Since we seem to be having a lot of ST threads tonight...

Jennifer Lien, the former ST:Voyager actress -- I'm just now watching "The Gift", the episode of Voyager where her character departs the ship (later to return in the episode "Fury", which I really wish they hadn't done)...

At the time of her departure, there were all sorts of rumors about why she left ranging from ... that they had simply run out of ideas for her character ... to that she was suffering from some sort of drug addiction ... to that she had been sleeping around on set ... to that she was let go to make room for Jeri Ryan / Seven of Nine ... to that the studio said they just had too many characters and had to choose to let someone go, and it came down to between her and Garrett Wang -- but Garrett had just been nominated as one of the most beautiful people by People magazine, so they let Jennifer go instead.

To say her history after Voyager has been deeply troubled is an understatement; it's incredibly sad, as she was quite beautiful back in the day and I think actually an excellent actress (she was also in American History X opposite Ed Norton, and voiced "L" in the Men in Black cartoon). I was hunting for, but can't now seem to find, a YouTube video that showed her out of costume/character (what she looked like in real life without all the makeup and costuming), I think it was back from 1994, and she was just gorgeous and quite vivacious.

Anyway, I hadn't seen this particular story, which I think adds some very interesting insights into what might have actually happened and what was going on with the show at the time, and may be of interest to those who-- like me-- are long-time fans of the show:

[heavy.com]

... I know that Kate Mulgrew was NOT happy about their letting her go-- I think she had viewed Jennifer as a bit of a protege--, and in certain ways ended up taking it out on Jeri Ryan, which of course was quite unfair.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

As Kes, she was the girl-next-door hot!

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Since we seem to be having a lot of ST threads tonight...

Jennifer Lien, the former ST:Voyager actress -- I'm just now watching "The Gift", the episode of Voyager where her character departs the ship (later to return in the episode "Fury", which I really wish they hadn't done)...

At the time of her departure, there were all sorts of rumors about why she left ranging from ... that they had simply run out of ideas for her character ... to that she was suffering from some sort of drug addiction ... to that she had been sleeping around on set ... to that she was let go to make room for Jeri Ryan / Seven of Nine ... to that the studio said they just had too many characters and had to choose to let someone go, and it came down to between her and Garrett Wang -- but Garrett had just been nominated as one of the most beautiful people by People magazine, so they let Jennifer go instead.

To say her history after Voyager has been deeply troubled is an understatement; it's incredibly sad, as she was quite beautiful back in the day and I think actually an excellent actress (she was also in American History X opposite Ed Norton, and voiced "L" in the Men in Black cartoon). I was hunting for, but can't now seem to find, a YouTube video that showed her out of costume/character (what she looked like in real life without all the makeup and costuming), I think it was back from 1994, and she was just gorgeous and quite vivacious.

Anyway, I hadn't seen this particular story, which I think adds some very interesting insights into what might have actually happened and what was going on with the show at the time, and may be of interest to those who-- like me-- are long-time fans of the show:

[heavy.com]

... I know that Kate Mulgrew was NOT happy about their letting her go-- I think she had viewed Jennifer as a bit of a protege--, and in certain ways ended up taking it out on Jeri Ryan, which of course was quite unfair.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Tragic. Addiction and mental illness (both aspects of the mind betraying the person, IMHO) destroy many lives.

What is ST and why do you assume we will all know?

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Ed (modelamac)

Trying to figure out some people is like trying to smell the number 9.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2021 08:18AM by modelamac.

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modelamac
What is ST and why do you assume we will all know?

Maybe because there are at least two other posts about Trek on the front page.

Sorry for the duplicate post, everyone. First time I posted, I got a message about how the forum is moderated and it'd have to be approved. (Mods, feel free to delete the duplicate.)

And yeah, it's truly tragic ... some combination of mental illness, substance abuse, and maybe some family issues and/or "bright lights, big city" factor at play. Not to get this pushed to the other side, but until we stop stigmatizing these sorts of things, and provide people the treatment they need, it'll continue to be a problem.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2021 08:45AM by PeterB.

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PeterB

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modelamac
What is ST and why do you assume we will all know?

Maybe because there are at least two other posts about Trek on the front page.

Sorry for the duplicate post, everyone. First time I posted, I got a message about how the forum is moderated and it'd have to be approved.

Maybe you were referring to space-time:Voyager.

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bazookaman
Maybe you were referring to space-time:Voyager.

space-time is a Voyager?! Which one?

....Meeno Peluce......

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_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

They had an interesting character to write for and they just... didn't.
The writing for Kes was awful. Ms. Lien played what she got just fine - she just didn't get anything interesting, engaging, or intelligent to play.
In addition to that, what they had for Kes brought Neelix down to the level of a soap opera jealousy, when that character could have been developing as well.

They made the right choice on the character to dump given the groundwork they laid... too bad they set themselves up for it from the beginning with crap writing.

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Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
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Eureka, CA

A forgotten credit of hers was with Adam Sandler...

The Buffoon and The Valedicorian
[www.youtube.com]


I forgot how stupid this was...She Played the Valedictorian.

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

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Paul F.
They had an interesting character to write for and they just... didn't.
The writing for Kes was awful. Ms. Lien played what she got just fine - she just didn't get anything interesting, engaging, or intelligent to play.
In addition to that, what they had for Kes brought Neelix down to the level of a soap opera jealousy, when that character could have been developing as well.

They made the right choice on the character to dump given the groundwork they laid... too bad they set themselves up for it from the beginning with crap writing.

I would agree about the lack of good writing for her character. The only real exceptions I can think of are "Warlord" (the one mentioned in the article I posted), "Cold Fire", and "Before and After", all of which put her at the center of their respective episodes and worked incredibly well.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

The problem with ingenues is that there's no room to grow without throwing away the tropes that define the character. In order to do this, you need a brave and talented writer and production managers/directors who embrace change.

In practice, the same lazy writing and cowardice in the production team that leads to the ingenue's incorporation into the story effectively blocks all attempts to subvert it.

The best thing to do in that situation (and the one with the greatest integrity) is to fire the writers and producers and directors and get new ones. The next-best thing is to throw away the character and start over.

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Sarcany
The problem with ingenues is that there's no room to grow without throwing away the tropes that define the character. In order to do this, you need a brave and talented writer and production managers/directors who embrace change.

In practice, the same lazy writing and cowardice in the production team that leads to the ingenue's incorporation into the story effectively blocks all attempts to subvert it.

The best thing to do in that situation (and the one with the greatest integrity) is to fire the writers and producers and directors and get new ones. The next-best thing is to throw away the character and start over.

I don't think she had to stay an ingenue. There was definitely growth/progression of the character, and her being an ingenue didn't define her character (at least, not once her character grew beyond it). Again, I refer to "Warlord" and "Cold Fire"... in which it is very clear that she's no longer an ingenue. My impression is that her character didn't develop farther because of what was going on with the actress ... had she continued, they might have continued to develop her character. But agreed that a big problem was lazy writing and a seeming unwillingness to go very far with it. (I think another big problem: a character that only lives for nine years, were they willing to show her continuous age progression over the course of the series? By the end, she would have been 7-8 years old, and entering the morilogium... though they might have been able to write a way around that.)

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Not just Star Trek actors who suffer from mental illness.

Remember what happened to poor B5 actor Michael O'Hare, whose degenerating mental condition was kept secret until after his death.