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Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 11:30AM
I've noticed this in many movies and TV shows, and don't understand why...

Characters holding their flashlights with the lamp/beam away from their thumb. I've never seen anyone do this in real life.



What am I missing?
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 27, 2021 11:39AM
Same reason people are holding guns sideways in movies. It looks menacing. In this case, they're holding flashlights the way killers hold knives when about to kill in movies. Menacing. Just like the front end of new cars look like monsters about to consume the cars in front of them. Menacing. Welcome to the 2020's - the decade of the menacing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 11:39AM by S. Pupp.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 27, 2021 11:45AM
....can you just hold........on for one more day.....????



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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: June 27, 2021 11:46AM
You may want to hold a flashlight like that if it's a 6 D-cell maglite or similar. That way you have dual purpose, a flashlight/billy club combo.

EDIT: Maglite, NOT maglight!



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 11:48AM by Rick-o.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 27, 2021 11:52AM
....I could be wrong but usually that involved a person holding a gun in the other hand.....so thought that police/FBI etc were trained to do that to make it easier to move the flashlight around.....



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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 27, 2021 11:53AM
When my super-bright LED flashlights have the on/off button on the butt, I sometimes hold them like that because I might have to turn the flashlight off quickly to avoid being blinded by a strong reflection or to avoid blinding someone who inadvertently stands in the wrong spot.

But that wouldn't come into play with the lousy flashlights they use in most TV shows and movies.



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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 27, 2021 12:12PM
It's so you can blind the bad guy if you encounter him. Maybe.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Buzz
Date: June 27, 2021 12:28PM
OK, hold it the other way if you're walking your dog for its nightly poopee run, or if you're walking a trail. But hold it as shown if you're in any sort of tactical situation. Unlike sideways guns on TV or in movies, they got the flashlight thing right.
==
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 12:37PM
Quote
Buzz
But hold it as shown if you're in any sort of tactical situation.
==

Why? What's the advantage?
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 12:45PM
Quote
Dennis S
It's so you can blind the bad guy if you encounter him. Maybe.

Couldn't you shine it in his face holding it the other way? I could.

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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: June 27, 2021 12:55PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Buzz
But hold it as shown if you're in any sort of tactical situation.
==

Why? What's the advantage?

I assume (if it’s a bigger flashlight) because it is in a deployable position as a club (you don’t have to raise it In order to strike, as it is already raised).
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: June 27, 2021 01:47PM
You can lower the flashlight, put your shooting wrist on the wrist holding the flashlight and put the light on target. Tactical lights have a bezel that can be used as a weapon as well.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Buzz
Date: June 27, 2021 02:05PM
Some tactical flashlights require the cap button to remain pressed to fire the light (AKA momentary switch), hence that grip. To hold the flashlight with your non-dominant hand, and brace your dominant hand while holding a gun also means the same grip, regardless of switch's action. Some smaller, specialized tactical flashlights have a ring around their midsection, and a more pronounced cap button that allows for a "cigar grip" so that you can hold the ring against a couple of fingers, and engage the button with part of your thumb, or its pad, while shooting.

Basically, any time you want to hold a flashlight at chest height or above, you have to grip it with your thumb on (or toward) the back. In a strange way, it's kinda nice to see a plethora of dog walkers here, rather than all tactically trained weekend warriors. But, if you want to go full warrior mode, you can get add-ons for the front and back of of larger Maglite type flashlights, or you can get mace style flashlights, and/or you can get any of the previous types w/ stun capabilities. They're not your grandfather's Oldsmobile flashlight anymore.
==
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 02:21PM
Quote
macphanatic
You can lower the flashlight, put your shooting wrist on the wrist holding the flashlight and put the light on target. Tactical lights have a bezel that can be used as a weapon as well.

How is this "normal" holding not just as useful (if not better)?


Watched the first episode of the new season of Bosch* last night, and there's a scene where Bosch and his Lieutenant go into an unlit hallway after a fire (no hidden criminals lurking), both carrying small (hand-size) flashlights in that fist-up manner; not "tactical" flashlights, no weapons drawn needing "shooting wrist", no reason at all to hold them that way that I can figure out (other than it's some kind of ersatz combat posturing).


