advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 19, 2021 07:38PM
Having covered similar missing persons cases in the past, I didn't have a good feeling about her well being. The boyfriend was uncooperative and is now "missing". I speculate things will probably not end well regarding his well being either. I have no evidence, just a news gut feeling based on his previous behavior. I could be wrong and he could be perfectly innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law. It's a terrible situation, I feel badly for this woman's family. I hope they can find some justice.



[us.yahoo.com]

A body "consistent with the description of" Gabby Petito, the 22-year-old woman who went missing while on a cross-country road trip with her boyfriend, was discovered in the Bridger-Teton National Forest in Wyoming.

The FBI Denver, the National Park Service and law enforcement made the announcement during a news conference Sunday evening in Grand Teton National Park. Charles Jones, the FBI’s supervisory senior resident agent, said that a full forensic identification hasn’t yet been completed, but investigators did notify Petito’s parents.

A cause of death was also undetermined. Jones declined to comment further on the investigation.

"We continue to seek information from anyone who utilized the Spread Creek Dispersed Camping Area between the dates of August 27 and August 30. Anyone that may have had contact with Gabby, or her boyfriend or who may have seen their vehicle in that area, please share any new information with the FBI," Jones said.




Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 07:43PM by pRICE cUBE.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 19, 2021 07:41PM
.....unfortunately, from the beginning, something was off and one could tell that the ending......was not going to be happy......same goes for the boyfriend......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 19, 2021 07:53PM
Very sad.
I did not see this ending well. sad smiley





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 19, 2021 09:38PM
a weekend amusement for the tabloid industry.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: September 19, 2021 09:50PM
This was writ pretty plain.

September 1, fiancée returns home without her after a road trip that started in June and included the boondocks.

Towards the middle of that August road trip, they were involved in a physical domestic dispute. In one report by CNN, police described her as weeping and barely able to speak. Yet oddly, it is also reported that in his report of the incident, one officer described events as, "After evaluating the totality of the circumstances, I do not believe the situation escalated to the level of a domestic assault as much as that of a mental health crisis…”.

After staying in consistent contact with her family during the trip, she suddenly stopped towards the end of August.

Upon his return the fiancée sequesters himself and talks to no one; does not report her disappearance to authorities, does not contact her family.

Still does not come forward when her family contacts authorities on their own initiative.

His family refuses to make any comment, immediately referring authorities to a lawyer when contacted.

Tuesday, according to his family, the fiancée disappeared altogether, supposedly taking a backpack and heading out to a vast Florida nature preserve. Authorities have been searching the area, but have been unable to find him.

‘Mundane’ murder or something more convoluted, such as her taking her own life and the fiancée fleeing out of fear of being blamed, sadly, there was little to provide hope for her safe return.



National Suicide Prevention Hotline tel:1-800-273-8255

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 20, 2021 10:38AM
Doesn't look like suicide to me. Looks like foul play at the very least. FBI is swarming the Laundrie's house in Florida right now. No longer looking for him in that big swamp.

The parents of Brian were put into a LE vehicle.

That video of their police encounter in Utah may be valuable for future training in the "what not to do" and "how to spot intimate partner abuse" categories. That was likely her final cry for help and the missed opportunity to save her. I'm sure the officers followed their training and did the best they could with good intentions, but it shows the deficit in that training.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 20, 2021 11:09AM
Quote
Lemon Drop


That video of their police encounter in Utah may be valuable for future training in the "what not to do" and "how to spot intimate partner abuse" categories. That was likely her final cry for help and the missed opportunity to save her. I'm sure the officers followed their training and did the best they could with good intentions, but it shows the deficit in that training.


Unfortunately, police do not have the resources to devote massive time to each domestic case they encounter, especially in Grand County, Ut. It is a VAST rural area with patches of tourist attractions. The encounter shown in the video resulted in an order to stay apart for a determined amount of time because the boyfriend was adamant that he didn’t want to press charges. Police have no sure way of knowing that the possible aggressor in one case may be the victim the next. Most rural police departments only have resources for crime suppression and little in the way of prevention. Social services in these rural counties is also strained and spread out.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 11:23AM by pRICE cUBE.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 20, 2021 11:41AM
When police officers located a van and pulled it over for a traffic stop, the couple admitted to arguing and that Petito had slapped Laundrie, according to the report. The couple also stated to police that Laundrie did not hit Petito.

