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Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: DP
Date: September 17, 2021 06:14AM
Never even heard of this outfit till I saw this article.

Lucid Motors, a startup automaker, has unseated Tesla, the dominant maker of electric cars, as the producer of the electric vehicle that can travel farthest on a single charge.

Lucid’s top-of-the-line Air Dream Edition Range can drive 520 miles on a full battery, the Environmental Protection Agency said Thursday, beating by more than 100 miles the Tesla Model S Long Range, previously the car that could go the farthest on a charge.

But Lucid’s cars will occupy a luxurious niche in the market. The Air Dream Edition starts at $169,000 before federal and state incentives, although the company has said it will eventually offer more affordable versions of the Air, including one that will sell for about $77,000. The company is also working on an SUV.


[www.sfgate.com]





A throwback image to celebrate Autumn.

Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2021 06:25AM
They might have beaten Tesla in range but how many people will actually buy a Lucid?

$169,000 is a serious chunk of change for "most" people. Even at the eventual lower price model the extended battery will be $$$. Sounds like they're following the Tesla model of $$ car first, cheaper ones later.

What is their changing network going to look like? It's all about the network. A Tesla supercharger can put 200 miles on in 15 minutes. That's a fast food and bathroom break for most people.

Personally, it's not an 520 battery range for me but the price - Tesla is in my reasonable range and I'm hoping that Ford's F150 Lightning will be too. Tesla's cyber truck is just too ugly for me in spite of the cutting edge design.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2021 06:30AM by Lizabeth.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 17, 2021 06:33AM
Pikers. The solar car challenge cars do 3,000 km without a charge.

[worldsolarchallenge.org]
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 17, 2021 06:35AM
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.



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The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 17, 2021 06:56AM
it's not as bfugly as the Tesla, but still bugly enough flavorless aerodynamic.
When they make them with nicer lines, 246, or Pegaso, Zagato



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 17, 2021 07:00AM
.....could it be....Lucid....dreaming.....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 17, 2021 07:17AM
Everybody starts somewhere.

It's whether or not they go the distance.

This is much better looking than the Teslas, though it still looks like it was designed by people who never designed a car before.

It has a very definite saloon look that loses a bit of style between the tires, like it was designed with a straight edge.

It's the windows that put me off a little, maybe a bit too low for the length, dunno.

But still more car-like than a Tesla.

Teslas weren't really affordable for a lot of people, and this isn't much different.

What may be different is the interior.

Teslas' interiors have been somewhat spartan or at least spare to my eye, nowhere near as stylish as a lot of American cars.

Maybe the Lucid while improve on that.

A pricey car should have a trim level(s) that reflect some of the cost.

Choice is good, competition is good.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 07:42AM
Competition is great. They have yet to ‘make’ and sell any cars. They have a promise of the first 100 at the end of this month.

This is their version of a Tesla Model S. Expensive and sold to those that want to claim to be an early adopter. Buy one if you are wealthy, knowing there’s a chance the car lasts longer than the company.

I’d love to see Tesla make a 500 mile range car. If they offered it in a model Y form factor, I bet it would sell well.

But I know why they don’t. Batteries. They cannot make enough batteries as it is for their current announced lineup of Cybertruck and Semi.

I suspect that in 3 years, Tesla will be the number one seller of a 500 mile range car, if Lucid takes off. If not, it is not a major market segment.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2021 07:43AM
Quote
RAMd®d
Everybody starts somewhere.

It's whether or not they go the distance.

This is much better looking than the Teslas, though it still looks like it was designed by people who never designed a car before.

It has a very definite saloon look that loses a bit of style between the tires, like it was designed with a straight edge.

It's the windows that put me off a little, maybe a bit too low for the length, dunno.

But still more car-like than a Tesla.

Teslas weren't really affordable for a lot of people, and this isn't much different.

What may be different is the interior.

Teslas' interiors have been somewhat spartan or at least spare to my eye, nowhere near as stylish as a lot of American cars.

Maybe the Lucid while improve on that.

A pricey car should have a trim level(s) that reflect some of the cost.

Choice is good, competition is good.

Competition is good, I don't have an argument with that...

Next question is this: have you test driven a Tesla? It's worth the investment of time just to do that once. The interior is very different from most auto makers but that doesn't mean no thought was given to the design. A lot of what they did makes sense after driving it and being a passenger (we own a model 3) My only grip is getting out of it but that's part of "growing old sucks" and preferring my old GEO Tracker that I step in and out of easily. Which is why I'm looking hard at the F150 Lightning (besides feeding the inner kid with a long desired truck)
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2021 07:44AM
Quote
Racer X
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.

