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Replaceable battery!
Posted by: JPK
Date: April 22, 2021 11:10AM
Maybe things are changing at apple?

"AirTag is designed to keep going more than a year on a standard battery you can easily replace."

JPK
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: mattkime
Date: April 22, 2021 11:22AM
I don't believe that at all!



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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: archipirata
Date: April 22, 2021 11:24AM
Blasphemy!



Athens, OH
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: jdc
Date: April 22, 2021 11:25AM
Quote
JPK
Maybe things are changing at apple?

smiley-laughing001 smiley-laughing001 smiley-laughing001

13" M1 MBP has 58 watt battery, can go 17 hours web browsing.

Current 16" MBP has a 99 watt battery. If the new M1X chip were to use 50% more battery, and the MBP keeps the same 99 watt battery... you are talking near 30 hours of web surfing. Three 8 hour work days without needing a charge? Finding a hard time justifying all the extra engineering for a replaceable battery.

And... external portable battery packs.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 11:39AM
Yea, I think this is just a situation where the coin cell just happens to be the better solution. Otherwise, they'd have to build the battery and charging into the AirTag and you'd probably end up with an external wireless charger you'd have to keep track of. And if the AirTag now needs to be charged once a month or six months, instead of the battery changed once a year, is that worth it? Plus, instead of a quick battery change, now you have to pull the AirTag from use in order to charge it, then remember to re-attach it to whatever you were tracking. If they had a battery that could last, say, 5 years, rechargeable or not, they'd probably have gone that route and said eWaste be damned!
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: MartyStickle
Date: April 22, 2021 02:05PM
Can the airtag be used with an iPhone Xs or does one have to have a newer one?



Asheville, NC Area
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 02:25PM
Quote
MartyStickle
Can the airtag be used with an iPhone Xs or does one have to have a newer one?

Probably depends on how you want to use it.

System Requirements and Compatibility
  • Apple ID
  • iPhone and iPod touch models with iOS 14.5 or later
  • iPad models with iPadOS 14.5 or later

Precision Finding compatible with:
  • iPhone 11
  • iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max
  • iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini
  • iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: p8712
Date: April 22, 2021 02:33PM
Quote
JPK
Maybe things are changing at apple?

"AirTag is designed to keep going more than a year on a standard battery you can easily replace."

JPK

Replacement battery costs more than new airtag. (Probably!)
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: jdc
Date: April 22, 2021 03:08PM
Quote
p8712
Replacement battery costs more than new airtag. (Probably!)

I think you missed the /sarcasm/ tag.

2032s are under a buck.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: jonny
Date: April 22, 2021 03:19PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
JPK
Maybe things are changing at apple?
Finding a hard time justifying all the extra engineering for a replaceable battery.
You are in the minority. Especially for folks who keep their laptops for more than a few years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2021 03:20PM by jonny.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: jdc
Date: April 22, 2021 03:38PM
Quote
jonny
You are in the minority. Especially for folks who keep their laptops for more than a few years.

Im not sure how that makes a difference.

Apple will replace the battery for you a few years from now if you need it. 2019 16" MBPs are DIY if you have a tiny bit of tech skill.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 03:50PM
Quote
jonny
Quote
jdc
Quote
JPK
Maybe things are changing at apple?
Finding a hard time justifying all the extra engineering for a replaceable battery.
You are in the minority. Especially for folks who keep their laptops for more than a few years.

The days of just popping a battery out and putting a new one in are long over, and frankly don't need to come back. That made sense for situations like being on a plane, and carrying an extra battery to 2 to continue working. But now, you don't need that extra battery, and if you did, you'd use a USB-C PD Power Bank (which would be the same bulk as carrying extra batteries anyway).

And if the internal battery does need to be swapped, well, so far, it still can be, just with a little extra work, or at a small extra cost to just let Apple do it.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: April 22, 2021 03:59PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
p8712
Replacement battery costs more than new airtag. (Probably!)

I think you missed the /sarcasm/ tag.

2032s are under a buck.

Nah, you got those mixed up with deer nuts.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: graylocks
Date: April 22, 2021 04:04PM
so glad to learn it's a 2032 as those are cheap, ubiquitous and used in a number of devices I already own so i keep a stock of them on hand.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: p8712
Date: April 22, 2021 04:08PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
p8712
Replacement battery costs more than new airtag. (Probably!)

I think you missed the /sarcasm/ tag.