Petito told police that she suffers from severe anxiety and other medical conditions, which were redacted from the police report, and that the arguments had been building for the past few days. Police labeled the incident as a "mental/emotional break" rather than a domestic assault, according to the report.



Apparently Petito didn't ask for help or to be removed from the van taken away from Laundrie, to some place of safety.

In CA and possibly other states, evidence of physical battery is an element of domestic violence.

Such evidence requires a mandatory arrest of suspect(s) but without it police action is severely curtailed.

A 'domestic dispute' does not rise to the level of a crime.

Even if a trained phycologist or psychiatrist was available at that traffic stop, what would the options be, given specific state law.

In CA, with no evidence of physical battery, if a victim didn't ask or volunteer to be transported to some other place, about the only other option might be a 5150 WI arrest, and that's a huge leap.

Did she ask to be take away somewhere and they refused?

Was she a danger to herself or others and unable to care for her and others' welfare?

Did Laundry present as a possible threat to her safety?

Without some pre-crime prescience, or at least more details of what occurred at the stop, I don't know what more could have been done by the police.

Lacking knowledge of an impending murder or physical violence, and having a gut feeling they couldn't articulate, maybe they could have talked her into leaving with them.

Was that even an option Petito would have entertained?

There was a time in CA where a great many DV calls got 'kissed-off' for various reasons, the main being a refusal by the victim to follow up with filing a written complaint to the DA.

This resulted in new law requiring the mandatory arrest of suspects with evidence of DV, taking the decision making out of the hands of the victim and police.

Based on what's been presented in the article, I don't know what training could have saved her life.

Some fact or facts may be found to show how police could have or should have prevented any harm to Petito.

Or not.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 20, 2021 11:43AM
.....only watched part of the video but it seems or at least he claimed that she was the one that attacked him......hopefully, the facts will come up eventually.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 20, 2021 12:12PM
Indicate if you watched the entire hour long body cam video of this encounter with 5 or 6 male officers, 3 responding vehicles to Brian's erratic, dangerous driving, which was the reason they got stopped. (Moab police apparently had plenty of response resources)

The various media interpretations and selective editing of this are interesting.

Gabby describes what she is experiencing, including being hit and emotionally abused by Brian. She is often sobbing , and distraught throughout. She constantly apologizes for making Brian mad, a classic sign of abuse.

Brian stays cool and appears to bond with the officers, at the end one fists bumps him as they joke about "toxic women. "

Many things could have gone differently here.

They offer to take him to a hotel and leave her with the van, which belongs to her. Maybe they thought that would be her chance to escape, but they offered her no meaningful resources. Like going someplace private away from Brian and talking to a woman. They clearly see that something is wrong but the response is lacking. It is not about forcing her to do something but about offering support and resources.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 12:24PM by Lemon Drop.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: testcase
Date: September 20, 2021 12:23PM
"Some fact or facts may be found to show how police could have or should have prevented any harm to Petito." (MY emphasis on YOUR word "any")

BULLSH!T. The Police found and interviewed BOTH parties AND, recommended that they separate at least for that night (which I think the couple did although the Police probably had NO legal authority to force such a separation). AT THAT TIME, there was NO crime(s) committed. Had the the Police "done more", you'd probably be the first one screaming about a "Police State" and b!tched about Police who over used / over reached their authority. People NEED to be held accountable for their actions and choice, ESPECIALLY when said actions / choices have negative consequences! IF the remains turn out to be Gabby Petito's, I expect the follow up investigation will show prior evidence of "domestic problems" that Gabby let slide. I know this sounds harsh, ESPECIALLY to Liberals but, that's life. Get used to it and learn to accept what YOU'RE responsible for.

Perhaps you should contact authorities and insist that "the remains" be sent to "the Jeffersonian" for processing. Sheesh.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 20, 2021 12:38PM
You think you've seen it all with victim shaming and blaming, and then...
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 20, 2021 01:00PM
"Some fact or facts may be found to show how police could have or should have prevented any harm to Petito." (MY emphasis on YOUR word "any")


Exactly how are you taking to?