The SO usually charges it to 280 - he got the extended battery.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 07:46AM
Tesla interior - we love our model Y. I’m drawing a blank on what we miss in terms of interior compared to our minivan that we replaced with this mini SUV.

The main gripe we have is the lack of a heated steering wheel. That’s in the process of getting added to future model 3 and Y model, as I recall.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2021 07:49AM
One more thing: The CEO is an ex-Tesla employee. What does that say???
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 17, 2021 07:59AM
Quote
Lizabeth
Which is why I'm looking hard at the F150 Lightning (besides feeding the inner kid with a long desired truck)

I want to get one just to say, "Put it in the Mega Super Frunk!"

Or is it Super Mega-Frunk?
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 17, 2021 08:16AM
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.



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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 17, 2021 08:32AM
Quote
Fritz
it's not as bfugly as the Tesla, but still bugly enough flavorless aerodynamic.
When they make them with nicer lines, 246, or Pegaso, Zagato

Are you one of those Luddites (in the kindest sense) who believes an automobile MUST have a grill of some sort to "look like a real automobile", even if it doesn't need one?
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: September 17, 2021 09:13AM
Lucid has at least three opportunities to beat Tesla, totally aside from performance (i.e., handling, acceleration) and interior quality.

1. From everything I've heard, Tesla's post-sales customer relationship management is miserable-bad communication, failure to meet commitments, big difficulties in getting parts/repairs, etc.

2. There are reports of terribly inconsistent production quality on the Model 3 and Model Y.

3. It sounds like Tesla's (aluminum?) bodies/frames are nearly impossible to repair.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 09:41AM
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 09:44AM
Quote
anonymouse1
Lucid has at least three opportunities to beat Tesla, totally aside from performance (i.e., handling, acceleration) and interior quality.

1. From everything I've heard, Tesla's post-sales customer relationship management is miserable-bad communication, failure to meet commitments, big difficulties in getting parts/repairs, etc.

2. There are reports of terribly inconsistent production quality on the Model 3 and Model Y.

3. It sounds like Tesla's (aluminum?) bodies/frames are nearly impossible to repair.

I am an owner on a Model Y made in the middle of the pandemic, one of the first 6000 cars off the assembly line. The production quality could have been better, but the issues we have are either aesthetic or have been fixed etc.

Ford has has a terrible time with their first pure EV, getting delayed shipping, stopping production, recalling their first cars off the assembly line.

GM has had a terrible time with their Bolt, as posted here.

Moving to an entirely new platform - EV versus ICE - is HARD.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 09:46AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
Lizabeth
Which is why I'm looking hard at the F150 Lightning (besides feeding the inner kid with a long desired truck)

I want to get one just to say, "Put it in the Mega Super Frunk!"

Or is it Super Mega-Frunk?

We love our frunk on our Y! Fantastic for traveling - we put any/all valuables there and still have all of the great storage of the back of the SUV (which would otherwise be visible).
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2021 09:48AM
Quote
Fritz
it's not as bfugly as the Tesla, but still bugly enough flavorless aerodynamic.
When they make them with nicer lines, 246, or Pegaso, Zagato

In defense, the physical properties of air around a metal object means certain design constraints. That's why so many modern cars 'look' the same in silhouette.

I think design considerations will be an opportunity in general for differentiation in the market place for sure. Tesla does not offer a lot of color choices, for example, as a trivial area where others could be 'better'.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Competition is Good
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 17, 2021 10:09AM
Quote
RAMd®d
Everybody starts somewhere.

It's whether or not they go the distance..

I see what you did there!
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 17, 2021 10:22AM
Quote
DeusxMac

Are you one of those Luddites (in the kindest sense) who believes an automobile MUST have a grill of some sort to "look like a real automobile", even if it doesn't need one?

nah, I liked the T when it first hit the view screen, but as I look at more and more curvaceous cars of days gone by, I think enough of aerodynamics of today. If the car is so damn efficient, put a little pretty back in. Every car looks like and egg on wheels.

I'd like my next car to be an EV, but I'd sooner convert a 50s finner, Traction Avant, Packard, Alfa, Fiat, Victoria Coupe, Rolls, Jag etc, if I could find a good body without a engine or frame.



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 17, 2021 10:27AM
I want to buy a Porsche 911 EV conversion kit and convert my 66 Corvair to EV. That would be a mean machine.



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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 17, 2021 10:30AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
anonymouse1
Lucid has at least three opportunities to beat Tesla, totally aside from performance (i.e., handling, acceleration) and interior quality.

1. From everything I've heard, Tesla's post-sales customer relationship management is miserable-bad communication, failure to meet commitments, big difficulties in getting parts/repairs, etc.

