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U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: DP
Date: May 17, 2021 07:54AM
U.S. airlines may need to start weighing passengers in order to comply with FAA rules. For safety reasons, carriers need to calculate an aircraft’s weight and balance, and it has to be within allowable limits for the plane. However the assumptions they’ve been using for passengers are outdated. Americans are getting fatter, and the federal government wants airlines to find out how much fatter their passengers have gotten, at least for smaller aircraft.

[viewfromthewing.com]







Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 17, 2021 07:57AM
.....no weigh......



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: DP
Date: May 17, 2021 07:59AM
Big weigh!







Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 17, 2021 08:01AM
Just like buying meat - pay by the pound



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 17, 2021 08:10AM
The weight of the carry-on luggage might be a bigger unknown than the passenger weight. They at least know how many passengers there are, but they don't know what those passengers are carrying on. I personally like that there is no weight restriction for carry-on bags as there are for checked bags.

Seems like just updating their assumptions would be easier than adding new steps to the check-in process to slow things down.

Or maybe weigh the plane before and after passengers board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 08:11AM by GGD.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 17, 2021 08:19AM
Quote
Ombligo
Just like buying meat - pay by the pound

agree smiley
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 17, 2021 08:22AM
....Bill....Gates....???



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: PeterB
Date: May 17, 2021 08:29AM
Just so long as it's not this aircraft.






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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 17, 2021 08:40AM
Quote
GGD
The weight of the carry-on luggage might be a bigger unknown than the passenger weight. They at least know how many passengers there are, but they don't know what those passengers are carrying on. I personally like that there is no weight restriction for carry-on bags as there are for checked bags.

Seems like just updating their assumptions would be easier than adding new steps to the check-in process to slow things down.

Or maybe weigh the plane before and after passengers board.

I believe that there are restrictions for carry-on weight. They aren't widely known or enforced.

If only they'd control size in seat issues. I pay for a seat and expect to be able to use the space I'm paying for. I shouldn't be subjected to having someone else take up a portion of my space.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 17, 2021 08:41AM
Or how about they just cram fewer seats on the plane, so we have more than a milk crate-sized space per person?
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: May 17, 2021 08:43AM
Quote
Ombligo
Just like buying meat - pay by the pound

Two out of three do not agree...



(but I agree.)



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 17, 2021 08:59AM
Quote
macphanatic

If only they'd control size in seat issues. I pay for a seat and expect to be able to use the space I'm paying for. I shouldn't be subjected to having someone else take up a portion of my space.

The only way to control that is to have larger seats. Airlines don't allow someone to buy multiple seats for one person. If the flight is full, they will "bump" your "extra" seat to put another body on the plane.



C(-)ris
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 17, 2021 09:12AM
My son is very large. Tall and wide. He's been losing mass lately, which is good. We arranged to purchase two seats when he flew a small commuter airline to Montreal a few years ago. The flight he took to Ireland had wider seats so he was okay.

Airline seats are designed for smaller people. And have been getting smaller and smaller. Try traveling on an Asian airline in-country. A tall person won't fit. A person with a non-obese BMI won't fit.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: May 17, 2021 09:25AM
Airlines and their continuing progress ro treat humans as cargo.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: May 17, 2021 09:35AM
I've long expected airfare to be based a $/kg basis. That way..."larger" passengers can be given a larger seat, smaller passengers can be giving a smaller seat without everyone feeling cramped.



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 17, 2021 10:02AM
Quote
Acer
Or how about they just cram fewer seats on the plane, so we have more than a milk crate-sized space per person?

smiley-laughing001 $$$$$$$$$!
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: May 17, 2021 10:04AM
When I used to work in the civil aircraft industry, we used 170 pounds as the standard weight for a person (because that's what the regulations allowed for). I was a stress/structures engineer. Used to smirk when I did my calculations. Always wondered when they'd change this.

However they do it, they need to do it humanely (or at the least so in the interest of public relations).
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 17, 2021 10:10AM
Quote
ztirffritz
I've long expected airfare to be based a $/kg basis. That way..."larger" passengers can be given a larger seat, smaller passengers can be giving a smaller seat without everyone feeling cramped.

huh smiley
How do they change the seat size mix that would be required for each flight, or even know what it should be before check-in/boarding???
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 17, 2021 10:12AM
Many planes do have larger seats for sale, they're called First Class and Business Class.