*OT; excellent show.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 02:27PM
Quote
Buzz
Basically, any time you want to hold a flashlight at chest height or above, you have to grip it with your thumb on (or toward) the back.
==

If your thumb is on the back of the flashlight, that eliminates the above mentioned "flashlight/billy club combo" as there's nothing extending out beyond your thumb to swing at anyone.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 27, 2021 02:32PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
macphanatic
You can lower the flashlight, put your shooting wrist on the wrist holding the flashlight and put the light on target. Tactical lights have a bezel that can be used as a weapon as well.

How is this "normal" holding not just as useful (if not better)?

In your pic, the flashlight is directed away from where the gun is pointing.

Holding it in the grip from the OP does present a better profile if you're also aiming a gun. Just swing the gun up and rest the flashlight along the top or side and you've got a tight grip on both with good illumination of your potential target.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 02:33PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 02:36PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
macphanatic
You can lower the flashlight, put your shooting wrist on the wrist holding the flashlight and put the light on target. Tactical lights have a bezel that can be used as a weapon as well.

How is this "normal" holding not just as useful (if not better)?

In your pic, the flashlight is directed away from where the gun is pointing.

Holding it in the grip from the OP does present a better profile if you're also aiming a gun. Just swing the gun up and rest the flashlight along the top or side and you've got a tight grip on both with good illumination of your potential target.

OK, but then why hold the flashlight as in the OP if you're NOT holding a weapon, nor have any need to hold a weapon?
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Bernie
Date: June 27, 2021 04:28PM
Quote
Sarcany
When my super-bright LED flashlights have the on/off button on the butt, I sometimes hold them like that because I might have to turn the flashlight off quickly to avoid being blinded by a strong reflection or to avoid blinding someone who inadvertently stands in the wrong spot.

But that wouldn't come into play with the lousy flashlights they use in most TV shows and movies.

I have a Dual Switch Streamlight, button on the end.

I am never the point guy so I have not been trained to hold a flashlight.
I do have a holster for my Streamlight and when I draw it I use the side button and not the back.
When elevating to look higher, over, or down range so to speak I hold it that way. Once the hand is chest high or higher the thumb hold is more natural or comfortable.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 04:44PM
Here's an image from the Bosch scene I described above.



You can see how awkward it is for Bosch to point his little flashlight over his head holding it this way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 06:41PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: srf1957
Date: June 27, 2021 05:33PM
Here is an insructor. youtube pistol
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 27, 2021 06:49PM
Quote
srf1957
Here is an insructor. youtube pistol

So it seems the only reason to hold a flashlight that way is IF you also have, or are going to have, a handgun in your other hand. Otherwise there's no advantage to it.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 28, 2021 12:18AM
Otherwise there's no advantage to it.


Not true.

Ok, true, when considering you're comparing police/tactical use to non-police/tactical use.

First, most actual police these days carry modern, rechargeable tactical LED flashlights.

They're smaller, lighter, and brighter than the old multi D-cell flashlights, especially when carried by cops working out of uniform.

The old KEL-Lite and later Maglite were a pain to carry when not in use.

The key tactical advantage of the modern tactical flashlight is the power button in the tail cap which eliminates searching for the side button when quickly drawing a flashlight.

Carrying it lens up makes for a natural grip to turn on a light with a tail cap button.

These buttons can be On/Off and/or momentary, but I prefer the combo.

People seem to forget that between the hand and the forearm, there's a wrist.

Until some kind of infirmity sets in, it's very flexible, and anybody would have no problem rotating the light as shown in the Bosch pic higher.

But as you see, he's also looking up, so there's no need at that point to turn the wrist significantly to point the light up.

For me, the most important reason for that grip is when drawing one's weapon.

One can immediately rotate the had downward from the 'high-outside' position to underneath the weapon for support.

While the light and firearm are moved as a unit, the wrist can be turned to move the light while still holding a desired point of aim for the firearm.

This works really well with a hand held light and laser sight.

Further, the hand holding the flashlight can be move from the two hand grip (not as shown above) for a quick sweep of a room or towards an unexpected sound, and quickly back to the two-hand position, again while maintaining point of aim of one's weapon.

So yes, there are three advantages to the 'thumb-away' hold depicted above.

That said, somebody can still make other options more appropriate for their personal choice, but the above has always been mine.

Practice is your friend.





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An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 01:13AM by RAMd®d.
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Ooops.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 28, 2021 12:23AM
I should have watched srf1957's excellent video before posting.

It would have saved me a lot of typing.



OK, hold it the other way if you're walking your dog for its nightly poopee run, or if you're walking a trail.

