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Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 10:18AM
Computer connects via modem & ethernet to internet.

What are the pros and cons of including a router?
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: timg
Date: August 11, 2021 10:24AM
Before you ask that question, it's probably a good idea to make sure your modem doesn't already include a router.

what service do you have and what "modem"?



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 11, 2021 11:00AM
Broadband modems typically include a router.

A router puts your computer on a "LAN"... Local Area Network. If your modem does not have a router in it, you are putting your computer directly on the internet. Which means it's going to get attacked constantly.

Modern routers also include a firewall, which shuts off simple attacks. It gets complicated from there.

NEVER connect directly to the internet. That way lies pain.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 11:02AM
Arris SB6182 modem, Cableone.net ISP
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 11:31AM
Could add EdgeRouterX if it would be worthwhile

Thirty-five to 40 seconds elapse between clicking Post and the message appearing in the forum; MAJOR PROBLEM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2021 11:34AM by clyde.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 11, 2021 11:33AM
Clyde,

Looks like your computer is connected directly to the modem, which is in turn connected to the cable connection of your house. Unusual in this day and age. same goes that your modem is just a modem and not a modem/router combo.. You should have a router in place between the modem and the computer. cable connection goes to modem. modem connects to router. computer connects to router via hardwire or wireless. If you have a network cable printer, you can connect it to the router. Streaming devices such as a roku connect to the router. You get the idea.

If you’re renting the modem, maybe contact the provider and request a mew one that is a modem//router combo unit. Or just buy your own router and put it into place and call it done. If the modem serves you well, I’d probably just ge5 a router of my own and use it for hardwire and wireless networking. That’s what I’ve done even though I have a router/modem combo unit from FIOS.

Robert
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 11, 2021 11:34AM
If you only ever have just one device connected to the internet then yes, to don't "require" a router, BUT it would would be pretty unusual in this day and age.

Do you have a smart phone, a networked printer, VOIP phone service, an Alexa type device, Streaming TV device like Roku, security camera, or do you ever have family or guests that might have smart phones or computers. Those are all reasons why routers are essential for the general population.

And there is added security by having your computer on the LAN side of the router instead of directly connected to the WAN port of the cable modem.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 11:42AM
Will a router do anything to correct painfully slow operation? Have EdgeRouterX

Thirty-five to 40 seconds elapse between clicking Post and the message appearing in the forum; MAJOR PROBLEM
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 11:47AM
Devices are:
iMac
VOIP phone

Inkjet printer connects directly to computer

Lately everyting has become v e r y s l o w. Forty seconds between clicking Post Message and the message appearing

Censorship??
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 11, 2021 12:06PM
Clyde,

You have a router (EdgeRouterX)? If so, why don't you have it in place between your modem and the other devices? Assuming you don't have it in place, ow is the VOIP phone connected to the network Usually, the VOIP box is connected to a router.

Since you have a wireless router, your configuration should be like this:

Internet provider to house
House coaxial to cable modem coaxial port
Modem to EdgeRouterX.
EdgeRouterX wired or wireless computer
EdgeRouterX wired VOIP box for VOIP phone

Please calrify how everything is connected. Assuming the connections are something like above and it "just worked", you could also be having an issue with your Internet connection on the provider's end, the modem could be having issues and/or the rotuer could be having issues.

BTW, I'm assuming you're using a standard VOIP box be it an OOMA, Obihai, Vonage, etc, all of which are usually connected to a router.

Robert
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: rz
Date: August 11, 2021 12:11PM
I'm just spit balling, but maybe the reason things are slow is that you've been directly connected to the internet, and your machine is being bombarded with attempts to get into it.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: hal
Date: August 11, 2021 01:08PM
Call your isp and ask if this modem is compatible with their service.

Do other websites work as expected?
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: TheCaber
Date: August 11, 2021 02:32PM
The Motorola SURFboard Arris 6182SB DOCSIS3.0 modem is just a modem. You will need a router/switch, and/or WiFi device, to connect multiple devices to the network connection provided by the Arris modem.

Quick setup guide

User guide

You can get a 802.11b/g/n/ac single or dual band WiFi LAN network device for $40 or more at just about any b&m or online retailer. Sometimes for less if you're really lucky.

