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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: weapon
Date: March 18, 2007 01:41PM
The amazon link is $90 for me.


what gives??
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Robert
Date: March 18, 2007 01:43PM
Quote
nwyaker
And furthermore, you can find it here for $ 31 + ship, or two or more, free ship.

[www.superwarehouse.com]

Great find nwyaker!
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: polychrome
Date: March 18, 2007 01:45PM
Ordered one at $37.00 shipped from PC Universe through Amazon. Should have jumped on the Provantage price when I first saw Robert's posting, but I wanted to finish watching this movie. Less than an hour later and the price jumped. Still, $37.00 is good.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: BLeonard
Date: March 18, 2007 01:50PM
picked up two. Thanks.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: weapon
Date: March 18, 2007 01:59PM
got 2 from superwarehouse.

Had to use firefox to complete the order, safari choked on the checkout for some reason.

$61.98 shipped for the 2.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: robfilms
Date: March 18, 2007 02:10PM
thenerds.net has it for $30.04 + shipping

[www.thenerds.net]

ymmv

be well

rob
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Panopticon
Date: March 18, 2007 02:11PM
hmmmm, should I order more from superwarehouse, in case Provantage craps out?

Could always fleabay extras, or offer the surplus @ cost to forum members smileys with beer
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: weapon
Date: March 18, 2007 02:12PM
thenerds want 10 shipping...
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: March 18, 2007 02:16PM
Quote
Panopticon
hmmmm, should I order more from superwarehouse, in case Provantage craps out?

Hmmm, that's what I'm wondering. When I ordered from the PC Universe via the Amazon link, it showed only 5 left and I grabbed three. Then I ordered two from the SuperWarehouse link. I'm guessing that SW is more reliable and I'm likely to get a cancelled order from PC Universe. Maybe I should kill that order and grab three more from SW, especially since they're a little cheaper. Decisions, decisions.


EDIT: Here's a direct link to the PC Universe model: [www.pcuniverse.com]

331 in stock so I guess my order is secure. I wonder if the 4200 RPM is a typo.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 02:38PM by Mike Sellers.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 18, 2007 02:21PM
looks like thenerds.net also has the $10 off google chekout





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: nwyaker
Date: March 18, 2007 02:24PM
The Nerds are listed as 5400 RPM ( as opposed to 4200 at SW ). Buying four, the shipping is about $ 5 per unit at Nerds.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 18, 2007 02:48PM
I *just* ordered three from Amazon/PC Universe for $30.26 each, but it says "Shipped by Amazon". Ordered with one click.

Does anybody know anything about SuperWarehouse? I have three in the basket (and nothing in anybody's oven, that I know of".






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Uh oh...
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 18, 2007 02:52PM
Internal server error

SW looks to be T/U.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: wurm
Date: March 18, 2007 02:58PM
Lemming that I am, I just ordered one from SuperWarehouse for $37.53 shipped (they hit me for tax, too). RAM, what is T/U?

Interesting that shipping from PCUniverse site shows $8.95, but from PCUniverse via Amazon, shows $6.74. And has anyone determined definitively whether it's 4200rpm or 5400?
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: GGD
Date: March 18, 2007 02:59PM
The 4200/5400 RPM differences are curious, it looks like all of the different merchants are saying that the model number is "FWFL80", yet seem to disagree on the RPMs.

I think all of these merchants use the same distributor and their online prices and stock are computed directly from the distributors database. So this all might have been triggered by a pricing mistake by the distributor, or maybe the distributor really has a great deal for all of us.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: mattkime
Date: March 18, 2007 03:03PM
>>And has anyone determined definitively whether it's 4200rpm or 5400?

The mfg's site seems to be pretty sure that its a 5400rpm drive.

it'll be interesting to see how this sorts out.



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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: March 18, 2007 03:08PM
Quote
mattkime
The mfg's site seems to be pretty sure that its a 5400rpm drive.

it'll be interesting to see how this sorts out.