This.



But hold it as shown if you're in any sort of tactical situation. Unlike sideways guns on TV or in movies, they got the flashlight thing right.


This again.

In TV and movies, the sideways thing is 'art' imitating life, where that grip is supposed to be intimidating, an image affectation.

But it has value in CQC/CQB if one has to draw and immediately fire.

It's a weaker position to shoot from, so it's for really close range, and again immediacy to shoot.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 28, 2021 07:39AM
Never accept that what is portrayed on TV and in movies has even the slightest resemblance to real life.

A gang banger shooting a rifle from inside a moving vehicle is going to cause at least temporary deafness. Shooting a pistol near someone's ear is going to cause permanent damage, and possible ear bleeds.

No one ever gets knocked over from being hit by a round, unless its a 40mm grenade round.

Flash bangs will shake a house, it's not just a flash of light and you get jossled a bit. A real frag grenade goes "pop" and throws shrapnel for only about a 20' range. The only one that will take down a small building is a thermobaric grenade called a "home wrecker" SWAT tossed a flash bang into a house 4 doors down, and it rattled MY windows and doors.

RPGs take 50 meters to arm the warhead. Blowing a car/truck up 50 feet away can't happen.

Cars just don't blow up in crashes. You run an F150 off a cliff, it just crashes and sits there at the bottom.

Even if you have law enforcement or military consultants to help add realism, it doesn't mean the director will follow their advice.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 07:40AM by Racer X.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 28, 2021 07:58AM
Quote
Racer X
Never accept that what is portrayed on TV and in movies has even the slightest resemblance to real life.

A gang banger shooting a rifle from inside a moving vehicle is going to cause at least temporary deafness. Shooting a pistol near someone's ear is going to cause permanent damage, and possible ear bleeds.

No one ever gets knocked over from being hit by a round, unless its a 40mm grenade round.

Flash bangs will shake a house, it's not just a flash of light and you get jossled a bit. A real frag grenade goes "pop" and throws shrapnel for only about a 20' range. The only one that will take down a small building is a thermobaric grenade called a "home wrecker" SWAT tossed a flash bang into a house 4 doors down, and it rattled MY windows and doors.

RPGs take 50 meters to arm the warhead. Blowing a car/truck up 50 feet away can't happen.

Cars just don't blow up in crashes. You run an F150 off a cliff, it just crashes and sits there at the bottom.

Even if you have law enforcement or military consultants to help add realism, it doesn't mean the director will follow their advice.

And a parking spot isn't always open right in front of the building real LEOs are going to.
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: testcase
Date: June 28, 2021 09:58AM
I recently bought an 800 lumen Milwaukee USB flashlight to be used as my EDC (Every Day Carry) light. It fits a particular pocket in the pants I always wear. I wanted Milwaukee’s 1100 lumen model but, I did NOT want to pay ~ $90 (I found a deal on the 800 lumen model for less than half that). One compromise is that the Milwaukee USB lights use barrel switches ( I would rather have a tailcap switch). Using the strong pocket clip as an index, I find I can orient the flashlight quickly so, I can effectively use the barrel switch. The Milwaukee USB rechargeable flashlights also do NOT have “crenelated” (scalloped) bezels. In years past, I tore up more than one pair of pants because of those “weaponized” bezels.

As already mentioned MOST of what you see on TV, in movies etc is “Hollywood Showboating” and is rarely if ever used by trained professionals.

PS: In 30+ years as a LEO, a flashlight with an adjustable beam was RARELY used and, in the three or four times I tried it, it really did not provide enough of an additional benefit to justify any extra cost in adding said “feature”. That also goes for “special” flashing modes (S-O-S, etc). 99.9+% of the time a SUPER RELIABLE, reasonably priced, “built like a tank” would be the BEST tool for the job. old fogey smiley
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: Robert M
Date: June 29, 2021 10:16AM
Hi everyone,

I found this video more useful than the other one in this thread:

[www.youtube.com]

Use of a flashlight while holding a gun doesn't serve a purpose for me. I doubt I'll ever be in that situation. However, I do use flashlights often and I hold them in a manner that best suits my purpose for using it. Some methods are better than others for aiming the beam and/or illuminating an area. And, how my arm and hand feels while holding the flashlight factors into the equation, too.

Robert
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Re: Holding flashlights???
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: June 29, 2021 11:00AM
.....what about using a water gun......with flashlight....???



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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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