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TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 05, 2021 08:51AM
If you are a devotee to classic cinema, as I am, it is easy to see issues with many when viewed under today's standards.

Turner Classic Movies will be showing a collection of these films, each prefaced with a round table discussion about issues they present. Tonight kicks off with "Gone with the Wind" and both the racial and sexist overtones. Following it will be the musical "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers." The discussion for it will center on sexism and male dominance.

Each Thursday in March another lineup will be examined. In the upcoming weeks films such as "Breakfast at Tiffany's", "The Jazz Singer", "My Fair Lady", and "Psycho" will be featured.

Thursday, March 4
8 p.m.: Gone With the Wind (1939)
Midnight: Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1954)
2 a.m.: Rope (1948)
3:30 a.m.: The Four Feathers (1939)

Thursday, March 11
8 p.m.: Woman of the Year (1942)
10:15 p.m.: Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner (1967)
12:15 a.m.: Gunga Din (1939)
2:30 a.m.: Sinbad, the Sailor (1947)
4:30 a.m.: The Jazz Singer (1927)

Thursday, March 18
8 p.m.: The Searchers (1956)
10:15 p.m.: Breakfast at Tiffany’s (1961)
12:30 a.m.: Swing Time (1936)
2:15 a.m.: Stagecoach (1939)
4 a.m.: Tarzan, the Ape Man (1959)

Thursday, March 25
8 p.m.: My Fair Lady (1964)
11 p.m.: The Children’s Hour (1961)
1 a.m.: Psycho (1960)
3 a.m.: Dragon Seed (1944)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 05, 2021 09:53AM
.....can you expound on that.....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: rz
Date: March 05, 2021 09:53AM
So, in 50 to 100 years from now, are they going to discuss the movies of today and pan them for not being sensitive to the issues of 2071? Like, if an alien life form (oops, sorry, an undocumented extra-planetary life form) is to make contact with us in the next decade or so and begin to assimilate with us, will they be offended by our portrayal of them in the movies of 2021?
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 05, 2021 10:53AM
The first time I saw 'Breakfast at Tiffany's', I couldn't believe how repulsive Mickey Rooney's' performance of the character Mr Yunioshi was. The stereotyping is as bad as anything seen during WW2.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 05, 2021 11:31AM
Even Rooney has raile3d against his performance for decades. he cites it as the worse role he ever accepted and a personal embarrassment, he took that stance before individuals even cared.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 05, 2021 11:35AM
Quote
rz
So, in 50 to 100 years from now, are they going to discuss the movies of today and pan them for not being sensitive to the issues of 2071?

I made a similar point in a Reddit thread on this topic a couple of days ago and was soundly downvoted.



It is what it is.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: freeradical
Date: March 05, 2021 11:40AM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rz
So, in 50 to 100 years from now, are they going to discuss the movies of today and pan them for not being sensitive to the issues of 2071?

I made a similar point in a Reddit thread on this topic a couple of days ago and was soundly downvoted.

The howling mob there is quite sure of themselves.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 12:33PM
Quote
Ombligo
If you are a devotee to classic cinema, as I am, it is easy to see issues with many when viewed under today's standards.

Turner Classic Movies will be showing a collection of these films, each prefaced with a round table discussion about issues they present. Tonight kicks off with "Gone with the Wind" and both the racial racist and sexist overtones.

Maybe it was their language, not yours, but I can't stand the substitution of "racial" for "racist."

Gone With the Wind is a racist movie based on a racist book, written by an author who based the story on her own experience and beliefs. Using the word "racial" is a way to avoid that unpleasant truth.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 05, 2021 12:37PM
I'd hope that in the future, society has the freedom to look back and judge the past. You don't learn otherwise.

Old content can still be great for what it was back in the day! No one's considerations of that today can change what it meant back then, in the "positive."

Example: Seuss. No one's taking away your Mulberry St. memories, OK?
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 05, 2021 01:43PM
“ So, in 50 to 100 years from now, are they going to discuss the movies of today and pan them for not being sensitive to the issues of 2071? “

Sure, why not? Societal norms change; people who might be younger or don’t have perspectives of former norms might have issues relating to some behavior or situations, so what’s so threatening about discussing that? Better than the alternatives of censoring or blacklisting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 01:44PM by btfc.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: March 05, 2021 02:02PM
I hated Gone With the Wind decades ago. for many reasons, but wanting to slap the crap out of the "heroine" was a big one. And of course the racism.

"Band of Angels" which stars Clark Gable and young Sidney Poitier is in some ways more excruciating.



My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 05, 2021 02:55PM
I'm looking forward to the discussion of "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner." It was a film that forced society to examine interracial relationships but looking at it from today's perspective shows some cringe-worthy stereotypes. I really want to see how the discussion goes.

My TV watching revolves around old reruns. Some of those are truly uncomfortable when viewed through today's goggles. A prime example is the old police drama Adam-12. There has never been a program that glorified the modern police more, but it really has not dated well. The program is sexist to the extreme. The treatment of minorities can be painful (especially Hispanics).