Are you drunk.

What is your agenda in completely ignoring Some fact or facts may be found...'


Perhaps you should contact authorities and insist that "the remains" be sent to "the Jeffersonian" for processing. Sheesh.


Again, who the @#$%& are you talking to?

Because it it's me, you got your head up your ass.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 20, 2021 01:27PM
Back to the case.
There is an important update.

A 911 call has been released . It contradicts the police report. The caller says they saw Brian slapping Gabby.

[www.foxnews.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 20, 2021 01:48PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Back to the case.
There is an important update.

A 911 call has been released . It contradicts the police report. The caller says they saw Brian slapping Gabby.

[www.foxnews.com]

Gee, that sounds like a crime, even to someone as conservative as I am. How about you, testcase?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 20, 2021 03:03PM
.....think as more information comes out......the picture may just get darker....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 20, 2021 04:37PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Indicate if you watched the entire hour long body cam video of this encounter with 5 or 6 male officers, 3 responding vehicles to Brian's erratic, dangerous driving, which was the reason they got stopped. (Moab police apparently had plenty of response resources)

The various media interpretations and selective editing of this are interesting.

Gabby describes what she is experiencing, including being hit and emotionally abused by Brian. She is often sobbing , and distraught throughout. She constantly apologizes for making Brian mad, a classic sign of abuse.

Brian stays cool and appears to bond with the officers, at the end one fists bumps him as they joke about "toxic women. "

Many things could have gone differently here.

They offer to take him to a hotel and leave her with the van, which belongs to her. Maybe they thought that would be her chance to escape, but they offered her no meaningful resources. Like going someplace private away from Brian and talking to a woman. They clearly see that something is wrong but the response is lacking. It is not about forcing her to do something but about offering support and resources.

Reading descriptions like this, I wonder how much it would have made a difference, had the responding officers been female rather than male.

Cpt. Olivia Benson, where are you?




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 20, 2021 05:35PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Lemon Drop
Indicate if you watched the entire hour long body cam video of this encounter with 5 or 6 male officers, 3 responding vehicles to Brian's erratic, dangerous driving, which was the reason they got stopped. (Moab police apparently had plenty of response resources)

The various media interpretations and selective editing of this are interesting.

Gabby describes what she is experiencing, including being hit and emotionally abused by Brian. She is often sobbing , and distraught throughout. She constantly apologizes for making Brian mad, a classic sign of abuse.

Brian stays cool and appears to bond with the officers, at the end one fists bumps him as they joke about "toxic women. "

Many things could have gone differently here.

They offer to take him to a hotel and leave her with the van, which belongs to her. Maybe they thought that would be her chance to escape, but they offered her no meaningful resources. Like going someplace private away from Brian and talking to a woman. They clearly see that something is wrong but the response is lacking. It is not about forcing her to do something but about offering support and resources.

Reading descriptions like this, I wonder how much it would have made a difference, had the responding officers been female rather than male.

Cpt. Olivia Benson, where are you?

Right? Cpt. Benson would have caught Brian by now.


Having a female officer there would make a big difference in her comfort level and increase the likelihood that she would trust enough to ask for help. We need a lot more female first responders.

From Margaret Atwood: "Men are afraid of being laughed at by women. Women are afraid men will kill them."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: btfc
Date: September 20, 2021 09:25PM
‘ Melissa Hulls can still hear Gabby Petito’s voice.

On Aug. 12, the visitor and resource protection supervisor at Arches National Park, heard a call come over her radio of a possible domestic assault, stemming from an argument in Moab between Petito and her fiance, Brian Laundrie.

Hulls arrived to find the couple pulled over by a Moab police officer inside the park. Knowing that in a domestic violence situation the female usually feels more comfortable talking with another female, she focused on Petito, who at that point was sitting in the back of a police cruiser.

“I can still hear her voice,” Hulls said in an exclusive interview with the Deseret News. “She wasn’t just a face on the milk carton, she was real to me.”