And there are apparently ways to purchase a second seat for extra room.

[thepointsguy.com]
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 17, 2021 10:23AM
.....this is just the weigh of the world......forget it Jake.....It's Chinatown.....



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Pam
Date: May 17, 2021 10:30AM
I’m a small person at 5’4” and 112# and I am cramped in airline seats. Including legroom. It’s beyond ridiculous.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: May 17, 2021 10:44AM
Quote
GGD
Many planes do have larger seats for sale, they're called First Class and Business Class.

And there are apparently ways to purchase a second seat for extra room.

[thepointsguy.com]

There are ways to PURCHASE one... but, once on the aircraft, I can guarantee you that 90% of the time, if the flight is full, the crew WILL assign that seat to someone, whether you paid for it or not, because it was "empty". And no, the airline will not refund your money.



Paul F.
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Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 17, 2021 11:27AM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
GGD
Many planes do have larger seats for sale, they're called First Class and Business Class.

And there are apparently ways to purchase a second seat for extra room.

[thepointsguy.com]

There are ways to PURCHASE one... but, once on the aircraft, I can guarantee you that 90% of the time, if the flight is full, the crew WILL assign that seat to someone, whether you paid for it or not, because it was "empty". And no, the airline will not refund your money.

Yup. Even when it wasn't required we purchased a ticket for our daughter just to get the middle seat and have a row to ourselves.



C(-)ris
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 17, 2021 11:32AM
I’m 6’7”+ and about 270 and have avoided flying for several years.

I remember when flying was fun; you weren’t treated like cattle and people were happy and friendly.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 17, 2021 11:41AM
Quote
btfc
I’m 6’7”+ and about 270 and have avoided flying for several years.

I remember when flying was fun; you weren’t treated like cattle and people were happy and friendly.

I remember smoking on airplanes, and being able to bring your own booze onboard, and stewardesses that...grinning smiley
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: May 17, 2021 11:46AM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
btfc
I’m 6’7”+ and about 270 and have avoided flying for several years.

I remember when flying was fun; you weren’t treated like cattle and people were happy and friendly.

I remember smoking on airplanes, and being able to bring your own booze onboard, and stewardesses that...grinning smiley

See, some things did get better.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 17, 2021 11:50AM
This could mean the end for Walmart Air Express.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 17, 2021 11:51AM
Back in the late 1980s when I was at Aviano Air Base, I did manual load planning of cargo aircraft as an exercise extra duty. We calculated the center of gravity changes that loads created on cargo aircraft. After we learned how to do this, we were then allowed to use a computer to do these calculations. We were also informed that aircraft had the means of shifting fuel around to balance an aircraft if needed.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 17, 2021 12:08PM
Weight would be considered health information. Not sure they are going to want to collect that....



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: vision63
Date: May 17, 2021 12:18PM
Airlines are full of it.

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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Michael
Date: May 17, 2021 01:20PM
We flew Southwest to Las Vegas last month and, "Every seat is sold so take any seat you can find." It turns out that wasn't exactly true. They had several very large customers and the flight attendants asked people to move around so that the big ones could sit on the aisle and not have somebody in the middle. I have no idea if they undersold the flights on purpose but it was interesting that ALL of the empty middle seats had a very large person sitting on the aisle row. I appreciated that they accommodated the big passengers and also didn't have other people getting squeezed by them.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: raz
Date: May 17, 2021 01:36PM
There are very few things that annoy me more than paying for my 14 inches of airline seat and having one or two overweight neighbors overflowing into my space.



