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Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2021 12:25PM
“Is it your computer? or is it some companies computer? Think about that. It’s time to start doing the right things.”

If Apple continues its path, they will lose me as a customer. We already have far more other hardware that used to be Apple - but are not due to Apple business decisions. If I want an 'appliance', sure. But I find the idea that my iPhone 'belongs' to Apple deeply offensive. These comments by Apple execs have been unearthed by the recent Epic trial.

They also impacts our right to repair etc.

Full story on this cameo by Woz:

[9to5mac.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2021 12:26PM by sekker.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 08, 2021 01:12PM
Quote

He then focused on the way that Apple, at its founding, was positively impacted by the open schematics of the time. “When starting Apple, I could never afford a teletype for input and output.” He then spoke about how he was able to use a tv to output the signals. “That all came from being able to repair things, modify them, and tap into them yourself.”

Moving on from his own repair experience, he questioned, “why stop the self-repair community? Why stop the right to repair people? Look at the Apple II. It shipped with full schematics… this product was the only source of profits for Apple for the first ten years of the company.”

He's right. Make the source code open, too.

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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: freeradical
Date: July 08, 2021 01:28PM
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: August West
Date: July 08, 2021 01:31PM
Nice.



Apologies to the anonymous forum member affected by my previous sig pic. It was my personal pic of a country expressing great grief as their leader, one of the most recognized people in the world, lay on his deathbed 8 years ago, days before he died. Like a naif, I did not realize it was offensively political, I considered it an expression of deep emotion and a reminder of the mortal coil's nature; that we all, great and small, can only hope to make a difference in our short time here, no matter the personal cost.

I'll post another pic from my work in South Africa that is, hopefully, apolitical.

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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: Rolando
Date: July 08, 2021 01:36PM
Quote
freeradical
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?

I recently swapped out the battery on my 2011 MacBook Pro. I swapped the SSD a few years ago.

It would be great to be able to swap the M1 chip for whatever apple makes next.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 08, 2021 01:47PM
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2021 01:50PM
Quote
freeradical
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?

Apple is trying to make this a reality. My Mac with a simple bluetooth issue is now having its SSD replaced alongside the motherboard because Apple stupidly solders this in. Now I have to do a rebuild from my Time Machine when it comes back - and a perfectly fine SSD drive is now on the scrap/recycycling pile.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2021 01:53PM
Quote
Rolando
Quote
freeradical
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?

I recently swapped out the battery on my 2011 MacBook Pro. I swapped the SSD a few years ago.

It would be great to be able to swap the M1 chip for whatever apple makes next.

Battery, SSD, RAM, keyboard, screen, daughter cards - these should all be user-fixable without an Apple repair permit.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 08, 2021 01:58PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: freeradical
Date: July 08, 2021 02:00PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
Rolando
Quote
freeradical
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?

I recently swapped out the battery on my 2011 MacBook Pro. I swapped the SSD a few years ago.

It would be great to be able to swap the M1 chip for whatever apple makes next.

Battery, SSD, RAM, keyboard, screen, daughter cards - these should all be user-fixable without an Apple repair permit.



Except for the battery, where are you gong to buy those parts?

Even if AAPL does agree to sell you those parts, they will be very pricey, and more trouble than it's worth compared to having an AAPL tech do it.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: freeradical
Date: July 08, 2021 02:02PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.


Could you troubleshoot the motherboard to find a bad chip and replace it?
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2021 02:13PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
sekker
Quote
Rolando
Quote
freeradical
I'm not quite sure what good giving me the "right to repair" would be on my new M1 Mini, or any other Mac made in the past 15 years for that matter.

I guess it would be nice to be able to easily swap out a battery, but what else?

I recently swapped out the battery on my 2011 MacBook Pro. I swapped the SSD a few years ago.

It would be great to be able to swap the M1 chip for whatever apple makes next.

Battery, SSD, RAM, keyboard, screen, daughter cards - these should all be user-fixable without an Apple repair permit.



Except for the battery, where are you gong to buy those parts?

Even if AAPL does agree to sell you those parts, they will be very pricey, and more trouble than it's worth compared to having an AAPL tech do it.

I just replaced the SSD and keyboard in a 2013 MBA. RAM is readily available. Plenty of third party batteries. Screens are becoming commodities, but using screen-pulls from older machines should be far easier than it is today.

None of these repairs are practically possible with an M1 MBA I purchased last year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2021 02:14PM by sekker.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: July 08, 2021 02:13PM
I had an early G5 flatscreen iMac that was built to be user serviceable. Everything was right in front of you when you cracked the case open. I even remember something like a test button with tones to help with diagnostics.

It was a great machine to work on, but I think back then there were bunches of people fiddling around inside their iMacs that really shouldn't have been in there, causing more damage than good.

Isn't that when Apple decided to make their stuff user unfriendly when it came to repairing those machines? I'm sure they did the math on which way was more cost efficient.



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 08, 2021 02:14PM
Quote

Except for the battery, where are you gong to buy those parts?