Hulls pictures the sobbing 22-year-old sitting in the back of the cruiser. She knows her mannerisms, just from the roughly hour-and-a half interaction.

“I was probably more candid with her than I should've been,” Hulls recalls, warning Petito that her and Laundrie’s relationship had the markings of a “toxic” one.

“I was imploring with her to reevaluate the relationship, asking her if she was happy in the relationship with him, and basically saying this was an opportunity for her to find another path, to make a change in her life,” she said.

“She had a lot of anxiety about being away from him, I honestly thought if anything was going to change it would be after they got home to Florida.”

In the end, Petito stayed with Laundrie.

“This wasn't a good day for anybody. We thought we were making the right decision when we left them.” ‘


[www.deseret.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 20, 2021 09:59PM
.....the 911 call that lead to police coming was released.....the person said that the boyfriend slapped her......repeatedly......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 07:50AM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
.....the 911 call that lead to police coming was released.....the person said that the boyfriend slapped her......repeatedly......

Still not clear if the officers never heard that or ignored it. Doesn't appear that any officer interviewed the witness. And we have this female park ranger saying nobody was unsafe?
.

Brian should have been arrested for assault. And Gabby provided with DV resources. Highly likely she would have contacted her family if Brian had been arrested and somebody made it clear that the abuse was not her fault. They did the opposite.

Instead, these officers told Brian that Gabby was guilty and they could arrest HER. Imagine what this did to her emotionally. The men, and this female ranger, ganged up on her instead of helping her escape an abuser.

Shockingly bad but this is what happens to women in America every day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2021 07:52AM by Lemon Drop.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 07:56AM
Quote
btfc
‘ Melissa Hulls can still hear Gabby Petito’s voice.

....

In the end, Petito stayed with Laundrie.

“This wasn't a good day for anybody. We thought we were making the right decision when we left them.” ‘


[www.deseret.com]


I saw that ranger get out of the truck in the video, from a distance, thought they were male.

So much for presence of a female helping, it appears all she did was copy the line the cops were taking, that Gabby was at fault and this problem was hers alone to solve.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 09:43AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
NewtonMP2100
.....the 911 call that lead to police coming was released.....the person said that the boyfriend slapped her......repeatedly......

Still not clear if the officers never heard that or ignored it. Doesn't appear that any officer interviewed the witness. And we have this female park ranger saying nobody was unsafe?
.

Brian should have been arrested for assault. And Gabby provided with DV resources. Highly likely she would have contacted her family if Brian had been arrested and somebody made it clear that the abuse was not her fault. They did the opposite.

Instead, these officers told Brian that Gabby was guilty and they could arrest HER. Imagine what this did to her emotionally. The men, and this female ranger, ganged up on her instead of helping her escape an abuser.

Shockingly bad but this is what happens to women in America every day.

Gabby also told the cops that Brian grabbed her by the throat. No follow up questions. But they are going to arrest HER because you know, she is a hysterical woman.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 21, 2021 09:59AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
NewtonMP2100
.....the 911 call that lead to police coming was released.....the person said that the boyfriend slapped her......repeatedly......

Still not clear if the officers never heard that or ignored it. Doesn't appear that any officer interviewed the witness. And we have this female park ranger saying nobody was unsafe?
.

Brian should have been arrested for assault. And Gabby provided with DV resources. Highly likely she would have contacted her family if Brian had been arrested and somebody made it clear that the abuse was not her fault. They did the opposite.

Instead, these officers told Brian that Gabby was guilty and they could arrest HER. Imagine what this did to her emotionally. The men, and this female ranger, ganged up on her instead of helping her escape an abuser.

Shockingly bad but this is what happens to women in America every day.

Gabby also told the cops that Brian grabbed her by the throat. No follow up questions. But they are going to arrest HER because you know, she is a hysterical woman.