I would like to see Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire examined, likewise Rainman or Goonies - all have issues in today's viewpoints. Don't forget The Birdcage (La Cage aux Folles).

Regardless, as enlightened and intelligent as we view ourselves today, give it 40-50 years and we will be viewed as backward neanderthals. History cannot change to fit the present, it needs to be examined in the values of the time it existed.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Rolando
Date: March 05, 2021 03:13PM
What was "cancelled" today vs 50 years ago and what will be "cancelled" in 10 or 5 or next week? Discuss it, shine a light on it.


Honestly, should the "retired" books by Dr Seuss be immediately put in the public domain? Why not?



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 05, 2021 03:53PM

I find this image outstanding of its type

I think TCM should show the movie as often as possible to prompt discussion
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 04:04PM
Quote
Rolando
Honestly, should the "retired" books by Dr Seuss be immediately put in the public domain? Why not?

No, because then they would be reprinted and redistributed, which is contrary to what his estate wants.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 05, 2021 04:11PM
Quote
Steve G.

I find this image outstanding of its type

I think TCM should show the movie as often as possible to prompt discussion


[m.youtube.com]
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 05, 2021 11:57PM
"Gone With the Wind" is one of my favorite books and one of my favorite movies. It's a piece of cake for me to compartmentalize it. I don't believe Margaret Mitchell was a racist. She wrote a book that she felt was authentic without the judgement of it. She led a fair life until, of course she got hit by that car. I've been to the exact spot where she was run down. I've seen her grave too.

I saw her house burn down in Atlanta after being decorated as an art piece. It was restored. I can't even tolerate listening to people discuss her or the movie out of context.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 11:58PM by vision63.
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 06, 2021 12:06PM
Quote
vision63
"Gone With the Wind" is one of my favorite books and one of my favorite movies. It's a piece of cake for me to compartmentalize it. I don't believe Margaret Mitchell was a racist. She wrote a book that she felt was authentic without the judgement of it. She led a fair life until, of course she got hit by that car. I've been to the exact spot where she was run down. I've seen her grave too.

I saw her house burn down in Atlanta after being decorated as an art piece. It was restored. I can't even tolerate listening to people discuss her or the movie out of context.

Do you think Black people didn't regard this work as racist when it was released?

I respect your opinion, but the idea that it wasn't understood as racist at the time strikes me as ridiculous.

I'm glad you can enjoy this film as valuable, but it's been a racist exploration of the historic moment since it was released. "Out of context"? The context was the Jim Crow reality of American law and practice, in which the themes of Gone With the Wind were enacted into formal legal processes that victimized Black people for generations.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: March 06, 2021 12:21PM
What, no "Lolita?"
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: ArtP
Date: March 06, 2021 03:24PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rz
So, in 50 to 100 years from now, are they going to discuss the movies of today and pan them for not being sensitive to the issues of 2071?

I made a similar point in a Reddit thread on this topic a couple of days ago and was soundly downvoted.

I was thinking more along the lines of “Porkys” American Pie or “How to be a Player” vs #metoo movement - lol
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Re: TCM to discuss classic movies with modern issues
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 06, 2021 05:31PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
"Gone With the Wind" is one of my favorite books and one of my favorite movies. It's a piece of cake for me to compartmentalize it. I don't believe Margaret Mitchell was a racist. She wrote a book that she felt was authentic without the judgement of it. She led a fair life until, of course she got hit by that car. I've been to the exact spot where she was run down. I've seen her grave too.

I saw her house burn down in Atlanta after being decorated as an art piece. It was restored. I can't even tolerate listening to people discuss her or the movie out of context.

Do you think Black people didn't regard this work as racist when it was released?

I respect your opinion, but the idea that it wasn't understood as racist at the time strikes me as ridiculous.

I'm glad you can enjoy this film as valuable, but it's been a racist exploration of the historic moment since it was released. "Out of context"? The context was the Jim Crow reality of American law and practice, in which the themes of Gone With the Wind were enacted into formal legal processes that victimized Black people for generations.

There's nothing I don't about this film, the novel, the author, the political climate in 1939 all the way up to the current political climate. I am an expert on Black history. There isn't a single element anyone can teach me about it, except for people that know more than I do. :-)

People are entitled to think whatever they want about it. Margaret Mitchell didn't write a novel to make life more difficult for Black people. She wrote what she felt was authentic. Just because you don't like the depiction doesn't make it "racist" just because it depicts an extremely racist timeframe. Even excluding Hattie McDaniel from the Atlanta premiere was more pragmatic than racist (it was Selznick's call). America (Atlanta) chose segregation. What was racist, is the apartheid that was America.

Now, everybody wants to weigh in completely outside of the context of the times. Judge it all based on modern values. I can do that with anything.

You can't roll back the clock and the suppression of art is wrong. I'm glad that TCM shows the film. It was the first movie they showed on the network. I think the played it back to back for a good while. Ted Turner loved that movie and knew he could launch his network with it.
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