BezosLand deal: TP-Link Archer A6 dual band
Same, but cheaper from BeastBuy: TP-Link Archer C6 AC1200 dual band
Slightly slower from BeastBuy: TP-Link Archer AC750 dual band

search for [ cheapest WiFi dual band router in USA ]

The WiFi device has a router and network switch built in. Even if you don't use the WiFi, the switch will provide a Local Area Network (not seen by the outside world) and let you connect multiple devices to the LAN. It will also do NAT (Network Address Translation) so that traffic on the WAN (Wide Area Network (the Arris cable modem)) is automatically sent to the proper port connected to the LAN device.

The delays you are experiencing are not reasonable. They could be due to improper configuration of the Arris modem, problems with signal strength and noise on the cable, bad configuration of the CableOne server (or communication within CableOne's server farm).

Pinging a well-known network location, such as apple.com or microsoft.com or google.com, should take 2 to 50 milliseconds. That is a measure of the time to send a query message packet and wait for a reply packet. When times get into the hundreds or thousands of milliseconds then you see V..E..R..Y.....S..L..O..W.. service (long latency or lagging).



Also, what computer and OS are you running?



edit: add some lower price dual band wifi router suggestions



=TC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2021 03:10PM by TheCaber.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: modelamac
Date: August 11, 2021 03:54PM
Suddenly painfully slow speeds? Reboot your modem. The router won't affect the speed much, if at all.
The question you should b e asking is what is causing the slowdown. If rebooting the modem does not cure it, the problem warrants a call to your cable provider.


Quote
clyde
Devices are:
iMac
VOIP phone

Inkjet printer connects directly to computer

Lately everyting has become v e r y s l o w. Forty seconds between clicking Post Message and the message appearing

Censorship??



Ed (modelamac)

I think I will just put an OUT OF ORDER
sticker on my head and call it a day.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 11, 2021 03:56PM
Model,

Sounds as much like a configuration issue as it is a reboot the model type issue. The whole thread comes across to me like Clyde hasn’t put the network together properly even though he has all the hardware on hand to do it. He needs to configure the network properly before doing further troubleshooting.

Robert



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2021 03:57PM by Robert M.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: August 11, 2021 04:36PM
Based on a quick search, Sparklight (was CableOne) is not well liked.
[duckduckgo.com]

Complaints abound re slow connections & data caps.
btw, have you checked the connections on the ONT (Optical Network Terminal)?
Make sure it's got constant power and both the incoming fiber & the
coax cables are secure.



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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 05:54PM
Quote
TheCaber
The Motorola SURFboard Arris 6182SB DOCSIS3.0 modem is just a modem. You will need a router/switch, and/or WiFi device, to connect multiple devices to the network connection provided by the Arris modem.

Would an EdgeRouterX be suitable for this configuration?

Only two devices are used here—an iMac (Mojave) and an Ooma VOIP telephone. My printer connects via cable to the iMac.

Have used this Arris modem/computer/Ooma phone configuration for at least two years with zero difficulties and reasonable speeds. Because the speed problem is recent—within the last month—could it be somehow related to censorship?


The delays you are experiencing are not reasonable. They could be due to improper configuration of the Arris modem, problems with signal strength and noise on the cable, bad configuration of the CableOne server (or communication within CableOne's server farm).



Pinging a well-known network location, such as apple.com or microsoft.com or google.com, should take 2 to 50 milliseconds. That is a measure of the time to send a query message packet and wait for a reply packet. When times get into the hundreds or thousands of milliseconds then you see V..E..R..Y.....S..L..O..W.. service (long latency or lagging).

Also, what computer and OS are you running? iMac, late 2013, with Mojave



edit: add some lower price dual band wifi router suggestions
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 05:57PM
Now the situation gets goofy. After clicking the Post Message button the info went quickly to the page. In other words, the problem is gone!

Why the unpredictability??
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 06:12PM
test

My previous post appeared quickly, but my VPN was turned off. With this post it was ON.

Weirdness…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2021 06:13PM by clyde.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 11, 2021 06:15PM
Clyde,

I doubt it's censorship. You really should have a router between your computer and OOMA box and the modem. If you already have the EdgeRouterX router, then it'll be fine. Connect it to the modem and then connect the computer and the ooma box to two of the router's ethernet ports. Restart everything. Done.

If you don't own a router, then purchasing a cheap but quality router will do the job. Something like a TP-Link Archer A7 or similar from Asus or another reputable brand. This isn't because you need wifi. You just need a good router with a handful of ethernet ports.