From commentary on this from a variety of places, I get the idea that both the police officers and the commentators were buying into the stereotypical abused woman often portrayed in the media - takes the abuse and doesn't hit back. Since she reportedly had hit him back some and wasn't calm like him, then just a domestic argument to be "handled" with minimum action past the response. But the reality is that the abused do often fight back, and are made to think it is their fault they did.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 21, 2021 10:35AM
Some people have the perception that the police should be all knowing and able to deal with the situation for ideal outcomes. Reality is that domestic situations are messy, disorderly, dangerous, and frequent. Police do not have the ability nor resources to save all victims of domestic violence. The psychology of abusive relationships and their possible long and dragged out conclusion can include multiple instances of defending the abuser. Police have their hands tied to an extent because the law can only go so far. The police must deal with the law, not the passions arguments of 20/20 hindsight and armchair quarterbacking. The possible victim in this case, Petito, probably had several previous incidents where friends and family might have been able to help her. Sadly, many victims in toxic relationships choose to help and defend their abusers. Until we know the cause of death and physical evidence that lead to it, it is not accurate to say she perished due to an abusive significant other.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 11:53AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
NewtonMP2100
.....the 911 call that lead to police coming was released.....the person said that the boyfriend slapped her......repeatedly......

Still not clear if the officers never heard that or ignored it. Doesn't appear that any officer interviewed the witness. And we have this female park ranger saying nobody was unsafe?
.

Brian should have been arrested for assault. And Gabby provided with DV resources. Highly likely she would have contacted her family if Brian had been arrested and somebody made it clear that the abuse was not her fault. They did the opposite.

Instead, these officers told Brian that Gabby was guilty and they could arrest HER. Imagine what this did to her emotionally. The men, and this female ranger, ganged up on her instead of helping her escape an abuser.

Shockingly bad but this is what happens to women in America every day.

Gabby also told the cops that Brian grabbed her by the throat. No follow up questions. But they are going to arrest HER because you know, she is a hysterical woman.

But the reality is that the abused do often fight back, and are made to think it is their fault they did.

Absolutely.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 12:00PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Some people have the perception that the police should be all knowing and able to deal with the situation for ideal outcomes. Reality is that domestic situations are messy, disorderly, dangerous, and frequent. Police do not have the ability nor resources to save all victims of domestic violence. The psychology of abusive relationships and their possible long and dragged out conclusion can include multiple instances of defending the abuser. Police have their hands tied to an extent because the law can only go so far. The police must deal with the law, not the passions arguments of 20/20 hindsight and armchair quarterbacking. The possible victim in this case, Petito, probably had several previous incidents where friends and family might have been able to help her. Sadly, many victims in toxic relationships choose to help and defend their abusers. Until we know the cause of death and physical evidence that lead to it, it is not accurate to say she perished due to an abusive significant other.

Except in this case they had a witness who saw Brian assault Gabby. In public, in daylight. They could have arrested him for that. No guesswork needed. .

But instead of focusing on her physical safety, it was the police who decided to be summer camp counselors and essentially take Brian to Bro-town instead of to jail, comparing Gabby to his ex-wife and fist bumping Brian.

And yes we don't know the cause of death, but it's fine to express a hunch about it on an obscure internet forum.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 21, 2021 12:19PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Some people have the perception that the police should be all knowing and able to deal with the situation for ideal outcomes. Reality is that domestic situations are messy, disorderly, dangerous, and frequent. Police do not have the ability nor resources to save all victims of domestic violence. The psychology of abusive relationships and their possible long and dragged out conclusion can include multiple instances of defending the abuser. Police have their hands tied to an extent because the law can only go so far. The police must deal with the law, not the passions arguments of 20/20 hindsight and armchair quarterbacking. The possible victim in this case, Petito, probably had several previous incidents where friends and family might have been able to help her. Sadly, many victims in toxic relationships choose to help and defend their abusers. Until we know the cause of death and physical evidence that lead to it, it is not accurate to say she perished due to an abusive significant other.

Except in this case they had a witness who saw Brian assault Gabby. In public, in daylight. They could have arrested him for that. No guesswork needed. .

But instead of focusing on her physical safety, it was the police who decided to be summer camp counselors and essentially take Brian to Bro-town instead of to jail, comparing Gabby to his ex-wife and fist bumping Brian.

And yes we don't know the cause of death, but it's fine to express a hunch about it on an obscure internet forum.


