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NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 25, 2021 10:57AM
[www.npr.org]

The Suez Canal Authority said in a statement Thursday that it had officially suspended traffic while efforts to dislodge the 1,300-foot Ever Given continued. The salvage operator working to free the ship said it could be weeks before it is re-floated — raising the possibility of major new disruptions to global commerce just as supply chains have begun to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Ever Given — one of the largest container vessels in operation and nearly twice as long as the canal is wide — ran aground on Tuesday amid high winds, a dust storm and poor visibility for navigation.



(BTW, it's spelled < y'all >.)
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 25, 2021 11:08AM
Well if you were to lay the Empire State Building on it's side and then ram it at 10-15 knots into a sandbank...
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: mikebw
Date: March 25, 2021 11:17AM
Time to attach a few rockets to that thing to get it backed up a bit.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 25, 2021 11:24AM
Waiting for high tide.

No joke




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: March 25, 2021 11:35AM
The ship sits 15.7 meters deep when loaded. The edge of the canal is 11 meters deep.

This might have been averted had someone done a little math.



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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: March 25, 2021 11:44AM
Trouble in the Suez? We didn’t start the fire.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: clay
Date: March 25, 2021 11:48AM
Quote
mikebw
Time to attach a few rockets to that thing to get it backed up a bit.

you need to tweet that to Elon Musk :-)
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 25, 2021 12:20PM
....what about when things get stuck in birth.......Canal.....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: mikebw
Date: March 25, 2021 12:27PM
Quote
clay
Quote
mikebw
Time to attach a few rockets to that thing to get it backed up a bit.

you need to tweet that to Elon Musk :-)

Machete don't tweet.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: SteveO
Date: March 25, 2021 12:37PM
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: March 25, 2021 12:45PM
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

I've been waiting for gas prices to hit realistic levels. The US government has been artificially suppressing the price for decades. Now the resale value on my Volt will go up so I can more easily afford my Tesla.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 25, 2021 01:28PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

I've been waiting for gas prices to hit realistic levels. The US government has been artificially suppressing the price for decades. Now the resale value on my Volt will go up so I can more easily afford my Tesla.

It would be an excuse to increase domestic supplies because the public ain't having skyrocketing fuel prices. Unless folk feel like being unelected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 01:30PM by vision63.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: lost in space
Date: March 25, 2021 01:33PM
Quote
Sarcany
The ship sits 15.7 meters deep when loaded. The edge of the canal is 11 meters deep.

Pretty good chance it's been through the Suez before.

Quote
Sarcany

This might have been averted had someone done a little math.

High winds blew it off course. Math wouldn't have helped.



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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 25, 2021 01:45PM
Quote
lost in space
Quote
Sarcany
The ship sits 15.7 meters deep when loaded. The edge of the canal is 11 meters deep.

Pretty good chance it's been through the Suez before.

Quote
Sarcany

This might have been averted had someone done a little math.

High winds blew it off course. Math wouldn't have helped.

I have a container of vital supplies on that ship. Thimbles and Bobbins and such and such.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 25, 2021 01:55PM
“ High winds blew it off course.”

It was one of a group of very similar ships from the same shipper that were going through at the same time. None of the others exhibited the same problem.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: March 25, 2021 02:16PM
I'm sure they have smart people on this, but I don't understand why eight steel cables attached to eight Caterpillar tractors on the far shore wouldn't back her out into deeper water fairly quickly.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: March 25, 2021 02:23PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
I'm sure they have smart people on this, but I don't understand why eight steel cables attached to eight Caterpillar tractors on the far shore wouldn't back her out into deeper water fairly quickly.

It would take a lot more than 8...
I don't know how many tens of thousands of tons the ship is, but I can "SWAG" that that many tens of thousands of tons, stuck in the mud, won't be budged by 8. Not saying the concept is flawed, just that it's gonna take more than 8. 80, maybe. And where to attach the cables?



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 25, 2021 03:36PM
In case anybody hasn't seen it...