Or maybe it's newer vs. older version of the drive and they just kept the same part number.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: mattkime
Date: March 18, 2007 03:15PM
>>Or maybe it's newer vs. older version of the drive and they just kept the same part number.

Good point.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 18, 2007 03:21PM
T/U is "tits up".

The SW site is working, but my first "Enter" on every page gave me the server error. Going back and clicking again (and again, sometimes) got me through.

I got three from SW, too. Free shipping on two (or three?) or more, but CA sales tax. They're in San Diego, CA and say they have several warehouses around the country.

The site doesn't show a FWFL80 though you can select it from a dropdown menu. It shows all drives to be 5400 rpm, but the observation about old vs. new stock could be right.

I'll hope that I get some of the drives, and that they're 5400 rpm, but I guess there will be no way to confirm that. Wait- System profiler and the HDs' site(s)?

For the money, I'll take 4200 and be happy. Anything else is icing.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: tahoedrew
Date: March 18, 2007 03:27PM
Quote
jdc
looks like thenerds.net also has the $10 off google chekout

It looks like I didn't get the $10 off through google checkout. The nerds site says the $10 credit will only be reflected in Google purchase history, but my history says I was still charged $40.03!

I may have to cancel this one.

~A
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: weapon
Date: March 18, 2007 03:46PM
use firefox with SW website. As I stated earlier, Safari does not like their checkout.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: wurm
Date: March 18, 2007 03:49PM
Looks like it's gone up a bit at Provantage. ;)






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 03:50PM by wurm.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 18, 2007 04:26PM
got 2 this AM, but now check this price:

$242.79
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: March 18, 2007 04:26PM
Quote
wurm
Looks like it's gone up a bit at Provantage. ;)



I think I speak for everyone when I say "holy @#$%&!!!" smiling smiley
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: March 18, 2007 04:27PM
Quote
Mike Sellers
Quote
wurm
Looks like it's gone up a bit at Provantage. ;)



I think I speak for everyone when I say "holy @#$%&!!!" smiling smiley

Agreed. Seems like Provantage is trying to take Advantage of the situation. ;)




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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: PeterB
Date: March 18, 2007 04:30PM
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
Mike Sellers
Quote
wurm
Looks like it's gone up a bit at Provantage. ;)



I think I speak for everyone when I say "holy @#$%&!!!" smiling smiley

Agreed. Seems like Provantage is trying to take Advantage of the situation. ;)

No, I think they're just being "proactive". grinning smiley




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: March 18, 2007 04:31PM
Just checked back at Provantage and the price is now listed as "1093 In Stock $242.79" but I think you get some roses and a little jar of Vaseline with that...

Edit: of course I didn't refresh the page here and see the above posts saying the same thing! Duh....



- Jack D.




New tasteless sig coming soon!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 04:32PM by Jack D..
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: March 18, 2007 04:40PM
Well, like others I tried to hedge my bets. I ordered one from Provantage at $27.97 shipped and ordered one from Amazon/PC Universe for $37.00 shipped.

I figure if one of them bails out on the price; it will be Provantage. And if both of them come through then maybe I will post here to see if a forum member will buy the extra.

Any way you look at it; $28 to $37 is a hell of a deal for 80 gigs of storage.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 04:40PM by MacArtist.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Panopticon
Date: March 18, 2007 04:42PM
Some info re the "4200/5400 RPM" question. Several years ago, SmartDisk used Toshiba 4200 HDs in the FireLite. Those drives are no longer made.
It appears some distributors may be supplying the old archived SD ad copy to their dealers.

Still, a $30 FW 80GB drive is a steal!
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: March 18, 2007 04:50PM
Why pay $242.79 (Provantage updated price for the 80 gig drive) when you can buy a 100 gig version for $93.53?

[www.provantage.com]

Their pricing scheme is very puzzling.

Baiting the hooks, waiting for very slow swimmers.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: March 18, 2007 04:59PM
Well, NUTS!