There is a report from a witness. That itself is not fully grounds for an arrest. Witnesses could mistaken what happened. What could be seen as “striking” could have been him putting his hands on her to stop her. Without video or photographic evidence, police need to look at other indicators. How far away was the witness from the couple? How long did this person watch this? Did the witness stay in scene to talk to the police? If so, did they sign a sworn statement? I am not defending anyone, I am pointing out that witness statements are not exclusively grounds for an arrest-able offense. It is likely the officers checked her physical appearance, looking for injuries. They looked at both of them and he had more apparent injuries. Expecting a police officer to be able to do a full psychoanalysis after interacting with a domestic incident is a high bar of expectations. Their job is to stop any existing crime, find facts, arrest based on evidence or recommend other solutions.

The Moab Police department has approximately 15 sworn officers, they don’t have the resources to prevent every crime in town. Police did what they could based in the law. If the alleged victim gets back with her significant other, police cannot stop them. It would be great is there were social workers and mental health experts on the scene but one is unlikely to find these resources in a small town remote, rural area.

If anyone on this forum suspects someone they known is in an abusive relationship, try to get them help. It may take dozens of tries. Breaking the cycle of violence is often very difficult for victims. Sometimes it takes several major incidents before a victim chooses to leave an abuser.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2021 12:21PM by pRICE cUBE.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 21, 2021 12:49PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Some people have the perception that the police should be all knowing and able to deal with the situation for ideal outcomes. Reality is that domestic situations are messy, disorderly, dangerous, and frequent. Police do not have the ability nor resources to save all victims of domestic violence. The psychology of abusive relationships and their possible long and dragged out conclusion can include multiple instances of defending the abuser. Police have their hands tied to an extent because the law can only go so far. The police must deal with the law, not the passions arguments of 20/20 hindsight and armchair quarterbacking. The possible victim in this case, Petito, probably had several previous incidents where friends and family might have been able to help her. Sadly, many victims in toxic relationships choose to help and defend their abusers. Until we know the cause of death and physical evidence that lead to it, it is not accurate to say she perished due to an abusive significant other.

Except in this case they had a witness who saw Brian assault Gabby. In public, in daylight. They could have arrested him for that. No guesswork needed. .

But instead of focusing on her physical safety, it was the police who decided to be summer camp counselors and essentially take Brian to Bro-town instead of to jail, comparing Gabby to his ex-wife and fist bumping Brian.

And yes we don't know the cause of death, but it's fine to express a hunch about it on an obscure internet forum.


There is a report from a witness. That itself is not fully grounds for an arrest. Witnesses could mistaken what happened. What could be seen as “striking” could have been him putting his hands on her to stop her. Without video or photographic evidence, police need to look at other indicators. How far away was the witness from the couple? How long did this person watch this? Did the witness stay in scene to talk to the police? If so, did they sign a sworn statement? I am not defending anyone, I am pointing out that witness statements are not exclusively grounds for an arrest-able offense. It is likely the officers checked her physical appearance, looking for injuries. They looked at both of them and he had more apparent injuries. Expecting a police officer to be able to do a full psychoanalysis after interacting with a domestic incident is a high bar of expectations. Their job is to stop any existing crime, find facts, arrest based on evidence or recommend other solutions.

The Moab Police department has approximately 15 sworn officers, they don’t have the resources to prevent every crime in town. Police did what they could based in the law. If the alleged victim gets back with her significant other, police cannot stop them. It would be great is there were social workers and mental health experts on the scene but one is unlikely to find these resources in a small town remote, rural area.

If anyone on this forum suspects someone they known is in an abusive relationship, try to get them help. It may take dozens of tries. Breaking the cycle of violence is often very difficult for victims. Sometimes it takes several major incidents before a victim chooses to leave an abuser.

It is standard policy in many police forces that once a report of physical contact between parties in a domestic dispute has been taken, they should be taken and separated before further questions are made. That did not happen here.

Instead as someone explained in another forum I read on this, they had both together, the entire exchange pretty much has them taking his story as the facts and did not follow up on hers or the person reporting this to 911 report of her being struck. Instead they hav basically indicated to her that they would be arresting her, not him, and one officer basically coaches her on what to say to not be arrested.