Our sponsor?
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: bobinmurphy
Date: July 08, 2021 04:00PM
Years ago I worked for a computer company that had multiple lines of computers. One in particular was popular but had a closed architecture. We had very few service issues or customer complaints except for the one about not being able to use a lot of 3rd party HW on the systems. A follow on computer line took a different approach using an open architecture design. Although it was also wildly successful, the number of service issues and customer complaints about problems with their 3rd party HW devices was probably 10 times as much as with the closed architecture, and the one they pointed fingers at was the computer manufacturer, not the 3rd party manufacturers. Now this was before much of the Internet and the current level of viruses, spam, etc. I can only imagine how bad it could get today with a totally open architecture.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 08, 2021 04:25PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.

I've done the same to my 2010, but it's not really an "easy" fix, and sort of requires two people to reassemble (although I did it solo a couple of times). Replaced factory HD and superdrive and battery on a 2009 MBP, too. Again, not really easy But possble. But, I see your point that it's sorta possible, but I'd decline to call it easy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2021 04:26PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 08, 2021 04:39PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.

I've done the same to my 2010, but it's not really an "easy" fix, and sort of requires two people to reassemble (although I did it solo a couple of times). Replaced factory HD and superdrive and battery on a 2009 MBP, too. Again, not really easy But possble. But, I see your point that it's sorta possible, but I'd decline to call it easy.

I couldn't name more than 2-3 macs that are 'easy'

The IIcx/ci were advertised as being able to be take apart in a couple of minutes. That was easy. Upgrading a crt iMacs ram? Easy. Everything else is sorta possible.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 08, 2021 06:03PM
I've never had any problem taking any Mac apart, it's the putting it back together that creates issues.

but seriously, some parts should be serviceable. I have two MBP in my closet, both work fine except for the keyboard. Way too involved for me to replace and too costly to have it done. I can switch the keyboard on a Dell Latitude in less than 10-minutes and includes pulling the battery (so both could be switched in the same time.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 08, 2021 07:32PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.

I've done the same to my 2010, but it's not really an "easy" fix, and sort of requires two people to reassemble (although I did it solo a couple of times). Replaced factory HD and superdrive and battery on a 2009 MBP, too. Again, not really easy But possble. But, I see your point that it's sorta possible, but I'd decline to call it easy.

I couldn't name more than 2-3 macs that are 'easy'

The IIcx/ci were advertised as being able to be take apart in a couple of minutes. That was easy. Upgrading a crt iMacs ram? Easy. Everything else is sorta possible.

Power Mac G4/G5 towers were super easy to access.



It is what it is.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 08, 2021 10:01PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.

I've done the same to my 2010, but it's not really an "easy" fix, and sort of requires two people to reassemble (although I did it solo a couple of times). Replaced factory HD and superdrive and battery on a 2009 MBP, too. Again, not really easy But possble. But, I see your point that it's sorta possible, but I'd decline to call it easy.

I couldn't name more than 2-3 macs that are 'easy'

The IIcx/ci were advertised as being able to be take apart in a couple of minutes. That was easy. Upgrading a crt iMacs ram? Easy. Everything else is sorta possible.

Power Mac G4/G5 towers were super easy to access.

Yup, Quadra and my 7300 come to mind.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2021 11:27PM
Most Apple towers have been easy to update.

Wish they had kept that view for iMacs.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 09, 2021 01:04AM
I the people won the "right to repair" in court, that means electronics manufacturers would be forced to make their devices repairable.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 09, 2021 01:28AM
Upgraded the clock chip in my Q700.

New iPhones need an Apple Authorized tech to authorize a replacement battery.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 09, 2021 10:37AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Upgraded the clock chip in my Q700.

New iPhones need an Apple Authorized tech to authorize a replacement battery.

Just wait, if Apple installs a fingerprint sensor under the screen, even replacing a cracked glass will require Apple authorization.

I truly like my iPhones. But even if you declare an iPhone an 'appliance' (as opposed to a 'computer'), the parts that regularly fail (battery, screen etc) should not HAVE TO come from Apple.

And as Woz noted, computers etc SHOULD be open.
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Re: Woz: Reminding Apple of its founding DNA
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 09, 2021 02:43PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
p8712
Quote
mrbigstuff
I was fairly amazed that I could completely disassemble my Samsung phone a few years ago and replace nearly every component.

And we all know that it was possible in the 90s and slightly beyond to do that on an Apple. But this is a different company now.

I just cracked open a 2010 imac. Easy to fix. So not 15 years.

I've done the same to my 2010, but it's not really an "easy" fix, and sort of requires two people to reassemble (although I did it solo a couple of times). Replaced factory HD and superdrive and battery on a 2009 MBP, too. Again, not really easy But possble. But, I see your point that it's sorta possible, but I'd decline to call it easy.

I couldn't name more than 2-3 macs that are 'easy'

The IIcx/ci were advertised as being able to be take apart in a couple of minutes. That was easy. Upgrading a crt iMacs ram? Easy. Everything else is sorta possible.

Power Mac G4/G5 towers were super easy to access.

Forgot about that and the 7xxx series. Good points
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