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Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 26, 2021 07:59PM
A three-judge federal appeals court unanimously found the marking a tire with chalk for parking enforcement violated a driver's fourth amendment rights.

Chalking a tire is an old-fashioned technique used by many municipalities for checking to see if a car has overstayed its time in a parking spot. There are other ways to do this — installing parking meters or automated pay machines, for example.

Alison Taylor and her lawyer sued Saginaw, Mich., over 14 parking tickets she had racked up. Taylor argued that using the chalk to mark her tires constituted an unreasonable search without a warrant. The court agreed.

The appeals court's ruling sets precedent for the whole 6th Circuit, comprising Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee.

[www.yahoo.com]



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 26, 2021 08:18PM
For the life of me I cannot understand how parking a privately owned vehicle on public property means an innocuous mark can’t be left on a tire.



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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 26, 2021 08:42PM
Quote
mattkime
For the life of me I cannot understand how parking a privately owned vehicle on public property means an innocuous mark can’t be left on a tire.

There's an old legal doctrine that most courts ignore because traffic judges aren't appointed for their intelligence or legal savvy and tend to construe their purpose in life as raising revenue and punishing people harshly for the least significant affronts...

Basically, cars are mobile houses under this doctrine, where cops are supposed to need probably cause or a warrant for a search and even touching it without the owner's permission under color of law could be construed as a trespass. (As an example, seeing an open bottle of alcohol and a handgun through the window as the driver pulled up to the curb would be probable cause.)

But more to the point, they're marking every vehicle indiscriminately (or discriminately in some cases, which is worse). They're trespassing upon lawfully-parked vehicles in order to later catch violators. The owner has done nothing to support a probable cause for the trespass.

Imagine for a moment that it's not your vehicle's tire that's getting marked. Imagine it's you. Every time you step out of your car, a cop stops you and puts a mark on your shoulder to track you on the off-chance that later you'll commit a crime. Constitutional?

...Also, where I live they drive cars around with license plate scanners. With this tech, they'll easily ticket a car within a minute or two of a meter-expiration or a >15m stay in a loading zone. This tech doesn't involve a trespass at all because taking pics in public places is lawful. (Even though it all but completely eliminates "de minimis" violations which is a sad consequence of using modern tech in this age.) So, there are less intrusive measures available. Where there are less intrusive measures available, it's harder for an act like this to pass muster.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 08:44PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: jdc
Date: August 26, 2021 08:47PM
Taylor's attorney, Philip Ellison, plans to leverage the ruling in her lawsuit into a class action involving other drivers ticketed in Saginaw.

He will walk away with $,$$$,$$$ and everyone else will get a check for $2.78.





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 26, 2021 10:03PM
Meter enforcers have been chalking tires forever.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 26, 2021 10:15PM
Newer meters will sense motion and will read plates, and issue tickets. Yay, tech!
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 26, 2021 11:32PM
Quote
jdc
Taylor's attorney, Philip Ellison, plans to leverage the ruling in her lawsuit into a class action involving other drivers ticketed in Saginaw.

He will walk away with $,$$$,$$$ and everyone else will get a check for $2.78.

Good for him.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 27, 2021 07:18AM
Cities will now use this as an excuse to set up surveillance systems for 'parking enforcement'.... yay.

On good news. wide brim Fedoras will be back. (Because stopping facial recognition)
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 27, 2021 09:57AM
Taylor argued that using the chalk to mark her tires constituted an unreasonable search without a warrant. The court agreed.


That's BS on both counts, but easily worked around with a digital camera.

Chalk the ground in front and behind the tires and take a pic showing the position of the valve stem, the various text on the sidewall, and any unique marking of wear or damage to the tire.

A couple of hi-res pics of a front and rear tire would be enough.

Sure, it'll take a bit longer, but it would be legal.

Fines could be bumped a little.

There would be workarounds to thwart those procedures, but most people won't bother.





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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 27, 2021 10:52AM
RAM,

I disagree. I think the ruling is sound. I'd also take it a step further and say the officers have no business whatsoever touching a legally parked vehicle. Not with a finger. Not with a piece of chalk. Heck, I'd be annoyed if I saw a chalk mark on tires I'd just cleaned and made extra spiffy.

There are definitely work arounds that are perfectly legal. The problem is effort. The example you offered wouldn't work because it'll take too much time and effort. Officers want something fast and effective. They're not going to want to take the time to chalk the ground and take photos.

Robert
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 27, 2021 11:51AM
Everything that generates revenue for the state is OK.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: August 27, 2021 08:16PM
I think it's now fairly common, at least for larger cities and suburbs, to use automated license plate readers instead of chalk on a stick.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 28, 2021 10:46AM
Everything that generates revenue for the state is OK.


As long as it's off the backs of violators, I agree.

States can always use money and as long as there are people stupid enough to get caught, states and cites should capitalize it.


Robert, we'll have to agree to disagree.

But fortunately, technology can relieve the oppression some will suffer from a chalk mark.

Something tells me the woman who won that lawsuit wasn't really concerned about the sanctity of her vehicle.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Robert M
Date: August 28, 2021 11:46AM
RAM,

You feel it's appropriate for an officer to touch my vehicle (in any manner) when I've done nothing illegal and/or to warrant them even looking at it, let alone marking it and the vehicle itself is parked legally? Not a chance. That I _might_ commit the crime of not moving my car before the time limit doesn't cut it.

Robert
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: space-time
Date: August 28, 2021 01:08PM
First World Problems.

In many other place you would worry if the car was still there, not about chalk marks on tires.

Ask me how I know.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 28, 2021 01:44PM
Quote
space-time
First World Problems.


Pretty much true of 99% of the things that people complain about here.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Janit
Date: August 28, 2021 04:54PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
I think it's now fairly common, at least for larger cities and suburbs, to use automated license plate readers instead of chalk on a stick.


Yes, and the problem with this is that the automated readers can't tell when a car in a 2-hour zone has been re-parked further down the same block and is therefore again legally parked. The automatic readers now treat a car parked anywhere on a given "block" as not having moved, even if it is on the other side of the street.

When my town first adopted this system, I had to go to court to dispute a ticket I got when attending a writing workshop at my local library. Two other attendees also got ticketed, and we went together as mutual witnesses to the fact that all of us had moved our cars during the "move your car" break that these workshops always had at the 1:45 hr mark (the workshops were 3 hours long). We got the tickets dismissed, but it's now a big headache to re-park the car on a different block.
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Re: Judge not the chalk the marketh
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 28, 2021 10:40PM
I can look out on my block from my porch, and spot between 8 and 12 parking violations at any given time. If a municipality needs the revenue, they just need to enforce. Its that easy. Take a picture of the vehicle with plate too close to a driveway, and too far away from the curb, and pointed the wrong way, and mail them 3 tickets. Have 1' and 5' calibrated sticks on the ground. Let them refute that.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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