Like I said before... Very odd to not have a modem-router combo these days or a modem with a separate router in place and your computer and Ooma box connected to the router. If you have the necessary hardware, it can't hurt to put it into place and see if it corrects the issue.

Robert
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 06:25PM
Will endeavor to include the EdgeRouter and connect things in the right order…

Thanks for the guidance!
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 11, 2021 06:26PM
Working quickly now and have done NOTHING! That's the weird part.

But I will follow Robert's advice about router and configuration.
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 12, 2021 07:42AM
clyde, welcome to the wonderful world of computer networking. So much fun ! So many possible failure points !

Always an opportunity to kick back with a good book, crack a beer or a brew nice cup of tea, and think Luddite thoughts while the gear confuses itself. devil smiley
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 12, 2021 09:27PM
Quote
Robert M
Clyde,

You have a router (EdgeRouterX)? If so, why don't you have it in place between your modem and the other devices? Assuming you don't have it in place, ow is the VOIP phone connected to the network Usually, the VOIP box is connected to a router.

Since you have a wireless router, your configuration should be like this:

Internet provider to house
House coaxial to cable modem coaxial port
Modem to EdgeRouterX.
EdgeRouterX wired or wireless computer
EdgeRouterX wired VOIP box for VOIP phone

Please calrify how everything is connected. Assuming the connections are something like above and it "just worked", you could also be having an issue with your Internet connection on the provider's end, the modem could be having issues and/or the rotuer could be having issues.

BTW, I'm assuming you're using a standard VOIP box be it an OOMA, Obihai, Vonage, etc, all of which are usually connected to a router.

Robert

The initial connections were:
Ethernet cable to modem
Modem output to Ooma “Internet” connector
Ooma Home connector directly to iMac ethernet connector

This is Ooma’s Option B setup. It works, but quite slowly lately.

Ooma also suggests connecting an ethernet cable from a router output to the Ooma’s Internet port. Ooma said nothing about any other connections, so I connected the Ooma Home output to the iMac.
This EdgeRouter may or may not be wireless; it has no antennae. It has five connectors, eth0/PoE IN, eth1, eth2, eth3, and eth4/PoE OUT.
I tried this configuration twice with the Edge Router X—once connecting the Ooma internet connector to eth3 and once to eth4/PoE OUT. Neither worked.

Does this mean I have made wrong connections, that the router is dead, or something else?
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: August 13, 2021 08:28AM
If your internet is going THROUGH the coma to the computer, that might be part of the slowdown problem.

The edge router doesn't have wireless. But it's nowhere as easy to set up as something like an off the shelf Asus router you'd buy at a big box store. The edge router is more of a prosumer device. Not really plug and play.

If you got the edge router to work, you would plug in an ethernet cable from the modem to the edge router then and ethernet cable from the edge router to your Ooma and another ethernet cable from the edge router to the iMac.

Wait. You have ethernet going TO the modem? You should have coax or fiber going TO the modem. Then ethernet going FROM the modem.



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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 13, 2021 08:35AM
Coax from house is INPUT to modem
Output from modem is ethernet cable

Now to learn how to set the Edge Router correctly…
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 13, 2021 09:31AM
Clyde,

Coaxial to INPUT modem.
Ethernet from OUTPUT on modem to ETH0/PoE In on Edgerouter
Ethernet from eth1, eth2, or eth3 to ethernet of iMac
Ethernet from eth1, eth2, or eth3 to Ooma Telo Internet port

Those are the physical connections.

Robert
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: clyde
Date: August 13, 2021 12:48PM
Robert, thanks for the connection instructions.

Ubiquiti says the router's "EdgeOS Configuration interface can be accessed via DHCP or Static IP address assignment."

Is this Configuration via the interface necessary, or will connecting things as you have described (computer and Ooma to separate eth ports) be sufficient?

If configuration via that router interface is needed, should DHCP or Static IP be used?
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Re: Router necessary?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 13, 2021 01:11PM
Clyde,

In my experience, you shouldn't need to change anything via the configuration interface on the router. If it was a wireless model, I'd change the password for accessing the configuration interface. For a hardwire only model, I wouldn't be as worried about it. Definitely wouldn't mess with it until everything is confirmed operational and working properly.

Robert
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