2032s are under a buck.

There's a tag? I just wait for newt to post.

Apple would produce the worlds first $10,000 2032. Now availible in purple!
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: April 22, 2021 04:59PM
Gareth,

You couldn't be more wrong. I looked into replacing the battery in a 2015 MBPr 15". Opening the case in itself is easy. Just removed a handful of screws. Replacing the battery? It requires a slew of steps ranging from removing the SSD, the I/O board cable covers, I/O cable, antenna cable, wireless card, camera cable, the fan to the use of adhesive solvent just to get the battery out.It's complicated enough that OWC recommends professional replacement. That's ridiculous and should be totally unnecessary.

Compare that to swapping the battery in a 2012 MBP which is just a handful of _very_ easy, straightforward steps. Open the case, remove a few screws, pop a battery connector. Swap the batteries. Put back the connector. Put back the screws. Put back the bottom of the case. Put back the screws. The actual replacement of the batter itself is done. No adhesive to deal with. No removing of multiple other components. You can do the actual hardware portion of the replacement in all of five to ten minutes. No professional necessary. At worst, this is how replacing the battery in a laptop - any laptop - should be.

The complexity required in Apple's other machines is simply unnecessary in my opinion. Same goes for having to pay a professional to do it for me.

Robert
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: April 22, 2021 05:01PM
it's a 2032 as those are cheap, ubiquitous and used in a number of devices I already own so i keep a stock of them on hand.


Exactly.

I've got a ton of devices that use that battery.

I was really glad to see that Apple went down that road.

Replacing trackers every year is just another subscription I don't want.

I had somebody's trackers with replaceable batteries.

The trackers were junk and pretty impossible to open cleanly, no instructions were provided.

I'm looking forward to using them with the U1 chip in my 12 mini.





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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: April 22, 2021 05:39PM
Quote
Robert M
Gareth,

You couldn't be more wrong. I looked into replacing the battery in a 2015 MBPr 15". Opening the case in itself is easy. Just removed a handful of screws. Replacing the battery? It requires a slew of steps ranging from removing the SSD, the I/O board cable covers, I/O cable, antenna cable, wireless card, camera cable, the fan to the use of adhesive solvent just to get the battery out.It's complicated enough that OWC recommends professional replacement. That's ridiculous and should be totally unnecessary.

Compare that to swapping the battery in a 2012 MBP which is just a handful of _very_ easy, straightforward steps. Open the case, remove a few screws, pop a battery connector. Swap the batteries. Put back the connector. Put back the screws. Put back the bottom of the case. Put back the screws. The actual replacement of the batter itself is done. No adhesive to deal with. No removing of multiple other components. You can do the actual hardware portion of the replacement in all of five to ten minutes. No professional necessary. At worst, this is how replacing the battery in a laptop - any laptop - should be.

The complexity required in Apple's other machines is simply unnecessary in my opinion. Same goes for having to pay a professional to do it for me.

Robert

And yet the cost to have either of those machines battery replaced is pretty much the same from Apple....[support.apple.com]

Batteries for most Macs have been $129 for the last 15 years.



C(-)ris
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 05:53PM
Quote
Robert M
Gareth,

You couldn't be more wrong. I looked into replacing the battery in a 2015 MBPr 15". Opening the case in itself is easy. Just removed a handful of screws. Replacing the battery? It requires a slew of steps ranging from removing the SSD, the I/O board cable covers, I/O cable, antenna cable, wireless card, camera cable, the fan to the use of adhesive solvent just to get the battery out.It's complicated enough that OWC recommends professional replacement. That's ridiculous and should be totally unnecessary.

Compare that to swapping the battery in a 2012 MBP which is just a handful of _very_ easy, straightforward steps. Open the case, remove a few screws, pop a battery connector. Swap the batteries. Put back the connector. Put back the screws. Put back the bottom of the case. Put back the screws. The actual replacement of the batter itself is done. No adhesive to deal with. No removing of multiple other components. You can do the actual hardware portion of the replacement in all of five to ten minutes. No professional necessary. At worst, this is how replacing the battery in a laptop - any laptop - should be.

The complexity required in Apple's other machines is simply unnecessary in my opinion. Same goes for having to pay a professional to do it for me.

