I've been a Zappa fan for a long time and one thing that I ALWAYS heard back in the 70s was that Franks was WAY ahead of his time.

That turned out to be quite wrong. Music in general has NOT gone in the direction that Zappa was pointing - not even close. I'm sure there are ways to twist and spin it to make it seem true, but I'm not buying it.

So I think back... what music have I heard that initially seemed really out of place, but some time later didn't seem that way.

For me, the ultimate example is Peter Gabriel's 3rd album (called 'Peter Gabriel' like the previous 2, but has since become known as Peter Gabriel 3 or 'Melt' (because of the cover)).

I was a huge Genesis/Peter Gabriel fan in those days. I remember anxiously listening to every new release in this period. Often this prog-rock was a little weird and would take a listen or two before it started to make sense.

Peter Gabriel 3 was a unique experience for me. I put that record on the turntable, fired it up and and was completely baffled. Every song was fricken weird and generally unlikable. The only song that I instantly connected with was 'Not One of Us' - the 8th track. It had an amazing interlude that was so strange and wonderful - I loved it.

But it wasn't enough to make me want to listen to the whole album (in those days, bands I like made ALBUMS - all the songs were good). I put it back on the shelf - I had plenty of other music that I liked much more.

I was stunned to learn that the album had a hit single and was doing pretty well in the US.

It was probably 4-5 years before I really came to understand and enjoy the album as a whole.

Yes' Relayer took a couple of years to enjoy and now it's one of my favorites, but that was certainly not 'ground breaking'.

You got any examples in your life of music that was too far ahead of its time when it came out?

Kraftwerk.

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Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.

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Kraftwerk.

wow - that's a good one

I remember a very early hit single. I didn't like it much, but the rest of the world was sounding like that a few years later.

Paul's Boutique. I really disliked it for quite a while but for some reason kept coming back to it and came to love it. Not really realizing it's potential and why something like it can never be made again. That realization came much later.

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Kraftwerk.

wow - that's a good one.

Probably the best example there is.

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It is what it is.

Ahead of its time, for me - Mahavishnu Orchestra The Inner Mounting Flame, 1971. At this time time I was already a professional musician. I could play just about any rock or acoustic rock song that was out before and after that time. Then The Inner Mounting Flame came out and I was totally lost. I couldn’t figure out what these guys were doing, couldn’t count it, couldn’t play it. My introduction to jazz was through Mickey Baker guitar method books but this stuff was totally alien to me.

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JoeM

I still have no idea how Mahavishnu Orchestra performed that stuff live or even how it originated. It seemed like a whole band improvising together, but then there would be a change and everyone was THERE in sync.

Only saw him once with Remember Shakti in Berkeley around 2008. That was absolutely thrilling. Saw Ravi Shankar (with Anoushka) the next night. Great double header!

Bach

Lots of the early Synthesizer masters. Wendy Carlos. Rick Wakeman. Jean Michel Jarre. Larry Fast.

The fact that they could wring such sound from a heap of components was amazing.

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I still have no idea how Mahavishnu Orchestra performed that stuff live or even how it originated. It seemed like a whole band improvising together, but then there would be a change and everyone was THERE in sync.

Only saw him once with Remember Shakti in Berkeley around 2008. That was absolutely thrilling. Saw Ravi Shankar (with Anoushka) the next night. Great double header!

I dragged my brother, who played bass with me, to see them at the Schaefer Music Festival, held in Central Park, New York on August 18, 1973. They were recording the live album, Between Nothingness & Eternity that night. My brother who was into soul and R&B couldn’t get into it and after a while of them blowing, in a quiet section yelled out “Play a chord”. I remember getting the record when it came out and faintly hearing him yell it on there.

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JoeM

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Lew Zealand
Paul's Boutique. I really disliked it for quite a while but for some reason kept coming back to it and came to love it. Not really realizing it's potential and why something like it can never be made again. That realization came much later.

This is my deserted island album. There is a depth of musical history here that is entirely incongruent with people’s perceptions of what the beastie boys were and the impact this had on future music of the genre. That said, the lions share of credit really rests on the Dust Brothers for mining the art of sampling in a way that had never been done at that point and likely never will because of the expense of clearing rights to that much musical history.

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Bo

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Lew Zealand
Paul's Boutique. I really disliked it for quite a while but for some reason kept coming back to it and came to love it. Not really realizing it's potential and why something like it can never be made again. That realization came much later.

This is my deserted island album. There is a depth of musical history here that is entirely incongruent with people’s perceptions of what the beastie boys were and the impact this had on future music of the genre. That said, the lions share of credit really rests on the Dust Brothers for mining the art of sampling in a way that had never been done at that point and likely never will because of the expense of clearing rights to that much musical history.

I am not a fan of rap. I try listening to it and I have to turn it off after a few minutes, it really unnerves me and makes me anxious. After your suggestions I listened to this Beastie Boys album, and... well... I'm ok with it. I kinda like it. I think it's due to the production, the dense sampling that is blended creatively like a fine painting.

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The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa

In the Year 2525

Zager & Evans, I believe. It's all in the title!

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Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

Chuck Berry. No, really, I'm serious.

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Hurts like a bastid...

Claude Debussy 1862-1918
"...developed his own style of harmony and orchestral colouring, derided – and unsuccessfully resisted – by much of the musical establishment of the day. His works have strongly influenced a wide range of composers including Béla Bartók, Olivier Messiaen, George Benjamin, and the jazz pianist and composer Bill Evans."

Igor Stravinsky 1882–1971
"...transformed the way in which subsequent composers thought about rhythmic structure and was largely responsible for Stravinsky's enduring reputation as a revolutionary who pushed the boundaries of musical design."

Classically influenced artists who transposed/adapted the classic form to
more modern forms.
While Zappa lacked the 'formal' classical training, he was influenced by
his grandparent's Italian music & operas and was a huge admirer of
the French composer Edgard Varèse.
Another was Keith Emerson. His dad was an amateur pianist and sent
young Keith to various "local little old ladies" for piano and music lessons.
He learned to read & write music and gained his interest in the classics.
Influenced not only by Bach and Mussorgsky; he got inspiration from
20th century composers like Bartók, Aaron Copland, Janácek & Ginastera.
Additionally, Emerson was known to enjoy the work of Dave Brubeck.

And, if you have never heard Wayne Shorter, you might enjoy his 'genius'.
[www.youtube.com]

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DemComm Records 2021 Greatest Hits
includes:
Taxman by Joe & Nancy's Rich Ice Cream Band
The Humpty Dance by The Harris-Brown Hookup
Lets Spend The Night Together by The Fang-Swalwell Gang
Díaz-Canel Is A Friend of Ours by The AOC Squad
My Old Kentucky Retirement Home by MitchMcC & The Soggy Boxer Boys
Burning Down The House by Merrick & The Goons
Back In the USSR by Bernie's Red Square Trio





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2021 01:28PM by MrNoBody.

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MrNoBody
And, if you have never heard Wayne Shorter, you might enjoy his 'genius'.
[www.youtube.com]

Saw Weather Report in a smallish venue in the late 70s.