2. There are reports of terribly inconsistent production quality on the Model 3 and Model Y.

3. It sounds like Tesla's (aluminum?) bodies/frames are nearly impossible to repair.

I am an owner on a Model Y made in the middle of the pandemic, one of the first 6000 cars off the assembly line. The production quality could have been better, but the issues we have are either aesthetic or have been fixed etc.

Ford has has a terrible time with their first pure EV, getting delayed shipping, stopping production, recalling their first cars off the assembly line.

GM has had a terrible time with their Bolt, as posted here.

Moving to an entirely new platform - EV versus ICE - is HARD.

Leaf still humming away…
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 17, 2021 10:39AM
mmmm '66 Corvair, a family fave.



!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 17, 2021 10:43AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.

Hand building a similarly spec'ed vehicle for a similar price would be within reach of just about any car company. But building at volume requires battery supply. No one but Tesla has even close to sufficient supply. VW is building factories as fast as they can, but it still won't be enough. GM is building battery capacity...slowly. They have a battery plant under construction in Lordstown OH I believe. I think they announced plans for a second one in Nashville, and preliminary plans for 2 more, but they haven't even announced the locations yet. Those won't be online earlier than 2025 most likely. They'll still be terribly under-supplied for batteries. Tesla's annual production capacity is currently 50GWh and it isn't enough to keep up with their demand, but they're aiming for multiple TWh capacity in the near future. GM's two plants represent a potential 70GWh, but it still won't be enough if GM wants to really compete with Tesla. By 2023 Tesla will likely be over 200GWh with production in Sparks, Austin, Shenghai, and Berlin...and it still won't be enough. Tesla has walked a tightrope with battery supply and demand. The Sparks factory in NV was a stretch and everyone laughed about it from the outset, but now its looking like it wasn't ambitious enough.



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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 17, 2021 11:10AM
have you test driven a Tesla?


I've not driven a Tesla, lately.

Or at all, if I'm honest.

But I've sat in one, and lookie-loued into a few.

The interiors look plain to me.



Which is why I'm looking hard at the F150 Lightning (besides feeding the inner kid with a long desired truck)


I've never been a truck guy, ever.

I've never been one of those idiots who do the 'trucks are compensating for little units' guy either.

Just not a truck guy.

Until the F-150 Lightening.

Yowza!



Are you one of those Luddites (in the kindest sense) who believes an automobile MUST have a grill of some sort to "look like a real automobile", even if it doesn't need one?


I don't know about him, but I'm one of those guys with an eye for design details and believe if an automobile doesn't have a grille, then it MUST look like one wasn't forgotten.

Further, a grille has alway been an element of great design for a great many cars, so it can be a great design cue.

That they're not needed need NOT be a reason to eliminate them, but if it is, then don't make in look like Grandpa with his lower teeth missing.

Now, I do like that the Volt and F-150 look like real cars and trucks.

That's not a requirement, but whatever a manufacturer makes 'it' look like, make it look good, make it look like one won't think 'what happened to the grille?!

I think all the Teslas and the Lucid aren't quite there and it's little to do with the lack of a grille.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2021 11:12AM by RAMd®d.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: September 17, 2021 11:20AM
I wish Lucid well... competition is good.
But, wake me when they've shipped 100,000 vehicles. Until they do, their pretty prototype is just that.
It's little more than the five hand built prototypes that Elio Motors has been shopping around for the last six years, with no production equipment, and an empty factory. I had high hopes for them, too... but they've gone nowhere. And that wasn't even an EV! (though, they have announced a vaporware EV model...).



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: kj
Date: September 17, 2021 11:27AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.

"Crucially, this landmark has been achieved by Lucid’s world-leading, in-house EV technology, not by simply installing an oversize battery pack,” said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. “Our race-proven 900V battery and BMS technology, our miniaturized drive units, coupled with our Wunderbox technology endow Lucid Air with ultra-high efficiency, enabling it to travel more miles from less battery energy."

They are at least saying the range is a result of better efficiency, not a larger battery pack.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 17, 2021 11:31AM
And of course, I think there are many examples of grilles being ridiculously superfluous.















But I understand that others won't agree.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 17, 2021 12:44PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and also a relative thing. The Volt is a good looking car in my opinion, but really it's nothing special. But compared to a Prius it looks like a Ferrari. I like the look of all the Teslas. The F150 Lightning does nothing for me. It looks just like all the other F150s, and that's what they've looked like since the late 70s. The Rivian and Cybertruck definitely look different but it isn't a bad look. But anyone that says they're ugly is certainly entitled to their opinion.