In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: mikebw
Date: March 25, 2021 03:47PM
How about those industrial air bladders they use to launch new ships into the water on? Seems like they could pump up something like that under the stuck parts to help reduce the friction. Although, maybe getting underneath would not be much easier than digging away the perimeter.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: JoeH
Date: March 25, 2021 03:50PM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
Mr Downtown
I'm sure they have smart people on this, but I don't understand why eight steel cables attached to eight Caterpillar tractors on the far shore wouldn't back her out into deeper water fairly quickly.

It would take a lot more than 8...
I don't know how many tens of thousands of tons the ship is, but I can "SWAG" that that many tens of thousands of tons, stuck in the mud, won't be budged by 8. Not saying the concept is flawed, just that it's gonna take more than 8. 80, maybe. And where to attach the cables?

And just how much force you can exert on the ship structure and not have something break or otherwise get damaged.

One of the pictures in a story about this shows a digger on shore near the bow of this ship. It is dwarfed, and it is not a small machine.

Oh and the ship is listed at over 220,000 tons.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 03:52PM by JoeH.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: March 25, 2021 03:56PM
Quote
JoeH
And just how much force you can exert on the ship structure and not have something break or otherwise get damaged.

One of the pictures in a story about this shows a digger on shore near the bow of this ship. It is dwarfed, and it is not a small machine.

Oh and the ship is listed at over 220,000 tons.

Exactly! Ships DO break into pieces when pulled in strange ways by strange cables... That should be avoided.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 04:01PM by Paul F..
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: March 25, 2021 03:58PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
In case anybody hasn't seen it...


That literally made e LOL.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: March 25, 2021 04:09PM
One has to wonder if it was loaded heavier than it should have been. The ideal solution would be to carefully remove containers until it floated. That may be easier said than done though. It would probably require heavy lift helicopters and low wind conditions.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 25, 2021 04:36PM
Back up the ships in line.
Sail in a heavy construction crane on a barge or ship, and a bunch of other barges. Unload the beast.

Yeah... that’s gonna take weeks to get all that hardware in place.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: wurm
Date: March 25, 2021 04:47PM
Sign of the times. At first glance my eyes saw "Free Ship" and I thought of Amazon Prime. That's embarrassing.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 25, 2021 05:28PM
Quote
RgrF
Well if you were to lay the Empire State Building on it's side and then ram it at 10-15 knots into a sandbank...

I read that this ship is equal in length to three ESBs.

EDIT: OK, that's wrong -- the LAT article I read issued a retraction: [www.latimes.com]



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 05:34PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Ammo
Date: March 25, 2021 05:30PM
Nothing a few giant magnets couldn't solve. Maybe install inflatable lane bumpers in the future.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 25, 2021 05:30PM
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

Article I read today said they've already gone up in response to this incident.



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 05:30PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 25, 2021 05:32PM
Quote
Paul F.
I don't know how many tens of thousands of tons the ship is, but I can "SWAG" that that many tens of thousands of tons, stuck in the mud, won't be budged by 8. Not saying the concept is flawed, just that it's gonna take more than 8. 80, maybe. And where to attach the cables?

Ship is 200,000 tons by itself and is loaded with a cargo weighting about as much.

EDIT: Corrected the tonnage after referring back to the article I read: [www.latimes.com]



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2021 05:35PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 25, 2021 06:19PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

Article I read today said they've already gone up in response to this incident.

Spent $42 today to load 10 gals into the beast.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: decay
Date: March 25, 2021 09:26PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

Article I read today said they've already gone up in response to this incident.

Spent $42 today to load 10 gals into the beast.

Premium gas? what state?



---
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: March 25, 2021 09:52PM
Um, ships have special places to attach mooring lines, cause, you know, sometimes ships have to be attached to continents for a few days. The crew probably has a sticky note or something telling where they are.