Robert

Pismo (2000): 50 Wh (100 Wh) / 5 hrs (9-10 hrs) / 5.7 - 6.1 lbs
15" 2012: 77.5 Wh / 7 hrs / 5.6 lbs
15" 2015: 99.5 Wh / 9 hrs / 4.5 lbs
16: 2020: 100 Wh / 11 hrs / 4.3 lbs

And the newer machines are even better with battery life. At a certain point, you just have to accept the trade offs. Sure, the Pismo was amazing with dual hotswapable batteries, but nowadays, how many people want to carry around a laptop that large to accommodate the mechanisms to do so?

And the directions to swap a 2015 battery do look exceedingly complicated, but they also appear to be overly cautious and unnecessary. I'm fairly certain I've watched YouTube videos where all they remove is the battery and put the new one in. One day, I'll be doing that swap myself, so I'll see how it goes. And if I have to remove everything, so be it, I've done enough MBP logic board swaps to be comfortable doing it. And this isn't a procedure you need to do monthly, or even annually, it's literally a once every few years, maybe (unless you buy a garbage battery as a replacement).

I loved my Pismo, and my 15" 2012, but when I hold a 2012 next to a 2015, I'll take the inconvenience of the battery swap hassle and/or expense any day.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: April 22, 2021 05:56PM
C(-)ris,

That doesn't negate anything I said in my post. Replacing a batteries in newer Macbooks these days is unnecessary complex. Your price is off a bit, too. Priced out a new battery for a 2015 MBPr 13". The battery was over $200 for the actual battery. Even Micro Center, which uses Apple OEM batteries, was well over $300 for the replacement between the battery and labor.

Robert
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 06:06PM
Quote
Robert M
C(-)ris,

That doesn't negate anything I said in my post. Replacing a batteries in newer Macbooks these days is unnecessary complex. Your price is off a bit, too. Priced out a new battery for a 2015 MBPr 13". The battery was over $200 for the actual battery. Even Micro Center, which uses Apple OEM batteries, was well over $300 for the replacement between the battery and labor.

Robert

Hate to break it to you, but per C(-)ris's link, you could have just had Apple do the replacement for $199 (battery and labor included). Or did you check with Apple first, and maybe that machine is too old now for them to do the replacement themselves?
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: April 22, 2021 06:14PM
Quote
Robert M
C(-)ris,

That doesn't negate anything I said in my post. Replacing a batteries in newer Macbooks these days is unnecessary complex. Your price is off a bit, too. Priced out a new battery for a 2015 MBPr 13". The battery was over $200 for the actual battery. Even Micro Center, which uses Apple OEM batteries, was well over $300 for the replacement between the battery and labor.

Robert

How hard is it to pay $129 and throw it in a box and mail it to Apple? Or wander down to an Apple store? Those prices are labor included.

EDIT: A 2015 will not be obsolete yet, that is only 6 years old. Give it a few more years. There are probably some 2015 models sold as refurbs still under Applecare.



C(-)ris
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2021 06:15PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: April 22, 2021 07:46PM
C(-)ris and Gareth,

Micro Center was correct about the price for the battery for the '15 MBPr. $199 plus tax, which makes it over $200. The excessive cost was the battery plus the labor and tax. Even if Apple can replace the battery in the '15 MBPr 13" for $199.99 (plus tax), the reality is the price is actually irrelevant. None of what you're saying negates my point. Apple made replacing the battery in its machines ridiculously needless complex. I shouldn't have to pay Apple or a professional to replace the battery. I should be able to buy a battery (OEM or aftermarket) and install it myself with minimal fuss. Period.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2021 07:48PM by Robert M.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 22, 2021 08:05PM
Quote
Robert M
Apple made replacing the battery in its machines ridiculously needless complex.

No, they made it "tedious and time consuming" from this video from iFixIt: [www.youtube.com]

That's not in real-time, so yes, it takes an hour-ish to do the battery replacement, but for the 13", it looks like all you really have to remove are the speakers (easy) and then deal with the adhesive.

It's a trade-off. Do you want a MBP that weighs a pound more so you can easily replace a battery the once every few years you might need to do it?
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: April 22, 2021 09:42PM
Quote
Gareth
Quote
Robert M
Apple made replacing the battery in its machines ridiculously needless complex.

No, they made it "tedious and time consuming" from this video from iFixIt: [www.youtube.com]

That's not in real-time, so yes, it takes an hour-ish to do the battery replacement, but for the 13", it looks like all you really have to remove are the speakers (easy) and then deal with the adhesive.