**************************************
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 17, 2021 01:51PM
I'm really don't care about looks, hell I drove an Element. The Lightning is too big and too expensive for me, the Maverick is interesting but not an electric. I'll hold out until there is either an all-EV Maverick or (preferably) Ranger under $30k



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: davester
Date: September 17, 2021 02:32PM
Quote
Racer X
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.

That's misleading. You only set a Tesla up that way when you are buzzing around town on short trips and slap it on the charger every day. For long trips you charge it up all the way to the top and if necessary can take it down almost to the bottom. Bottom line, you hav all of the stated range available to you whenever you want to take a long trip. It only takes a tiny bit of planning (say 20 minutes of extra charging) to do so.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 17, 2021 07:16PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.

It comes down to battery, motor and aerodynamics. Batteries (electric storage capacity really) is what is holding EVERYONE back.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 17, 2021 07:19PM
Quote
davester
Quote
Racer X
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.

That's misleading. You only set a Tesla up that way when you are buzzing around town on short trips and slap it on the charger every day. For long trips you charge it up all the way to the top and if necessary can take it down almost to the bottom. Bottom line, you hav all of the stated range available to you whenever you want to take a long trip. It only takes a tiny bit of planning (say 20 minutes of extra charging) to do so.

What if you need @350 mile range every day, and don't want to charge during the day? That's every day. Not going to last more than a couple of years with those kind of charge/discharge cycles.

I would LOVE a @35k vehicle with the ability to do that day after day for more than a few years.



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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: davester
Date: September 17, 2021 09:18PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
davester
Quote
Racer X
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.

That's misleading. You only set a Tesla up that way when you are buzzing around town on short trips and slap it on the charger every day. For long trips you charge it up all the way to the top and if necessary can take it down almost to the bottom. Bottom line, you hav all of the stated range available to you whenever you want to take a long trip. It only takes a tiny bit of planning (say 20 minutes of extra charging) to do so.

What if you need @350 mile range every day, and don't want to charge during the day? That's every day. Not going to last more than a couple of years with those kind of charge/discharge cycles.

I would LOVE a @35k vehicle with the ability to do that day after day for more than a few years.

For that kind of absurd use case you'd use a different vehicle, like an airplane.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 17, 2021 09:29PM
Keep in mind Racer, the vast majority of people do not have a use case like that. Almost everyone uses their cars as commuter vehicles, coupled with the occasional long distance trip (and Tesla has the only charging network to make the latter practical).
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Pat
Date: September 17, 2021 09:33PM
Quote
davester

For that kind of absurd use case you'd use a different vehicle, like an airplane.

You obviously have no clue how many miles a service tech/skilled trade can put in in a day.
I drove 300 miles a day for months doing a job in Bakersfield. San Diego, Brentwood, Ventura, Redlands all in the same day for service calls. Phoenix out and back in a day.
Since the trucks didn't have the range, we did take a plane for the Maui job.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: September 17, 2021 10:31PM
Quote
Pat
Quote
davester

For that kind of absurd use case you'd use a different vehicle, like an airplane.

You obviously have no clue how many miles a service tech/skilled trade can put in in a day.
I drove 300 miles a day for months doing a job in Bakersfield. San Diego, Brentwood, Ventura, Redlands all in the same day for service calls. Phoenix out and back in a day.
Since the trucks didn't have the range, we did take a plane for the Maui job.

Tesla super charger: 15 minutes = 200 miles. A fast food and bathroom break. PLUS it would route you to the next one…

Bakersfield has 3, San Diego7-9, Brentwood 1, Ventura (Oxnard) 1, Redlands 1 and Phoenix 3

It’s not the battery but the charging network that’s important in the case of a 300 mile day.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2021 10:54PM by Lizabeth.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: September 17, 2021 10:50PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
davester
Quote
Racer X
the deal with the stated range is, for max battery life/cycles, you don't drop below 10-20%, and you don't charge beyond @80%. so you realistically have, for max battery life, 60% of the stated range.

You drop a Tesla 3 to down around 200 miles range on regular use.

That's misleading. You only set a Tesla up that way when you are buzzing around town on short trips and slap it on the charger every day. For long trips you charge it up all the way to the top and if necessary can take it down almost to the bottom. Bottom line, you hav all of the stated range available to you whenever you want to take a long trip. It only takes a tiny bit of planning (say 20 minutes of extra charging) to do so.

What if you need @350 mile range every day, and don't want to charge during the day? That's every day. Not going to last more than a couple of years with those kind of charge/discharge cycles.

I would LOVE a @35k vehicle with the ability to do that day after day for more than a few years.

