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ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 22, 2021 10:14PM
ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident

ABC’s popular procedural “The Rookie” has banned the firing of real guns on the show after a fatal accident Thursday on a movie set in New Mexico.

Shaken up by the events, Alexi Hawley, the showrunner on the cop drama starring Nathan Fillion as a Los Angeles Police Department newcomer, wrote to crew members Friday with the new policy, according to an email seen by The Times.

“There will be no more ‘live’ weapons on the show,” he said, while urging the crew to report anything that made them feel unsafe. Instead, replica toy guns will be used, with computer-generated muzzle flashes added in postproduction, he said.



This as an unfortunate overreaction.

However it's hard to fault the 'better safe than sorry' sentiment and effort.

But clearly there was lack of qualified oversight.

Qualified people who don't oversee properly or at all is not qualified oversight.

They could go double down on training and oversight or even go to 'gas guns' but that's an added cost.

In three seasons they haven't had a firearm mishap that we know of.

I wouldn't trade lives for realism, but there doesn't have to be a tradeoff.

But it's a virtually (lol) foolproof option, easily implemented.






[www.latimes.com]

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Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

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When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 22, 2021 10:52PM
Why bother with live weapons when CGI is available? Seems like muzzle flash is pretty low on the difficulty rating for CGI. And bright muzzle flash is an exaggeration, as I understand it. It's souped up because that's what people expect to see, not what you would really see.

Plus, I was reading that guns used in stage theater are plugged and can't fire anything from the barrel, even by accident. Why not those?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2021 10:54PM by Acer.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 22, 2021 10:54PM
Quote
Acer
Why bother with live weapons when CGI is available? Seems like muzzle flash is pretty low on the difficulty rating for CGI. And bright muzzle flash is an exaggeration, as I understand it. It's souped up because that's what people expect to see, not what you would really see.

honestly, other than military surplus or cheap import steel cased ammo, most domestic rounds use flash-suppressed powder so you don't blind yourself in a night shooting.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 23, 2021 01:55AM
Why bother with live weapons when CGI is available?


That depends on a lot of factors.

I like the realism shown when actors handle firearms other than pointing and going <bang>.

Muzzle flash is only a small component of that.

If nothing is lost in the translation, then the casual 'why bother' isn't a bother.

Despite the tragedy of the Baldwin shooting, countless other productions have seemed to existed without incident.

I'll add that I'm not sure what ABC considers a 'live weapon' to be, but I'll assume it's a 'standard' firearm, not modified in anyway, that will fire 'live ammunition'.

I know what live ammo is, but am not sure how studios and prop masters define it.

I bet I know how armorers define it.

But as far as realism is concerned, if ABC means using a firearm or replica that's been modified to should only blanks with a blank adapter, or a gas gun, I'm fine with that.

What I don't want to see is somebody holding a rubber gun with a CGI muzzle flash, especially if it looks like CGI.

I still say it's an overreaction that can and is easily avoided with proper oversight.



most domestic rounds use flash-suppressed powder so you don't blind yourself in a night shooting.


Sure, but we are talking about dramatic effect in movie and TV.

For a typical firearm, there will be muzzle flash regardless of most ammo used.

Bbl length, caliber, propellant, and ambient light determine how bright that will be.

Add a suppressor and subsonic ammo and it's a different story.

Hollywood does amp it up on occasion for dramatic effect, but it's Hollywood, Jake.

Few TV or movie actors need to train to John Wick level for realism and safety.

But if the realism of expected weapon handling can be preserved, then I'm ok with whatever ABC is going to do.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: October 23, 2021 02:18AM
The root of much if this is the perceived audience demand for “realism”. While it’s true there is a very vocal segment of the audience who are very concerned with a high level of realism, and are quick to criticize any failings they see, I suspect the large majority of viewers would acclimate quickly to an artfully done step back.

I’m guessing what is clumsily described as “toy guns” in the article will actually be Airsoft type replica props; highly detailed, but not actual bullet firing firearms.

Airsoft replicas




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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 23, 2021 04:59AM
there is a certain heft to real items vs props. You can easily tell if the large stone is real, or painted styro. If the talent isn't straining, and muscle bulging, it's fake. And rocks bouncing when they fall?

Same thing with firearms. I can tell by how easily and quickly someone racking a slide is if it has a real recoil assembly. And the way they deal with recoil when it"s fired.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 23, 2021 05:27AM
Just use replicas that cannot possibly fire real ammunition but can only shoot blanks.

As far as heft, that can easily be fixed in a toy. They stage very convincing fisticuffs until you turn off the sound to watch a fight.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 23, 2021 07:25AM
there is a certain heft to real items vs props.

I can tell by how easily and quickly someone racking a slide is if it has a real recoil assembly. And the way they deal with recoil when it"s fired.



Agreed, to all the above.

I've never handled an AirSoft replica, so I have no idea what they're made of.

I agree most of the audiences really don't care, but I do, so despite what studios get wrong, I love what they get right.

By-the-by, I'm very seldom one to sit through a show, telling everybody else what the show got wrong.

I don't have time for that, it pops the bubble of suspended disbelief.

About having real recoil assemblies, in movies Komrade Seagal, while using the de rigueur two hand hold, would often use his left index finger to push the slide back slightly to check for a round in the chamber, as he's about to enter the fray to save the world.

Even though he has the 'kung fu grip' (I know, aiki) I was always suspicious of those scenes.

Possible, yes, but it looked far too easy.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 23, 2021 08:56AM
Quote
Racer X
I can tell by how easily and quickly someone racking a slide is if it has a real recoil assembly. And the way they deal with recoil when it"s fired.

It's pretend shooting in a pretend world.

Pretend there's recoil.



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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: October 23, 2021 09:02AM
Quote
Blankity Blank
The root of much if this is the perceived audience demand for “realism”. While it’s true there is a very vocal segment of the audience who are very concerned with a high level of realism, and are quick to criticize any failings they see, I suspect the large majority of viewers would acclimate quickly to an artfully done step back.

I’m guessing what is clumsily described as “toy guns” in the article will actually be Airsoft type replica props; highly detailed, but not actual bullet firing firearms.

Airsoft replicas

Exactly. Next thing people will want is realistic space travel and realistic super hero fights. Oh, the horror.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: vision63
Date: October 23, 2021 03:58PM
My 100% sympathies to the victims. This is tragic.

But considering how much production there is, it's amazing that so few have been killed.

I remember when Pete Dual accidentally was killed and I, of course remember Brandon Lee. I'm sure there have been others.
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Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 24, 2021 02:09AM
Still an unnecessary overreaction to a rare problem that's easily been avoided countless times by following simple, basic standards, as mentioned in this link from Dennis S' post above.

Just because it's 'pretend' doesn't mean it can't look realistic or that somebody is wrong for wanting that realism.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: ABC bans live weapons from ‘The Rookie’ after Alec Baldwin accident
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: October 24, 2021 10:01AM
Why not stop making shows and movies that promote violence? Seems like a better option.
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