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Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: April 22, 2021 10:39PM
Indonesia's 40 year-old diesel-electric sub, the KRI Nanggala-402 went
missing off Bali on Wednesday morning.

Quote
USA Today -
Rescue efforts continue for a missing Indonesian submarine with 53 crew
aboard, believed sunk in deep water about 60 miles north of Bali.
Naval authorities said the sub's oxygen would be depleted by Saturday.
The extreme depth may make recovery impossible, authorities said.
The KRI Nanggala-402 sub is thought to be 2,000 to 2,300 feet deep,
which threatens to crush the vessel. Ahn Guk-hyeon, an official from
South Korea’s Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering, told The
Associated Press that the collapse depth for the submarine was 200
meters (656 feet) when Daewoo refitted the vessel's internal structures
and systems in 2009-2012.
Full story

Hoping for the best but reading the details this appears to be a real
tragedy for the crew, their loved ones, and the citizens of Indonesia.

For reference, the last d-e attack subs of the US Navy were the "Tang class"
and ended active service in 1983. Tang class subs were 100ft longer
than the KRI Nanggala, carried a crew of 83, and had a similar depth rating.



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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: April 23, 2021 04:42AM
This makes me think of the loss of a Russian boat, the Kursk.

Being a diesel boat, the Nanggala can't make its own O2, and relies on LiOH scrubbers to extend its breathable atmosphere.

This doesn't look good, but I hope for the best.





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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: April 23, 2021 05:31AM
The last lost sub was Nov. 15, 2017. The Argentine Navy's ARA San Juan (S-42),
another German built diesel-electric. The 221-foot patrol sub disappeared in the
South Atlantic off the Argentine coast with a 44 member crew.

11/16/2018; the wreck of San Juan was found at a depth of 907m
(2,976 ft), 290 mi SE of Comodoro Rivadavia.
The submarine's imploded wreckage was strewn over an area of 86,000 sq ft.
[en.wikipedia.org])

I found this info on its 2013 "update" a bit disturbing;
The upgrade cost around 100 million pesos (US$12.4 million) and
comprised more than 500,000 work hours during which the submarine
was cut in half
and had its four MTU engines and batteries replaced.


Doing the math, if you don't include materials, that $12.4M works out
to < $25/hour labor cost.



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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: DP
Date: April 23, 2021 06:12AM
I would think that it went fast anyway. At 3-4 times the rated crush depth I can't see it surviving that, even when we see stories of subs that had been down deeper than their RCD and survived. But 3-4 times that depth?

God rest their souls...







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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: April 23, 2021 06:53AM
A magnetic signature has registered near the site of the last reported position. The depth is quite manageable at around 300 feet. Other ships are en route to the site. The air should be good until sometime Saturday.

Here is hoping this turns out well.



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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: DP
Date: April 23, 2021 08:40AM
The depth is quite manageable at around 300 feet

Wow. That's a big difference between a couple thousand feet!







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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: April 23, 2021 08:50AM
The depth is quite manageable at around 300 feet.


Holy Moly, that's great news!

300' is very doable for a DSRV, as long as the boat is fairly upright.

It'd take some nerve, but I think one could safely make a buoyant ascent from that depth, especially with something like a Steinke hood.

Maybe.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: raz
Date: April 23, 2021 09:12AM
Quote
RAMd®d
It'd take some nerve, but I think one could safely make a buoyant ascent from that depth, especially with something like a Steinke hood.

Maybe.

It's been a while since my SCUBA days, but assuming the sub's interior is at 1 atmosphere, then the ascent should not require a safety stop. Basically, it's like coming up from a free dive. No?



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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: Diana
Date: April 23, 2021 09:46AM
Quote
raz
Quote
RAMd®d
It'd take some nerve, but I think one could safely make a buoyant ascent from that depth, especially with something like a Steinke hood.

Maybe.

It's been a while since my SCUBA days, but assuming the sub's interior is at 1 atmosphere, then the ascent should not require a safety stop. Basically, it's like coming up from a free dive. No?

If I remember right (and it’s been a LONG while) 300 feet is about the limit for an extended oxygen dive as oxygen starts becoming toxic at such pressures. Sea level is one atmosphere, 33 feet down doubles the pressure, at 66 feet the pressure is now 3 atmospheres, etc. as long as the body stays at 1 atmosphere it isn’t a problem. Having said that, I am hopeful for a full rescue and recovery.
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Re: Not looking hopeful for missing Indonesian Navy sub
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: April 23, 2021 07:38PM
Technical diving lesson from my younger, more adventurous days.

Pure Oxygen is toxic at 20 feet. The Oxygen won't kill you but it causes seizures which generally means you spit out your regulator and drown. If you don't spit it and someone brings you back to a safe depth, you'll be fine.

A sub is at one atmosphere [1ATA], a swimmer exiting it could safely ascend to the surface with no need to decompress. Even without a Steinke Hood or Momsen Lung, a swimmer could make it to the surface in theory. This is done by putting the swimmer in the lockout chamber, equalizing the pressure [at 300', it would mean around 12ATA] The swimmer exits the chamber and floats upward - no swimming] while allowing the air in his lungs to freely flow out. It would essentially be a very, very long burp. When you reach the surface your lungs are now at 1ATA. In reality, most are not going to make it from that depth. The current device is a Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE), it is good from 600 feet.

At 300 feet, a mixed gas diver could safely swim down to the sub, enter the lockout, suit up a survivor and bring them back to the surface. There would need to be a hyperbaric chamber available, but it is doable. I've personally been to 270 feet, and have several friends who have been to 400+ feet on SCUBA, so this is not hypothetical.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

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UPDATE: sub 402 now declared as "sunk, no hope"
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: April 24, 2021 06:46AM
[forums.macresource.com]
Update: Indonesia Navy declares its KRI Nanggala 402 sub as "sunk"



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