Who drives 350miles/day unless it’s for work? If it’s for business expenses you’d likely be writing off that car every 2 years because it’s not going to last more than that. No ICE vehicle is going to endure 85k miles/year for more than 2 years without tons of maintenance. An EV likely would last longer in that scenario actually. Tesloop had vehicles traveling between San Diego and LA. Several of their teslas had more than 400k miles on them.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2021 10:51PM by ztirffritz.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 18, 2021 08:58AM
Quote
Racer X
What if you need @350 mile range every day, and don't want to charge during the day? That's every day.

huh smiley

Just curious; if you could average 60 mph, 350 miles would take close to 6 hours of driving. With an 8 hour work day, that leaves a little over 2 hours for actual work.

With multiple stops during the day, you might only average 50 mph, which would mean 7 hours of driving and only 1 hour left for actual work in 8 hours.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 18, 2021 10:02AM
Quote
kj
Quote
sekker
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.

"Crucially, this landmark has been achieved by Lucid’s world-leading, in-house EV technology, not by simply installing an oversize battery pack,” said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. “Our race-proven 900V battery and BMS technology, our miniaturized drive units, coupled with our Wunderbox technology endow Lucid Air with ultra-high efficiency, enabling it to travel more miles from less battery energy."

They are at least saying the range is a result of better efficiency, not a larger battery pack.

I’ve seen those claims. And yet - do the math on their first car and the EPA estimates. Take their larger battery, and upscale the model S from Tesla. You get very close to 500 mile range then on the Tesla.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 18, 2021 05:22PM
Electric cars are currently at the same stage computers were with 286-chips. Give it a few years and we'll be at 486, then pentium, etc. Don't think that today's limitations will be the same in a few years.

That is why the used EV market will be hard to predict. What value will a 2021 300 mile range Tesla 3 have when the 2025 Tesla 3 can go 600 miles or a 2030 can go 900 miles.

This is completely different than an ICE where a 1985 Chevette could go 300 miles on a fill up and a 2021 Kia Rio goes 400 miles



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-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 18, 2021 05:41PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and also a relative thing.


Agreed, and I doubt anyone would dispute that except the types that like to couch opinion as proclamation.



The F150 Lightning does nothing for me. It looks just like all the other F150s, and that's what they've looked like since the late 70s.


It is the same basic look over the years but it's tough to change that in any significant way without compromising utility.

And aside from all its electrical power distribution, its bed is still the same size and it's got that mother-frunking trunk!

That is awesome.

It's not only not given up anything of significance in its rebirth as an eV, but it's even gained more of what most people chose a truck for — carrying capacity, not to mention a measure of security.

As an example, I give you the Rivian and CyberTruck.

The Rivian looks ok to me but it's not much of a return on utility.

I look at the Cybertruck and am appalled, and its utility seems even less than that of the Rivian, but I haven't studied either much at all.

Ok, the ramp is a little trick, but just a little.





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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 18, 2021 09:33PM
I should electrify my Excalibur. I’d keep the grill.





Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says
Posted by: kj
Date: September 21, 2021 05:51PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
kj
Quote
sekker
Quote
ztirffritz
I didn’t see what the battery size is. I’m more interested in what the miles/kWh rating is. If they put in a 120kwh battery and got 520miles that’s not as impressive. That just means they crammed a bigger battery into it. That’s what GM is doing with their hummer truck. It will weigh 4 or 5 tons. The rocket equation applies to EVs too.

Yes, one key innovation is their larger battery pack plus enhanced aerodynamics.

At this time, I do not see why another company cannot build a similar-specced EV if they have enough access to battery production.

"Crucially, this landmark has been achieved by Lucid’s world-leading, in-house EV technology, not by simply installing an oversize battery pack,” said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. “Our race-proven 900V battery and BMS technology, our miniaturized drive units, coupled with our Wunderbox technology endow Lucid Air with ultra-high efficiency, enabling it to travel more miles from less battery energy."

They are at least saying the range is a result of better efficiency, not a larger battery pack.

I’ve seen those claims. And yet - do the math on their first car and the EPA estimates. Take their larger battery, and upscale the model S from Tesla. You get very close to 500 mile range then on the Tesla.

Lucid Air: 113 kWh. 517mi. range. 4.58mi/kWh

Tesla Model S: 98 kWh. 402mi. range. 4.1mi/kWh

So 4.1mi/kWh with the larger 113 kWh gives you 463mi. of range, which is 54mi. short.

I would say the Lucid is significantly more efficient (half a mile per kWh more efficient).

I don't care whether Tesla succeeds, per se, I just hope electric succeeds. So to me, that's great if Lucid has made some progress.
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