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EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 28, 2021 06:12AM
I know TESLA won't allow other vehicles to use their chargers, but what about the charger network deployed by other automakers? I believe VW was supposed to deploy a network as part of the Dieselgate scandal. I think there is a Charge-Point network, and probably a few other standards.

Are they all compatible with each other? and can you charge a TESLA at one of these?

Thanks
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 28, 2021 06:21AM
Four types of plug exist, two for AC (type 1 and 2) and two for DC (CHAdeMo and CCS).

Type 1 is common for American vehicles, it’s a single-phase plug and can charge at a speed of up to 7.4 kW.

Type 2 is standard for European and Asian vehicles from 2018 onwards, it’s a triple-phase plug and can charge at a level of up to 43 kW.

CCS is a version of type 2 with two additional power contacts. It allows very fast charging.

CHAdeMO can be found in Asian cars and allows for high charging capacities as well as bidirectional charging.

[wallbox.com]



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: June 28, 2021 07:25AM
Level 1 refers to AC charging off of standard 120v power (ie typical home outlet)
Level 2 refers to AC charging off if 220v power (eg home clothes dryer or electric oven)

All EV cars charge using DC power. Levels 1 and 2 are highly dependent on the on-board charger in a given EV. The inverter converts power from AC TO DC and determines how fast the EV can charge. CCS and Tesla SuperChargers skip the AC/DC conversion in the car’s inverter and instead use a much higher powered inverter to convert it externally then dump DC power directly into the vehicle.


Tesla uses that same plug for Level 1, 2 and DC charging (aka “Supercharging”)
The J1772 plug is used for Level 1 AC charging at 120v (adds about 2-3 mph)
The J1772 plug is also used for Level 2 AC charging, but at 240 (adds about 7-10 mph)
CCS uses a plug that’s similar to J1772 but has two additional power leads for DC power. CCS adds 30-50 mph, some can provide MUCH more but they’re still rare.
ChaDeMo is a standard used almost exclusively in Japan now. It was an initial front runner in the US as it was used with the Leaf. When Nissan released the second generation Leaf, still without a cooled battery, it’s popularity waned and now it’s disappearing in the US as the Leaf fades away.



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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 28, 2021 07:34AM
So none of you answered my question. if I get a Ford Mustang EV, can I charge at any station (except TESLA's Superchargers)? Same questions for Bolt EV, VW ID4, Ford F150 Lightning,. etc.

I do own a Chevy Volt but I never charged away from home, LOL.

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 07:35AM by space-time.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 28, 2021 07:48AM
Teslas come with adapters so they can plug in/be charged at non-Tesla public charging stations.

Don't know about the electric Mustang, but I would assume they're similarly equipped.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: June 28, 2021 07:55AM
We did answer the question, but it’s complicated. It depends on the car and which options it has. Teslas can charge at any charger with an adapter if not a Tesla charger. Currently, only teslas can charge at Tesla chargers. But not all non-tesla cars can charge at all chargers. Chademo is pretty much just for the Nissan Leaf…in the US. Pretty much every other vehicle can use L1 or L2 with a J1772 plug, but it isn’t the plug that determines the charge speed. Most, but not all, EVs now default to CCS which can use a J1772 or CCS plug.

Tesla developed their own standard because there was none at the time. They developed their own charging network because there was none at the time. SAE eventually adopted J1772 and the CCS standards but no one built out networks that use them. Electrify America is the only large charging network other than Tesla in the US. All the rest are small regional networks. EA currently operates using funds from VW’s dieselgate scandal settlement. When that money is gone I expect EA to close its doors and abandon all their chargers.



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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: qdog2
Date: June 28, 2021 08:04AM
Yes you can charge at any charger as long as you have the right plug or adapter. Chademo is on the way out. None of the newer EVs use that anymore. Tesla has offered there network to other car manufacturers but to date no manufacturer has accepted the offer. In Europe all Tesla Superchargers have CCS plug because it is mandated by the European Union and all Teslas shipped to Europe now have CCS plugs.



Portsmouth, Va
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 28, 2021 08:13AM
Quote
space-time
So none of you answered my question. if I get a Ford Mustang EV, can I charge at any station (except TESLA's Superchargers)? Same questions for Bolt EV, VW ID4, Ford F150 Lightning,. etc.

I do own a Chevy Volt but I never charged away from home, LOL.

Thanks

No. Figure out what kind of connecter your car has. Then install PlugShare and filter by the connector type.

Occasionally, some cars will have to. Mine has to chademo and a more traditional plug. It’s a luxury model.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: June 28, 2021 08:49AM
The Bolt EV comes with a CCS/J1772 Combo plug.

The J1772 part handles level 1 or 2 charging via AC, which is your typical home charging situation. That is an AC charge.

The CCS part is the two extra pins below for DC Fast Charging or DCFC, which is high speed charging like you find at ChargePoint, EV Go, and others. Machines often have an option of CCS or Chademo cables for charing.

The big caveat...from 2017-2021 on the Bolt EV, the DCFC was an option, not always included. So if youre buying used, check for that. Open the charge port door and look for an orange flap that covers the two lower pins. If the orange flap is no there...skip that one! From my shopping experience, somewhere around 20% of the Bolts don't have DCFC.

Starting with the new 2022 Bolt EV and EUV, the DCFC is standard equipment.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 28, 2021 09:34AM
OK now the picture is more clear. Or at least it is clear that there is no straight answer.