If I'd have seen that deal before they upped it to $242, I'd have bought TEN (two for me, and 8 for work...) at $28 or $30.

As it is, I might buy two for myself through Amazon...
But I would rather save up for a much bigger drive for my MacBook, and maybe put my Macbook's 60gb in a case instead.... Maybe...



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 18, 2007 05:24PM
I wonder if this was a human change or if there's some program that raises the price if there's a run on the product (i.e., individuals buying high quantities); y'know, like the stock market "whoa, Nellie" program.



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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: wurm
Date: March 18, 2007 05:34PM
Quote
Panopticon
Some info re the "4200/5400 RPM" question. Several years ago, SmartDisk used Toshiba 4200 HDs in the FireLite. Those drives are no longer made.
It appears some distributors may be supplying the old archived SD ad copy to their dealers.

Still, a $30 FW 80GB drive is a steal!

Assuming we get them, let's hope it's just a matter of old copy and not old drives.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Spock
Date: March 18, 2007 05:47PM
Provantage, 80GB FireLite Firewire Portable Hard Drive *for Macintosh*

WTF? They are $242.79 !!!


Edit: Got a confirmation email from SuperWharehouse $30.99 + $4.99 S&H.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 05:51PM by Spock.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 18, 2007 05:51PM
Cool. One of the rare times I'm able to take advantage of these types of deals when they pop up.

Ordered 3 from the PC Universe link. $30.xx + $8.xx shipping (if each) and they give a quantity discount on shipping, so mine were $10.xx for shipping. Works for me!

THANKS ROBERT!
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: ArtP
Date: March 18, 2007 06:17PM
Since this item will probably be this years "USB Scale" I ordered one from Superwarehouse (PEER PRESSURE!)

It clicked out at $35.98 shipped.

When do I get my SmartDisk Firewire Drive Cult membership card to put next to the "Cult of the USB scale" card?

Wow, $27 shipped was a good deal if they actually ship to those who ordered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 06:18PM by ArtP.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: March 18, 2007 06:42PM
I couldn't take it any more...
Just ordered from PC Universe, via Amazon.

Only one though... I could use more, but think it would be wiser of me not to overspend right now. Much as I might later regret not having more than one of these drives...



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: March 18, 2007 07:20PM
Couldn't hold off...I've been meaning to get a backup drive for quite some time.

SuperWarehouse @ $38.38 after tax, shipping
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: March 18, 2007 07:31PM
I'd bet someone REALLY screwed up in the Ingram system. The different places offering all seem to be Ingram virtual warehousers.... Looks like not all of them onto tthe problem. Hope these places fulfill the orders - either way - I'd not be surprised if someone's getting fired on Monday.



OWC Larry
Other World Computing
[www.macsales.com]
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: March 18, 2007 07:36PM
So my question is...

Are the merchants obligated to fulfill at the listed price or do they all say it was a pricing error and that gets them off the hook?

Update: I see that Amazon/PC Universe posted the charge to my account for the drive I ordered through them. I hope that's a good sign.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 07:41PM by MacArtist.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Silencio
Date: March 18, 2007 07:44PM
I'm not getting any joy from SuperWarehouse or Amazon anymore, either. Prices have jumped back up on the same part #. OWC Larry can breathe easier...

Too bad, because those little cases were fairly nice. Forget what chipset they used or what the maximum drive capacity is, but they were pretty easy to get in and get out of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2007 07:45PM by Silencio.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Panopticon
Date: March 18, 2007 07:49PM
Quote
OWC Larry
I'd bet someone REALLY screwed up in the Ingram system. The different places offering all seem to be Ingram virtual warehousers.... ... I'd not be surprised if someone's getting fired on Monday.

Had the same thought about them being Ingram based. Seen it happen before.
But maybe it's not someone getting fired, maybe Friday was their last day?