I don't think they did what they could. That could be both from inadequate training and assumptions made by the officers about the reported situation.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 02:00PM
Price,
There is no "witness statement " because it appears the police never interviewed that person. There is only a 911 call. It is also not clear if officers were told by the dispatcher about the slap that was witnessed.



The call plus his erratic driving was enough to send out 4 officers and a park ranger, and they devoted a lot of time to this. Lack of resources does not seem to be the problem here, it was their approach.

And they do not have to see an injury or get agreement from the victim to make an arrest. It's an arrest, not charges or conviction. The bar to arrest someone is pretty low.

Gabby's statements about being physically attacked and emotionally abused by Brian were ignored. Not sure why you keep defending these actions.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 21, 2021 02:29PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Price,
There is no "witness statement " because it appears the police never interviewed that person. There is only a 911 call. It is also not clear if officers were told by the dispatcher about the slap that was witnessed.



The call plus his erratic driving was enough to send out 4 officers and a park ranger, and they devoted a lot of time to this. Lack of resources does not seem to be the problem here, it was their approach.

And they do not have to see an injury or get agreement from the victim to make an arrest. It's an arrest, not charges or conviction. The bar to arrest someone is pretty low.

Gabby's statements about being physically attacked and emotionally abused by Brian were ignored. Not sure why you keep defending these actions.



I am not defending the police. I am looking at the totality of what we know, what the gaps of knowledge are, and what has yet to be proven. At this time, all the facts are not out yet. Acting as though we know all and fully comprehend all the laws involved and decisions police must make while viewing the event in his sight with assumed 20/20 vision is not what I am advocating. I am advocating a dispassionate approach to the evidence and fact finding. That’s how the potential victim in this case will get any kind of justice. If the police were wrong in this, I would like to see the exact policy or procedure that was not followed. The they can be held accountable if they did something incorrect.

I am looking at this case through my experience as a journalist . If there are any criminal justice professionals here, police officers, social workers, I would love you hear from you. I welcome expert analysis and use of facts.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2021 02:33PM by pRICE cUBE.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 21, 2021 03:43PM
......the 'fist bump' that one of the officer gave the BF......as well as the 'toxic woman' comment was uneasying....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 04:21PM
The preliminary autopsy results are out. Nothinng unexpected yet. It's her. Ruled homicide but cause of death not yet released. Brian is a "person of interest."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 21, 2021 05:01PM
....yup, just heard on news.....no real surprise......hopefully, they will get him but chances are he will get away.......they should charge his parents, as they waited what 3 days before reporting him 'missing' so they gave him 3 days head start to escape.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 21, 2021 10:12PM
Yup, this is getting huge play for days on the 'news'.
Good thing we don't hear much about 19 million Afghan women losing their basic human rights. (Someone might get upset)

Supposed news organizations suckering people by pushing these stories to the fore always pisses me off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2021 10:15PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 22, 2021 07:18AM
Quote
Steve G.
Yup, this is getting huge play for days on the 'news'.
Good thing we don't hear much about 19 million Afghan women losing their basic human rights. (Someone might get upset)

Supposed news organizations suckering people by pushing these stories to the fore always pisses me off.


Not sure what "news" you are referring to, but in the sources I read new stories appear front and center every day regarding Afghan women and girls. Obviously a story of great significance.

There are also less prominent stories in the NY Times, NPR, etc. regarding Gabby Petito, and nobody should apologize for this becoming a national story. It is only because of that attention that her body has been found and justice can be pursued against the person who harmed her. It also makes it more likely her fugitive boyfriend will be found.

Do I wish every missing person case got that level of support? Of course. We need to do better. There are some unique factors in Gabby's case which led to this being a story of national interest. Nobody has to follow it if they are not interested.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Remains "consistent with description" of missing van living social media personality found
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: September 22, 2021 07:42AM
Human nature tends to veer toward news on a national and state level. This will always be enhanced by mysteriousness of a disappearance. We as a forum cans discuss the topic and it’s repercussions. If one cares about the plight of others, feel free to post about that topic to bring awareness about it.
It’s pretty simple.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 130
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020