It's not resting on the bottom; the nose just pushed into the bank slope. The total tonnage is not particularly relevant. You simply need enough force to reverse the part of the journey that pushed it into the bank.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 25, 2021 10:01PM
“ the nose just pushed into the bank slope “

Depth of the canal near the bank is less than what the ship draws; it’s grounded, Jim!
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: March 25, 2021 10:02PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
Um, ships have special places to attach mooring lines, cause, you know, sometimes ships have to be attached to continents for a few days. The crew probably has a sticky note or something telling where they are.

It's not resting on the bottom; the nose just pushed into the bank slope. The total tonnage is not particularly relevant. You simply need enough force to reverse the part of the journey that pushed it into the bank.

I'm not a physics nerd, but I think you would be surprised at how much more force is going to be required to take something that heavy and break it lose from a stationary position vs what it took to put it there from inertia. You would probably need a rocket to pull it out.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 25, 2021 10:03PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
Um, ships have special places to attach mooring lines, cause, you know, sometimes ships have to be attached to continents for a few days. The crew probably has a sticky note or something telling where they are.

It's not resting on the bottom; the nose just pushed into the bank slope. The total tonnage is not particularly relevant. You simply need enough force to reverse the part of the journey that pushed it into the bank.

A wind tunnel that replicates and reverses the original drift problem - that ought to be easy.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 25, 2021 10:15PM
Quote
decay
Quote
RgrF
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

Article I read today said they've already gone up in response to this incident.

Spent $42 today to load 10 gals into the beast.

Premium gas? what state?

Loss Angeleese, Californiyah
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 25, 2021 10:28PM


[www.dailymail.co.uk]


"This is not an Amsterdam-Rhine Canal where you have the same depth over the entire width. You are dealing with an avenue in the middle that is up to 25 meters deep, but soon after that it goes to 15 meters, to 11 meters, and then even less to the ends. The ship is 15.7 meters deep. Certainly at the front the ship is a meter on the slope. "

(Translated from Dutch)

[yxq7xr4mrrvowxg67xombi6mji-adwhj77lcyoafdy-nos-nl.translate.goog]
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 25, 2021 11:46PM
btfc, thanks for the link.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 26, 2021 12:06AM
It would cause a mess, but start dumping dirt to block the channel on either side of the ship. Pump an extra 10 feet of water into that section and the ship will float free. I think the biggest issue is if there are earth excavators near enough to do the work.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: btfc
Date: March 26, 2021 12:11AM
High tides will peak soon, and should help.

“ I think the biggest issue is if there are earth excavators near enough to do the work. “

I read that to bring in cranes large enough to move shipping containers would be a difficult endeavor.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 26, 2021 12:40AM
Quote
decay
Quote
RgrF
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
SteveO
Sounds like this'll make a good excuse to raise gas prices.

Article I read today said they've already gone up in response to this incident.

Spent $42 today to load 10 gals into the beast.

Premium gas? what state?

Premium is up to $3.80 or so at Costco in CA -- commercial stations usually run about $0.50 higher.



It is what it is.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 26, 2021 12:54AM
Quote
C(-)ris
I'm not a physics nerd, but I think you would be surprised at how much more force is going to be required to take something that heavy and break it lose from a stationary position vs what it took to put it there from inertia. You would probably need a rocket to pull it out.

One rocket, coming right up!





It is what it is.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 26, 2021 06:52AM
does anyone have an image showing a cross section to see what shape it is under the water and how deep it goes?
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 26, 2021 09:41AM
....the Shape.....of Water......????



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: March 26, 2021 10:12AM
If anyone has ever buried a pick axe in the ground, and tried to pull it out laterally, I'm guessing it's kind of similar.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: March 26, 2021 03:56PM
Quote
mikebw
How about those industrial air bladders they use to launch new ships into the water on? Seems like they could pump up something like that under the stuck parts to help reduce the friction. Although, maybe getting underneath would not be much easier than digging away the perimeter.

If things went wrong, the ship could turn over.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: March 26, 2021 03:58PM
Quote
btfc
High tides will peak soon, and should help.