So Larry, can we get a pricematch? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Silencio
Date: March 18, 2007 08:09PM
Mwave.com still appears to have them. $28.54 + $8.50 for 2-day shipping. I ordered three. grinning smiley

[www.mwave.com]
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Possible Necessary Firmware Update Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: March 18, 2007 08:50PM
[sdkbase.smartdisk.com]

Mac OS 10.3.6 or above mounting issues FireLite FWFLxx-N and CrossFire XF Series.

Due to the recent Apple Mac OS 10.3.6 update, some Firewire FireLites and CrossFire hard drives may no longer mount on some Macs. More specifically the FWFLxx-N and CrossFire hard drives. All model FireLites FWFLxx-N and CrossFire hard drives have the Initio Chipset 1430. Certain firmware versions are effected and others are not. Individual results may vary based on Lot# of the drive, capacity, and the type of Mac you are running.

FireLite 40GB and 60GB (FWFL40-N and FWFL60-N) versions do not seem to be effected. Only 80GB version or larger.

Initio has released a firmware update to correct this issue.

The update must be run on a non-10.3.6/above system, or from a 10.3.6/above system that can mount the drive using a FireWire connection. The firmware cannot be updated via USB.

* Mac OS 10.x Updater
* Windows (98SE-XP) Updater

Click here for detailed instructions.

* We recommend running the update from a Mac computer, to prevent possible issue with having to reformat the disk.
* If you run the update from a Windows computer, the drive must be able to mount first. In most cases your FireLite or CrossFire hard drive will be formatted for Mac OS. So in order to update the firmware, you would need to format the drive for Windows to run the update. Once the drive is working and mounted in Windows, you could run the update.
* Formatting a hard drive causes the loss of all data.
* The update should not cause loss of data.
* If you have files on the drive that you need or have not backed up, then we would strongly recommend backing up the data before running the update.
* If you do not have a –N FireLite or CrossFire hard drive, no firmware update is required for 10.3.6/above
* If your -N FireLite or CrossFire hard drive does not seem to be effected by 10.3.6/above, you can still run the update to get the latest firmware for the drive.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: March 18, 2007 09:01PM
I was never having any issues over the deal... I like good deals as much as anyone. smiling smiley

And lol... probably right, Monday isn't the day, Friday probably was.

As for policies - after the Buy.com class action lawsuit 6 or 7 years ago, a lot of online vendors adjusted policies. The real flap with Buy.com and why they lost on the LCD pricing error was because that was back in the day they were still CHARGING the credit card as soon as the order was placed. In California, that effects as a legal contract.

Pretty much though - if they charge your card, they'd have to fulfill or face possible issue. This is not the same as authorizing your card only.

And all of that said - an honest mistake is an honest mistake. I'd be disappointed, but not angry this was a mistake (vs. a limited special for real that could very well be honored) and the sales are canceled. If it was an honest mistake - the deal never really existed to begin with... and then maybe just a coupon or something to make up for the wasted time and putting personal info up might balance.

Truthfully - hope the orders get filled. smiling smiley



OWC Larry
Other World Computing
[www.macsales.com]
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 18, 2007 09:28PM
just ordered 2 from mwave. I guess I'll know by the end of the week if I get them or not.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 18, 2007 09:43PM
If I don't get it, no big loss. I'd rather the OWC on-the-go drive any day. But it was too good a possibility to pass up.

FWIW, my order still says "pending review".



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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: Psurfer
Date: March 18, 2007 09:44PM
I'm in! MWave- thanks Silencio.
And the first thing I'm a gonna do when it gets here, is weigh it up on the USB scale.
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Re: Flaming hot: 80 gig portable firewire drive $28 shipped
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: March 18, 2007 09:46PM
I hedged my bet, picked one up from mwave.com $35.54 shipped.

Hey Larry, how can you tell it's all Ingram customers?




Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
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Did anybody get a confirmation...
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 18, 2007 10:07PM
...from SW?

I got one from Amazon/PC Universe.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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