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Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: May 17, 2021 01:47PM
It doesn't even necessarily need to be someone who's overweight. Just big. 6'7", 270lbs mentioned above doesn't necessarily sound overweight. Just plain big (relative to the rest of us short people.) We're essentially cargo on an airplane. Their profit/loss is based on number of tickets sold, but that is someone limited by the size of the passengers. It seems reasonable to me to charge by the kilo. They could have bench seats that are configurable as 1,2 or 3 seats depending on the size/proportions of the passenger. Someone who is 6'7" though is never going to be comfy. When I was in college I worked in the Pittsburgh airport and saw the Steelers plane come through. Kevin Greene was possible the largest human I ever saw in person. His stats list him as 6'3", 250lbs, but I think that under reported his height/weight by about 3" and probably 50lbs. His chest was about 40" thick. The guy was a stump. No way he fit in a standard plane seat.



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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 17, 2021 02:02PM
Quote
ztirffritz
6'7", 270lbs mentioned above doesn't necessarily sound overweight.

Sorry, but by CDC standards, 6'7" and 270 lbs is "obese".

"Your BMI is 30.4, indicating your weight is in the Obese category for adults of your height."

"For your height, a normal weight range would be from 164 to 221 pounds."


[www.cdc.gov]
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 17, 2021 02:26PM
Quote
vision63
Airlines are full of it.


Carrying capacity is different than a balanced load. I'm sure that they carefully positioned the mounting brackets on the 747 to center the load. Had they moved it too far forward or back, there could be major issues or a catastrophe.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 17, 2021 02:35PM
If you saw me, you wouldn’t call me obese.

When I was in my 20s I was biking at least 400-500 miles a week and my weight would range between 195 and 205. You would have called me skinny.

In my 30s I was guiding trips, hiking over 100 miles a week in summer, and backcountry skiing all winter. Swimming a mile fairly regularly. Weighed between 225 and 240.

Since then my aerobic activity is down but my strength related activities are way up. Come to btfc’s fitness club if you want to see.


164 for my frame is laughable. I’d look quite thin at 221. I’m just beginning my heavy work season and my weight will be about 255-265.

With a huge amount of bike, hike and pool time I’d get down to about 240-245. Did that a few years ago. That’s a good weight for my build.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 04:30PM by btfc.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Janit
Date: May 17, 2021 03:00PM
Quote
btfc
If you saw me, you wouldn’t call me obese.

When I was in my 20s I was biking at least 400-500 miles a week and my weight would range between 195 and 205. You would have called me skinny.

In my 30s I was guiding trips, hiking over 100 miles a week in summer, and backcountry skiing all winter. Weighed between 225 and 240.

Since then my aerobic activity is down but my strength related activities are way up. Come to btfc’s fitness club if you want to see.


164 for my frame is laughable. I’d look quite thin at 221. I’m just beginning my heavy work season and my weight will be about 255-265.

With a huge amount of bike, hike and pool time I’d get down to about 240-245. Did that a few years ago. That’s a good weight for my build.

BMI does not adequately consider fat vs muscle.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Michael
Date: May 17, 2021 03:08PM
Quote
btfc
If you saw me, you wouldn’t call me obese.

When I was in my 20s I was biking at least 400-500 miles a week and my weight would range between 195 and 205. You would have called me skinny.

In my 30s I was guiding trips, hiking over 100 miles a week in summer, and backcountry skiing all winter. Weighed between 225 and 240.

Since then my aerobic activity is down but my strength related activities are way up. Come to btfc’s fitness club if you want to see.


164 for my frame is laughable. I’d look quite thin at 221. I’m just beginning my heavy work season and my weight will be about 255-265.

With a huge amount of bike, hike and pool time I’d get down to about 240-245. Did that a few years ago. That’s a good weight for my build.

A mathematician, Nick Trefethen, published a letter in The Economist several years ago in which he argued that the classic BMI overestimates obesity in tall people and underestimates it in shorter people. He also noted that the classic BMI is also a problem for muscular people but said it's a smaller problem than it is for height. He proposed using a different formula and another person has developed a fill-in using that formula. At 6'7" and 270, you'd be "overweight" and your "New BMI Healthy Weight" would be between 179-242 lbs. Interestingly enough, you said that 240-245 is a good weight for your build. Sounds like the New BMI is right for you!

Nick Trefethen's letter and explanation: [people.maths.ox.ac.uk]

New BMI calculator: [people.maths.ox.ac.uk]
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 17, 2021 03:32PM
Quote
ztirffritz
It doesn't even necessarily need to be someone who's overweight. Just big.