From what I understand, if I were to buy a new EV, and not a Tesla, I should make sure I get one that uses CCS/J1772 Combo plug.

Thank You!
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 28, 2021 10:15AM
Speedy, ztirffritz, and Markintosh seem to have highlighted the relevant info.

https: //www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/models/mach-e-select/
SPECIFICATIONS ^
...
Charge Capability
-SAE J1772 CCS (Combo Connector System) Charge Port capable of charging on 120V, 240V and Direct Current (DC Fast Charge) Power and Heated Glass
...



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: Gareth
Date: June 28, 2021 11:03AM
Quote
space-time
OK now the picture is more clear. Or at least it is clear that there is no straight answer.

Yup, it's really something they need to clear up & simplify for the average consumer.

My dad was interested in buying a used 1st gen Leaf, but we knew it wasn't going to make the drive home on one charge, but trying to figure out what charging option(s) it had and what charging options were available on the drive home and how long it was going to take were ultimately too annoying to figure out so we gave up.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 28, 2021 11:30AM
There are a couple of videos on YT showing charging options... this one is from 2 years ago. This guy has a tesla in Boulder. Pretty good about showing how many options were out there... and there were *a lot* and the difficulty with matching connector types. : here it is: [www.youtube.com]

Not sure how much it progressed in the year of covid...

Payment seems a mess. He had a handful of payment apps to navigate them all, some worked some didn't. And chargers were in weird places. What seemed even more crazy was the 5-6 KW (16-18 miles per *hour*?) charging the random stations did, vs teslas 250.

Since I'm in upper middle class suburban CA, there are plenty of tesla chargers... but also plenty of teslas. A neighbor just had a telsa charger installed in their garage.

From an outsiders POV (I don't own an EV) it looks like a giant CF. =(





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 28, 2021 12:00PM
Quote
jdc
There are a couple of videos on YT showing charging options... this one is from 2 years ago. This guy has a tesla in Boulder. Pretty good about showing how many options were out there... and there were *a lot* and the difficulty with matching connector types. : here it is: [www.youtube.com]

Not sure how much it progressed in the year of covid...

Payment seems a mess. He had a handful of payment apps to navigate them all, some worked some didn't. And chargers were in weird places. What seemed even more crazy was the 5-6 KW (16-18 miles per *hour*?) charging the random stations did, vs teslas 250.

Since I'm in upper middle class suburban CA, there are plenty of tesla chargers... but also plenty of teslas. A neighbor just had a telsa charger installed in their garage.

From an outsiders POV (I don't own an EV) it looks like a giant CF. =(

Yes, 16 to 18 miles is pretty good for 7 kW charging station. Using my dryers plug at home I can get half that. 5 miles an hour from 120 V plug. Teslas tech is very nice. That said, my Nissan can charge in 20 mins on Chademo.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: June 28, 2021 01:01PM
I can understand how it can be confusing for people on the outside of the EV world.

I am just glad to have an L2 station at home for my Leaf. Never had to use a public charging station thus far, but there are plenty of J1772 L2 stations around, and I can also use CHademo for as long as that is around I guess.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: June 28, 2021 05:28PM
We need to get this under control.

Either that, or we should start making internal combustion engine cars with all different kinds of gas nozzle requirements. RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 28, 2021 05:57PM
1) If you buy a Ford, it comes with an app that shows available charging stations.

2) We have a mess of a system in the US that is a function of politics and business trying to cut off Tesla. Just a fact.

3) Tesla has a working supercharger network. There is optimism they will make a deal with Ford etc to share. But Ford would have to be willing to share the cost.

4) The US government is hoping to make more chargers.

5) I love charging at home.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 28, 2021 06:06PM
3 should be the correct answer, but ego. And what real cost? The work is mostly done.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 28, 2021 08:15PM
Quote
jdc
3 should be the correct answer, but ego. And what real cost? The work is mostly done.

what do you mean? sure, they have the chargers, for their cars. if all EVs start using their chargers, Tesla owners will complain that cannot find a charger.

I do not like the segmentation, but Tesla has a great advantage.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: space-time
Date: June 28, 2021 08:17PM
I am seriously considering getting a Tesla (3 or Y) or an F150 Lightning or a Mustang E. I can get great deals on Ford cars. I'll keep the Volt around for another year or two until I decide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 08:26PM by space-time.
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: June 29, 2021 10:07AM
Ford likely will be out of business in a few years. They're drowning in debt. The F150 is the cash cow and they just Osborned it. They don't have the battery production capacity to replace the volume of the F150 production that they need, but they announced a superior vehicle that won't be available for several years and only in limited quantities. They shot themselves in the foot, and stopped to reload.



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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 29, 2021 08:14PM
Ford surviving does sort of depend on an angel battery manufacturer (cough*China*cough). A lot of the cordless tool manufacturers are completely dependent on one of a few battery manufacturers.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: EV chargers: are all non-TESLA compatible with each other?
Posted by: davester
Date: June 29, 2021 08:44PM
Quote
space-time
I am seriously considering getting a Tesla (3 or Y) or an F150 Lightning or a Mustang E.

Talk about being all over the map. I don't see how you can mention a Model 3 and an F150 Lightning in the same sentence. The only things in common are four wheels and electric motors. This is like saying your seriously considering buying a tiny cottage or a massive warehouse.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2021 08:44PM by davester.
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