It's a trade-off. Do you want a MBP that weighs a pound more so you can easily replace a battery the once every few years you might need to do it?

Not only does it weigh a pound more, it has less runtime as well since the plastic takes up more space.

It was a genius move to use the actual metal shell of the laptop as the support/shell for the battery saving all that space and extending battery capacity.



C(-)ris
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Forrest
Date: April 22, 2021 11:21PM
The old Apple TV silver remote also has a user replaceable CR2032 battery which lasts a few years.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: April 23, 2021 06:26AM
Gareth,

Needlessly tedious, time consuming and unnecessarily complex. Compare replacing the batteries in these models:

[eshop.macsales.com]

[eshop.macsales.com]

[eshop.macsales.com]

The issue of weight doesn't hold water. The MBA is a very light machine, replacing the battery is amazingly easy. Using the shell of the laptop for support for the battery? Sure. Alternatives to adhesive are available.

Look at the internals of the last generation Intel iMac as compared to the M1 iMac. Apple is touting how much less "stuff" is in the M1. The same can be said for Intel Macbooks in comparison to M1 Macbooks. With the M1 chip combining multiple components into a single component and reducing the amount of hardware that needs to be crammed into the case of a laptop, makes the argument for an easier to replace battery all the more compelling.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2021 09:20AM by Robert M.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: JPK
Date: April 23, 2021 08:12AM
Although I gotta say, I replace batteries in a couple of 2015 MBAs and it took about 3 minutes to do it. I almost consider that 'replaceable'.

I still have my Dad's old white MacBook white with a replaceable battery. That machine weighs about 4x what my MBA weighs. A replaceable battery is pretty cool!


JPK
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: jonny
Date: April 23, 2021 10:19AM
Quote
Robert M
Gareth,

Needlessly tedious, time consuming and unnecessarily complex. Compare replacing the batteries in these models:

[eshop.macsales.com]

[eshop.macsales.com]

[eshop.macsales.com]

The issue of weight doesn't hold water. The MBA is a very light machine, replacing the battery is amazingly easy. Using the shell of the laptop for support for the battery? Sure. Alternatives to adhesive are available.

Look at the internals of the last generation Intel iMac as compared to the M1 iMac. Apple is touting how much less "stuff" is in the M1. The same can be said for Intel Macbooks in comparison to M1 Macbooks. With the M1 chip combining multiple components into a single component and reducing the amount of hardware that needs to be crammed into the case of a laptop, makes the argument for an easier to replace battery all the more compelling.

Robert

Amen.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Gareth
Date: April 23, 2021 10:48AM
Quote
Robert M
The issue of weight doesn't hold water. The MBA is a very light machine, replacing the battery is amazingly easy. Using the shell of the laptop for support for the battery? Sure. Alternatives to adhesive are available.

We'll never get an Apples to Apples comparison, but even in the MBA line, going from the 2017 13" with screw replaceable battery to the 2018 13" glued in battery, there was a 0.2 lb reduction in weight. Going from the 2012 MBP 15" that is "so easy to replace" to the 2015 MBP 15" glued in battery there is a 1 lb reduction in weight and a 28% INCREASE in battery capacity. These are redesigned cases, which is why we'll never really know how much the glued in battery is saving us.

Apple has been known to reverse course (butterfly back to scissor keyboard, potentially removing Touchbar and adding back in MagSafe and HDMI, we'll see), but those are changes that effect practically EVERY USER ON A DAILY BASIS. A battery change? That *might* effect half the users once every few years at most?

I'm all for user repairability, and despite the troubles, these batteries are still user replaceable. It might be outside the comfort range for some, but if an OWC battery is $88 and an Apple replacement with labor is $199, I'd say that at least Apple is offering a reasonable replacement option.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: deckeda
Date: April 23, 2021 11:12AM
Aaaand this gave me a flashback to an old PowerBook 180 I briefly played with. I never really used it or needed such a thing circa 2001, and yet in an act of insanity bought an external battery pack designed to complement it. It was flat and intended to sit below it I guess.
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Re: Replaceable battery!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: April 23, 2021 11:20AM
Gareth,

You're playing semantics. There is user-replaceable that even a non-technical person can do with the aid of a video (instructions of some kind). What you're considering still user-replaceable is stretches the limit of that phrase to the breaking point. When a replacing a part reaches that level, I no longer consider it user-replaceable.

Robert
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