Or broad. I have a broader-than-average rib cage and am 24" wide across my arms. Pretty cool most of the time, but it sucks on planes.



It is what it is.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 17, 2021 03:33PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
ztirffritz
6'7", 270lbs mentioned above doesn't necessarily sound overweight.

Sorry, but by CDC standards, 6'7" and 270 lbs is "obese".

"Your BMI is 30.4, indicating your weight is in the Obese category for adults of your height."

"For your height, a normal weight range would be from 164 to 221 pounds."


[www.cdc.gov]

...really?



It is what it is.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 17, 2021 03:43PM
Still chuckling over that 164 lb number. I haven’t weighed that since my freshman year football physical (High School). At the time I’d get teased for being skinny.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 03:48PM by btfc.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 17, 2021 03:44PM
Quote
Michael
Quote
btfc
If you saw me, you wouldn’t call me obese.

When I was in my 20s I was biking at least 400-500 miles a week and my weight would range between 195 and 205. You would have called me skinny.

In my 30s I was guiding trips, hiking over 100 miles a week in summer, and backcountry skiing all winter. Weighed between 225 and 240.

Since then my aerobic activity is down but my strength related activities are way up. Come to btfc’s fitness club if you want to see.


164 for my frame is laughable. I’d look quite thin at 221. I’m just beginning my heavy work season and my weight will be about 255-265.

With a huge amount of bike, hike and pool time I’d get down to about 240-245. Did that a few years ago. That’s a good weight for my build.

A mathematician, Nick Trefethen, published a letter in The Economist several years ago in which he argued that the classic BMI overestimates obesity in tall people and underestimates it in shorter people. He also noted that the classic BMI is also a problem for muscular people but said it's a smaller problem than it is for height. He proposed using a different formula and another person has developed a fill-in using that formula. At 6'7" and 270, you'd be "overweight" and your "New BMI Healthy Weight" would be between 179-242 lbs. Interestingly enough, you said that 240-245 is a good weight for your build. Sounds like the New BMI is right for you!

Nick Trefethen's letter and explanation: [people.maths.ox.ac.uk]

New BMI calculator: [people.maths.ox.ac.uk]

Not sure the accuracy of the new calculator either. My low end is 20 lbs below what I weighed in college. I had broad shoulders, a thick neck and no gut. There was no weigh I could drop to that weight. At this point, I don't know that I could get to the high range of the new calculator.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: May 17, 2021 04:23PM
Sorry, but by CDC standards...
RollingEyesSmiley5
Yeah the CDC, like they don't make mistakes?



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2021 04:23PM by MrNoBody.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 17, 2021 05:47PM
Quote
btfc
Still chuckling over that 164 lb number. I haven’t weighed that since my freshman year football physical (High School). At the time I’d get teased for being skinny.


I'm just under 6", and back in HS when I always weighed 155, I was skinny as a rail.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 17, 2021 05:59PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
btfc
Still chuckling over that 164 lb number. I haven’t weighed that since my freshman year football physical (High School). At the time I’d get teased for being skinny.


I'm just under 6", and back in HS when I always weighed 155, I was skinny as a rail.

Yes, 6’1” at the time.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 17, 2021 07:22PM
Quote
raz
There are very few things that annoy me more than paying for my 14 inches of airline seat and having one or two overweight neighbors overflowing into my space.

How do you feel about the space in front of you when someone fully reclines?
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: raz
Date: May 17, 2021 09:36PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
raz
There are very few things that annoy me more than paying for my 14 inches of airline seat and having one or two overweight neighbors overflowing into my space.

How do you feel about the space in front of you when someone fully reclines?

The 2.5 inches that the seat moves? I’d say I don’t care, but since my knees are already touching that seat … I’m not a fan



--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.
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Re: U.S. Airlines May Start Weighing Passengers At The Gate
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: May 18, 2021 12:26AM
Quote
DP
U.S. airlines may need to start weighing passengers in order to comply with FAA rules

They should have always been doing that—charge by the pound for passenger+luggage.
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