completely in a quarter-century. I can only imagine the paranoia now. Regardless, the photographer was within his legal rights even if he was paparazzi (which I doubt). The cynic in me thinks that Duff got more newsprint off this than she has had in several years. That is pretty valuable to a dormant, if not dead, career.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 25, 2021 06:52PM
Quote
Ombligo
The cynic in me thinks that Duff got more newsprint off this than she has had in several years. That is pretty valuable to a dormant, if not dead, career.

She’s appeared in a successful TV series for going on seven years now — perhaps not as bereft as you imagined: [www.imdb.com]



It is what it is.
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 26, 2021 12:48PM
If you don't want to be photographed in public, stay out of public. If you don't want your kids to be photographed in public, keep them out of public spaces.

You don't have a right to prevent your image being captured when you're in public. This is settled law, and I'm tired of people acting as though their personal discomfort is an excuse to abuse people engaging in legal, regular behavior. Check your fragility - it's a free country.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Photographer sues actress for potentially defaming social media post calling him a "Creep’" & calling it child stalking
Posted by: AllGold
Date: February 26, 2021 01:20PM
I had to pull back when I started to post because of both comments here and on the original Petapixel story that I'd already read.

Here is an example of why this gets me so cheesed off:

Sorry, but a photographer not associated with anyone on the team or the league taking photos of kids is creepy. Hillary as a celeb is fair game. Her kid isn’t, especially with all the pervs out there.

What is creepy about this? Really, I mean it. What is creepy?

How is photographing a soccer game in a public park, kids or not, creepy?

If your problem is that it's kids playing soccer, how old do they have to be for it to not be creepy? 12? 15? Or do they have to be 18+-year-old legal adults for it to be ok? Is that even ok, or is it also creepy even if they're adults.

And what pleasure would you expect a "perv" to derive from photographing a soccer game?

So there's my beef. I don't understand what the problem is when people freak out about this kind of thing.



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