“ I think the biggest issue is if there are earth excavators near enough to do the work. “

I read that to bring in cranes large enough to move shipping containers would be a difficult endeavor.

I read that there's not a crane in Egypt tall enough to reach the top.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: Diana
Date: March 26, 2021 05:18PM
Quote
space-time
does anyone have an image showing a cross section to see what shape it is under the water and how deep it goes?

Generic images:

https://forshipbuilding.com/ship-types/container-ship/

As you can see they are not flat on the bottom, with a protruding keel that runs the length of the ship.

Stats on this particular ship (from the Wikipedia article):

Ever Given is one of 13 container ships built to the Imabari 20000 design developed by Imabari Shipbuilding.[4] With an overall length of 399.94 metres (1,312 ft 2 in),[3] it is one of the longest container ships in service. Its hull has a beam of 58.8 metres (192 ft 11 in) and depth of 32.9 metres (107 ft 11 in), and fully-laden draws 14.5 metres (47 ft 7 in) of water.[3] Ever Given has a gross tonnage of 220,940; net tonnage of 99,155; and deadweight tonnage of 199,629 tons.[3] The ship's container capacity is 20,124 TEU.[5]

Like most large container ships, Ever Given is propelled by a single low-speed two-stroke crosshead diesel engine coupled to a fixed-pitch propeller. The main engine, an 11-cylinder license-manufactured Mitsui–MAN B&W 11G95ME-C9, is rated at 59,300 kW (79,500 horsepower) at 79 rpm and gives the vessel a service speed of 22.8 knots (42.2 km/h; 26.2 mph).[4] The vessel also has four 8-cylinder Yanmar 8EY33LW auxiliary diesel generators.[4] For maneuvering in ports, Ever Given has two 2,500 kW (3,400 hp) bow thrusters.[4]


For those who don't know:
length=length of the ship from nose (bow) to butt (stern);
beam=width of the ship at the widest;
draft=how deep the ship sits in the water, for instance she will sit higher in the water (shallower draft) empty as opposed to when full (deeper draft);
waterline=how high the water reaches the side of the ship, and can change depending on whether she is loaded or unloaded. Usually marked unloaded, with gradations up the side of the ship so one can tell at a glance how laden the ship but can be marked at half-load
deadweight tonnage=how much she weighs empty
net tonnage=how much she can carry
gross tonnage=deadweight+net (this is the amount that the Ever Given weighs that has to be shifted)

Fully laden, you can expect her to sit about 48 feet deep in the water (approximately the height of a four story building). In short, she is HUGE and was never designed for what she is currently suffering. Not only is she aground at the bow, but also at the stern. IF (and that is a BIG if) she could withstand it, you may have to pull from the rear, and try to go in the opposite direction from which she grounded. These things were never designed to be towed from the rear, though, and there is no (reinforced) place to get a line on her to tug her out of her current predicament.They also are not known for their high maneuverability, as it takes a lot of room for them to turn and/or stop. It is this characteristic that makes them vulnerable to pirating (east coast of Africa, among other places).

In short, this is going to take a while.

Disclosure: My career in the merchant marine ended when I discovered how susceptible I am to sea sickness. That amounted to about a year and a half at the academy. Yeah, the surprising things you find out about people. Some of this is from memory, and some I looked up, so if I have something wrong, the fault is mine alone.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 26, 2021 06:39PM
WHERE ARE THE AVENGERS WHEN YOU NEED THEM?!?

P.S. Nearly 80,000 HP at 79 r.p.m.? Good God.



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2021 06:41PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: NPR: "It 'Might Take Weeks' To Free Ship Stuck In Suez Canal"
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: March 26, 2021 08:15PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
btfc
High tides will peak soon, and should help.

“ I think the biggest issue is if there are earth excavators near enough to do the work. “

I read that to bring in cranes large enough to move shipping containers would be a difficult endeavor.

I read that there's not a crane in Egypt tall enough to reach the top.

They need some heavy lift helicopters and low winds.
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